Did the U.S defeat Hitlers Germany?

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  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    Nothing much to discuss. Some people buy the Hollywood version of history. I can't think of a single war the US have won, outright. Is there one?


    Grenada? :D
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Jammin909 wrote:
    I am not nationalistic or even all that patriotic but this is thread is over the top. If Western European countries were better equipped to handle the Germans it would have never escalated into a world war.

    World War Two started on September 3rd, 1939, not December 7th, 1941.
  • Jammin909
    Jammin909 Posts: 888
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    World War Two started on September 3rd, 1939, not December 7th, 1941.

    Your point being? My point is the 40 Million Russian deaths would have have ever happened if the European powers could have controled Hitler from the start.
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • truroute
    truroute Posts: 251
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Not just the death count. But the efforts and their overall significance.

    So this is just another random, run-of-the-mill US bashing thread. Huh, never saw it coming.

    Figures.
  • Jammin909
    Jammin909 Posts: 888
    truroute wrote:
    So this is just another random, run-of-the-mill US bashing thread. Huh, never saw it coming.

    Figures.

    Damned if you do, damned if you dont.
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • inmytree
    inmytree Posts: 4,741
    truroute wrote:
    So this is just another random, run-of-the-mill US bashing thread. Huh, never saw it coming.

    Figures.

    yeah, and they "hate freedom", too....those bastards...

    when is everyone going to get...the US rules and everyone else sucks..how dare anyone commit blasphmy against the mighty US....we all know the US is perfect and has never ever never done anything wrong...
  • FinsburyParkCarrots
    FinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Jammin909 wrote:
    Your point being? My point is the 40 Million Russian deaths would have have ever happened if the European powers could have controled Hitler from the start.

    My point being that you phrased the scenario to suggest that things reached a crisis point before the US stepped in and sorted things out, which would be an incorrect summation of what happened in the 1930s and turn of the 1940s. Considering the US didn't enter the fray until 1941-2, arguments against European appeasement of Nazi Germany are a little weak. True, the Munich agreement was wofully ill-judged, but England did ultimately declare war on Germany, following the invasion of Poland, and not as a last resort, just because of a direct Axis attack on home soil.
  • truroute
    truroute Posts: 251
    inmytree wrote:
    yeah, and they "hate freedom", too....those bastards...

    when is everyone going to get...the US rules and everyone else sucks..how dare anyone commit blasphmy against the mighty US....we all know the US is perfect and has never ever never done anything wrong...

    Man, you're pretty good at putting words in my mouth.

    RTFT and then get back to me w/ something more than a 13 yr old's rhretoric.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    truroute wrote:
    So this is just another random, run-of-the-mill US bashing thread. Huh, never saw it coming.

    Figures.

    Read my first post and the post that i was reacting to. It normally helps when joining a thread to know what the subject matter is.

    Edit: Let's try and stick to the subject matter here, rather than decending into personal attacks and the thread being shut down.
  • truroute
    truroute Posts: 251
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Read my first post and the post that i was reacting to. It normally helps when joining a thread to know what the subject matter is.


    I've read the whole thing thank you. And the majority of your posts are all hte same, as in the post I quoted/replied to.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    truroute wrote:
    I've read the whole thing thank you. And the majority of your posts are all hte same, as in the post I quoted/replied to.

    I won't apologise for being consistent.
  • chopitdown
    chopitdown Posts: 2,222
    Byrnzie wrote:
    I won't apologise for being consistent.

    stay the course! ;)
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    jlew24asu wrote:
    wow. america had just as much to do with defeating hitler as any country. very shitty of you to marginalize their deaths becuase some country had a higher death toll. well done

    that's the point. no, america did not. russia had more to do with defeating hitler than america did. and the war could and most likely would have been won without american interference. it may have taken longer, but we were not the deciding factor.

    a stronger argument would be that if we hadnt gotten involved, maybe we'd all be speaking japanese. becos the US DID have quite a bit to do with that front. one wonders how relevant that truly is though. i dont think japan had much interest in anything but taking control of china and keeping us out of it.

    i hope i never bump into you or speedy on the streets here.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    I don't think that anyone can discount the effect the U.S. had against Germany during WWII. Could the U.S. have done it alone? Maybe... maybe not. There were too many other factors involved:
    Hitler's poor decisions:
    Going after London after allied bombers hit Berlin. Had he listened to Goering and kept on bombing RAF Fields and British aircraft manufacturing facilities, the Battle Of Britian may have had very different outcomes.
    Going after Russia. The Russians killed a lot of German soldiers (at extremely heavy losses of their own) but it was the Russian Winter that killed them. The taking on the Eastern Front when the Western Front was not accomplished was a poor, poor decision.
    His decisions on German manufacturing. Had Germany continued its heavy bomber program with the Focke-Wulf Condor, they would have had the ability to reach further into Russia. The Russians moved their heavy manufacturing deep into the Ural Mountains, out of reach of German medium bombers. Hitler did not listen to his generals. He believed his Blitzkrieg war would be able to take land and move across in short hops, instead of long range heavy bombing.
    He also re-directed the Messerschmidt Me-262 to become the first jet bomber. It was designed as a high altitude interceptor to take out slow moving allied bomber formations. The configuration changes to set hard points for bombs on the wings and fuselage changed the flight characteristics of the craft and altered its performance envelope. and, most importantly, delayed its deployment in heavy numbers allowing allied bombing raids to lay waste over Messerschmidt and other German factories.
    Hitler's ego played a part in Hitler's undoing.
    ...
    But, again... no one can discount America's role in WWII. and i think it is a falisy to believe that America, alone, won the war.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Jammin909
    Jammin909 Posts: 888
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    My point being that you phrased the scenario to suggest that things reached a crisis point before the US stepped in and sorted things out, which would be an incorrect summation of what happened in the 1930s and turn of the 1940s. Considering the US didn't enter the fray until 1941-2, arguments against European appeasement of Nazi Germany are a little weak. True, the Munich agreement was wofully ill-judged, but England did ultimately declare war on Germany, following the invasion of Poland, and not as a last resort, just because of a direct Axis attack on home soil.

    OK, then England and France had a couple years to stop Hitler before his troops invaded Russia.

    Anyhow- I really dont care to be honest. A lot of countries contributed to deafeating the Nazi's- it's over. I dont think about Europe's faults as much as you guys dwell over ours...
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    soulsinging wrote:
    a stronger argument would be that if we hadnt gotten involved, maybe we'd all be speaking japanese. becos the US DID have quite a bit to do with that front. one wonders how relevant that truly is though. i dont think japan had much interest in anything but taking control of china and keeping us out of it.

    i hope i never bump into you or speedy on the streets here.

    That's true. America did pay a high price in the Pacific.
  • Byrnzie
    Byrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Jammin909 wrote:
    Anyhow- I really dont care to be honest. A lot of countries contributed to deafeating the Nazi's- it's over. I dont think about Europe's faults as much as you guys dwell over ours...

    Again, I refer you to the first post. Too many Americans appear to harbour the belief that America saved Europe in World war 2. Remember all the furore over France refusing to support America's invasion of Iraq at the U.N in 2003? there was a lot of talk from across the pond about ingratitude e.t.c. Personally, I find it direspectful to those Russians whose efforts crushed the german army in the east - 3/4's of the German army. No inconsiderable feat.

    Just a little quirk of mine!
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Again, I refer you to the first post. Too many Americans appear to harbour the belief that America saved Europe in World war 2. Remember all the furore over France refusing to support America's invasion of Iraq at the U.N in 2003? there was a lot of talk from across the pond about ingratitude e.t.c. Personally, I find it direspectful to those Russians whose efforts crushed the german army in the east - 3/4's of the German army. No inconsiderable feat.

    Just a little quirk of mine!
    ...
    I also think a lot of the results came out of the strong leadership... Churchill, F.D.R. and Stalin (yes, Stalin). That combination was needed to go up against a Hitler.
    Bush, Blair and Putin... we should be glad that there is no Hitler out there... only imbeciles like Hussein, Ahmahajiginamadaji and the Korean short, fat Elvis to deal with.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Jammin909
    Jammin909 Posts: 888
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Again, I refer you to the first post. Too many Americans appear to harbour the belief that America saved Europe in World war 2. Remember all the furore over France refusing to support America's invasion of Iraq at the U.N in 2003? there was a lot of talk from across the pond about ingratitude e.t.c. Personally, I find it direspectful to those Russians whose efforts crushed the german army in the east - 3/4's of the German army. No inconsiderable feat.

    The "ungratefulness" was spun by the US Government, not by it's citizens. The "freedom fries" were isolated incidents that the media sensationalized.
    The less you know, the more you believe.
  • truroute
    truroute Posts: 251
    Jammin909 wrote:
    The "ungratefulness" was spun by the US Government, not by it's citizens. The "freedom fries" were isolated incidents that the media sensationalized.


    Dont you get it? We're all sheep, or "sheeple". Media fed and fattened to beleive everthing that fox news offers in front of us. Everyone but Americans are enlightened to the absolute truth regaurding world events.

    ** YAY STEREOTYPES **

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