Did the U.S defeat Hitlers Germany?

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  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    UKDave wrote:
    Russian maybe... not German...

    This is what I think. Without US involvement Yalta wouldn't have gone the way it did in shaping post-war Europe. Churchill wouldn't have been able to bully Stalin. Like it or not, the US brought power to the table that wouldn't have otherwise existed.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • truroute
    truroute Posts: 251
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    If Hitler did not get greedy (ie. fight the eastern front) things would be different today...but then again who knows what other countries may have felt the the force of a nuclear bomb (the most disgusting event in the last 100 years IMHO).....

    We really wanna turn this thread into another 'only country to drop the bomb, and if it was right/wrong for the time?

    I really dont understand why that is ALWAYS brought up when it has nothing to do w/ the thread subject. Its like a cheap shot IMO. An easy jab just for hte hell of it.
  • Solat13
    Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    Rockin'InCanada wrote:
    If Hitler did not get greedy (ie. fight the eastern front) things would be different today...but then again who knows what other countries may have felt the the force of a nuclear bomb (the most disgusting event in the last 100 years IMHO).....

    Personally, I think the slaughter of 50 MILLION CIVILIANS by Germany and Japan during WW2 trumps the the use of the atomic bomb in terms of atrocities committed but that's just my opinion.
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  • UKDave
    UKDave Posts: 5,557
    jeffbr wrote:
    This is what I think. Without US involvement Yalta wouldn't have gone the way it did in shaping post-war Europe. Churchill wouldn't have been able to bully Stalin. Like it or not, the US brought power to the table that wouldn't have otherwise existed.

    Yeah I agree, I don't think anyone is arguing there wasn't significant influence in that stage of the war brought in by the US both in the support of the UK effort and in helping the "balance" afterwards. Having a "balanced" Europe has always been part of British foreign policy, means we are less threatened...

    Going back to the reason for the thread (sorry Byrnzie if I'm wrong) it was to counter an inaccurate statement.
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  • PaperPlates
    PaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    I thought in war, noone won.
    Why go home

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  • UKDave
    UKDave Posts: 5,557
    Solat13 wrote:
    Personally, I think the slaughter of 50 MILLION CIVILIANS by Germany and Japan during WW2 trumps the the use of the atomic bomb in terms of atrocities committed but that's just my opinion.

    I visited Auschwitz two weeks ago and I can't help but agree...
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  • truroute
    truroute Posts: 251
    Solat13 wrote:
    Personally, I think the slaughter of 50 MILLION CIVILIANS by Germany and Japan during WW2 trumps the the use of the atomic bomb in terms of atrocities committed but that's just my opinion.


    BUT..BUT..BUT..BUT.. The US dropped the bomb! It was the US!....They dropped the bomb...all thier fault!
  • PaperPlates
    PaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    Solat13 wrote:
    Personally, I think the slaughter of 50 MILLION CIVILIANS by Germany and Japan during WW2 trumps the the use of the atomic bomb in terms of atrocities committed but that's just my opinion.

    But those weren't committed by the US< so they tend to fall to the wayside in these people's minds. ;)
    Why go home

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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    truroute wrote:
    By all accounts, the end started w/ the invasion on D-Day.

    Wrong! The turning point of World war 2 was Stalingrad. The German army never fully recovered from that defeat and was slowly driven back to Berlin. D-Day pales in comparison.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jlew24asu wrote:
    I repeat. without american involvment you might be speaking german.

    I repeat: You are wrong.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Byrnzie wrote:
    I repeat: You are wrong.


    according to you, I'm wrong. but the fact of the matter is, US involvment in WWII helped win the war. understand? good. im glad we cleared that up
  • UKDave
    UKDave Posts: 5,557
    truroute wrote:
    BUT..BUT..BUT..BUT.. The US dropped the bomb! It was the US!....They dropped the bomb...all thier fault!

    Now who's turning it into a discussion about the bomb :rolleyes:
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  • Abuskedti
    Abuskedti Posts: 1,917
    UKDave wrote:
    I visited Auschwitz two weeks ago and I can't help but agree...

    Yes, but are we afraid we might do it again?
  • truroute
    truroute Posts: 251
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Wrong! The turning point of World war 2 was Stalingrad. The German army never fully recovered from that defeat and was slowly driven back to Berlin. D-Day pales in comparison.


    Got proof? Or did you create this fact yourself? Of course the eastern front was weakened tremendously, but dont htink for a second that it was a walk in the park. Seems your only motive in this thread is the down play the important role the the US did playin the WW2.
  • UKDave
    UKDave Posts: 5,557
    Abuskedti wrote:
    Yes, but are we afraid we might do it again?

    Do what again? genocide? it's happening all over the world, the powers that be only tend to get involved in certain cases...

    Or the bomb? god only knows, I hope not.
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  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    jeffbr wrote:
    This is what I think. Without US involvement Yalta wouldn't have gone the way it did in shaping post-war Europe. Churchill wouldn't have been able to bully Stalin. Like it or not, the US brought power to the table that wouldn't have otherwise existed.

    True. Although as I said above the U.S couldn't give a shit about Britain when we were at our most vulnerable during the period 1939 - 1941. The U.S only agreed to assist in cross-Atlantic transportation after bribing Britain out of much of it's colonial assets in the West Indies and elsewhere.
  • truroute
    truroute Posts: 251
    UKDave wrote:
    Now who's turning it into a discussion about the bomb :rolleyes:

    Heh, just a lil' humor.
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Wrong! The turning point of World war 2 was Stalingrad. The German army never fully recovered from that defeat and was slowly driven back to Berlin. D-Day pales in comparison.


    I'd count the cracking of the Enigma code, too.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombe
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    truroute wrote:
    Got proof? Or did you create this fact yourself? Of course the eastern front was weakened tremendously, but dont htink for a second that it was a walk in the park. Seems your only motive in this thread is the down play the important role the the US did playin the WW2.

    The proof is right there for anyone with any interest in the subject to discover. What's shameful is how many in the West are ignorant of these facts, and of how many people still believe that D-day was the pivotal moment of World war 2. I think it's a massive insult to those millions of Russians who were killed in the effort to defeat the German army on the Eastern front.
  • truroute
    truroute Posts: 251
    Byrnzie wrote:
    True. Although as I said above the U.S couldn't give a shit about Britain when we were at our most vulnerable during the period 1939 - 1941. The U.S only agreed to assist in cross-Atlantic transportation after bribing Britain out of much of it's colonial assets in the West Indies and elsewhere.

    So are you pissed that Britain isnt the lone Empire anymore? Sounds like you're getting a little upset because the US has kinda taken your place as world power.

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