I am not nationalistic or even all that patriotic but this is thread is over the top. If Western European countries were better equipped to handle the Germans it would have never escalated into a world war.
World War Two started on September 3rd, 1939, not December 7th, 1941.
World War Two started on September 3rd, 1939, not December 7th, 1941.
Your point being? My point is the 40 Million Russian deaths would have have ever happened if the European powers could have controled Hitler from the start.
So this is just another random, run-of-the-mill US bashing thread. Huh, never saw it coming.
Figures.
yeah, and they "hate freedom", too....those bastards...
when is everyone going to get...the US rules and everyone else sucks..how dare anyone commit blasphmy against the mighty US....we all know the US is perfect and has never ever never done anything wrong...
Your point being? My point is the 40 Million Russian deaths would have have ever happened if the European powers could have controled Hitler from the start.
My point being that you phrased the scenario to suggest that things reached a crisis point before the US stepped in and sorted things out, which would be an incorrect summation of what happened in the 1930s and turn of the 1940s. Considering the US didn't enter the fray until 1941-2, arguments against European appeasement of Nazi Germany are a little weak. True, the Munich agreement was wofully ill-judged, but England did ultimately declare war on Germany, following the invasion of Poland, and not as a last resort, just because of a direct Axis attack on home soil.
yeah, and they "hate freedom", too....those bastards...
when is everyone going to get...the US rules and everyone else sucks..how dare anyone commit blasphmy against the mighty US....we all know the US is perfect and has never ever never done anything wrong...
Man, you're pretty good at putting words in my mouth.
RTFT and then get back to me w/ something more than a 13 yr old's rhretoric.
wow. america had just as much to do with defeating hitler as any country. very shitty of you to marginalize their deaths becuase some country had a higher death toll. well done
that's the point. no, america did not. russia had more to do with defeating hitler than america did. and the war could and most likely would have been won without american interference. it may have taken longer, but we were not the deciding factor.
a stronger argument would be that if we hadnt gotten involved, maybe we'd all be speaking japanese. becos the US DID have quite a bit to do with that front. one wonders how relevant that truly is though. i dont think japan had much interest in anything but taking control of china and keeping us out of it.
i hope i never bump into you or speedy on the streets here.
I don't think that anyone can discount the effect the U.S. had against Germany during WWII. Could the U.S. have done it alone? Maybe... maybe not. There were too many other factors involved:
Hitler's poor decisions:
Going after London after allied bombers hit Berlin. Had he listened to Goering and kept on bombing RAF Fields and British aircraft manufacturing facilities, the Battle Of Britian may have had very different outcomes.
Going after Russia. The Russians killed a lot of German soldiers (at extremely heavy losses of their own) but it was the Russian Winter that killed them. The taking on the Eastern Front when the Western Front was not accomplished was a poor, poor decision.
His decisions on German manufacturing. Had Germany continued its heavy bomber program with the Focke-Wulf Condor, they would have had the ability to reach further into Russia. The Russians moved their heavy manufacturing deep into the Ural Mountains, out of reach of German medium bombers. Hitler did not listen to his generals. He believed his Blitzkrieg war would be able to take land and move across in short hops, instead of long range heavy bombing.
He also re-directed the Messerschmidt Me-262 to become the first jet bomber. It was designed as a high altitude interceptor to take out slow moving allied bomber formations. The configuration changes to set hard points for bombs on the wings and fuselage changed the flight characteristics of the craft and altered its performance envelope. and, most importantly, delayed its deployment in heavy numbers allowing allied bombing raids to lay waste over Messerschmidt and other German factories.
Hitler's ego played a part in Hitler's undoing.
...
But, again... no one can discount America's role in WWII. and i think it is a falisy to believe that America, alone, won the war.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
My point being that you phrased the scenario to suggest that things reached a crisis point before the US stepped in and sorted things out, which would be an incorrect summation of what happened in the 1930s and turn of the 1940s. Considering the US didn't enter the fray until 1941-2, arguments against European appeasement of Nazi Germany are a little weak. True, the Munich agreement was wofully ill-judged, but England did ultimately declare war on Germany, following the invasion of Poland, and not as a last resort, just because of a direct Axis attack on home soil.
OK, then England and France had a couple years to stop Hitler before his troops invaded Russia.
Anyhow- I really dont care to be honest. A lot of countries contributed to deafeating the Nazi's- it's over. I dont think about Europe's faults as much as you guys dwell over ours...
a stronger argument would be that if we hadnt gotten involved, maybe we'd all be speaking japanese. becos the US DID have quite a bit to do with that front. one wonders how relevant that truly is though. i dont think japan had much interest in anything but taking control of china and keeping us out of it.
i hope i never bump into you or speedy on the streets here.
That's true. America did pay a high price in the Pacific.
Anyhow- I really dont care to be honest. A lot of countries contributed to deafeating the Nazi's- it's over. I dont think about Europe's faults as much as you guys dwell over ours...
Again, I refer you to the first post. Too many Americans appear to harbour the belief that America saved Europe in World war 2. Remember all the furore over France refusing to support America's invasion of Iraq at the U.N in 2003? there was a lot of talk from across the pond about ingratitude e.t.c. Personally, I find it direspectful to those Russians whose efforts crushed the german army in the east - 3/4's of the German army. No inconsiderable feat.
Again, I refer you to the first post. Too many Americans appear to harbour the belief that America saved Europe in World war 2. Remember all the furore over France refusing to support America's invasion of Iraq at the U.N in 2003? there was a lot of talk from across the pond about ingratitude e.t.c. Personally, I find it direspectful to those Russians whose efforts crushed the german army in the east - 3/4's of the German army. No inconsiderable feat.
Just a little quirk of mine!
...
I also think a lot of the results came out of the strong leadership... Churchill, F.D.R. and Stalin (yes, Stalin). That combination was needed to go up against a Hitler.
Bush, Blair and Putin... we should be glad that there is no Hitler out there... only imbeciles like Hussein, Ahmahajiginamadaji and the Korean short, fat Elvis to deal with.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Again, I refer you to the first post. Too many Americans appear to harbour the belief that America saved Europe in World war 2. Remember all the furore over France refusing to support America's invasion of Iraq at the U.N in 2003? there was a lot of talk from across the pond about ingratitude e.t.c. Personally, I find it direspectful to those Russians whose efforts crushed the german army in the east - 3/4's of the German army. No inconsiderable feat.
The "ungratefulness" was spun by the US Government, not by it's citizens. The "freedom fries" were isolated incidents that the media sensationalized.
The "ungratefulness" was spun by the US Government, not by it's citizens. The "freedom fries" were isolated incidents that the media sensationalized.
Dont you get it? We're all sheep, or "sheeple". Media fed and fattened to beleive everthing that fox news offers in front of us. Everyone but Americans are enlightened to the absolute truth regaurding world events.
Dont you get it? We're all sheep, or "sheeple". Media fed and fattened to beleive everthing that fox news offers in front of us. Everyone but Americans are enlightened to the absolute truth regaurding world events.
** YAY STEREOTYPES **
I haven't once said that. The British are also as guilty of harbouring a jingoistic belief that 'We' saved Europe and that D-day was the grand occasion and pivotal moment of the 2nd World War.
Still, you surely can't deny that, just as in Britain, about 99% of people probably haven't even heard of Stalingrad, Kursk, or the battle of Moscow? In fact, I'd go so far as to hazard a guess that about 50% of people in Britain and America combined probably don't even know that the Ruskies were involved in World war 2.
I was in Florida last year and popped into a bar where they had freedom fries on the menu! :eek:
...
I liked the idiots that were pouring French wine in the gutter.
...
Hey Assholes... you already paid France for the damn wine! That's YOUR MONEY and YOUR WINE you are polluting the ocean with! Numb nuts.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Haha so how were they? I have never been to a place that serves them, but maybe that’s bc I only eat at McDonalds!!!!!!!!!!!!
I didn't try any. Although I did ask her "So, do these freedom fries taste any different to French fries?" and she replied "We don't use that word in here!", and so I said "What word, 'fries'?" As you can imagine, we didn't exactly hit it off.
I didn't try any. Although I did ask her "So, do these freedom fries taste any different to French fries?" and she replied "We don't use that word in here!", and so I said "What word, 'fries'?" As you can imagine, we didn't exactly hit it off.
LOL. OK, so maybe some ppl do actually take fox news and freedom frieds seriously. But not as many as some would have beleive.
how about some sources for these "facts". US helped defeat Germany during WW2. without American the war would not have been won.
That's bullshit, it would be more accurate to say without the U.S. Germany would be part of Russia.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Man, you're pretty good at putting words in my mouth.
RTFT and then get back to me w/ something more than a 13 yr old's rhretoric.
those were my words, not yours...I was just building upon the common notion that when someone criticizes US actions and policies, both past and present, that "those people" hate freedom and they always blame America...which implies America is perfect and can do no wrong....
and yes, I did read the fuckin thread and I don't appreciate your cussing at me...talk about 13 year old's rhetoric...your pattern of cursing at people shows a great deal about you and you lack of coping skills...
Comments
Grenada?
World War Two started on September 3rd, 1939, not December 7th, 1941.
Your point being? My point is the 40 Million Russian deaths would have have ever happened if the European powers could have controled Hitler from the start.
So this is just another random, run-of-the-mill US bashing thread. Huh, never saw it coming.
Figures.
Damned if you do, damned if you dont.
yeah, and they "hate freedom", too....those bastards...
when is everyone going to get...the US rules and everyone else sucks..how dare anyone commit blasphmy against the mighty US....we all know the US is perfect and has never ever never done anything wrong...
My point being that you phrased the scenario to suggest that things reached a crisis point before the US stepped in and sorted things out, which would be an incorrect summation of what happened in the 1930s and turn of the 1940s. Considering the US didn't enter the fray until 1941-2, arguments against European appeasement of Nazi Germany are a little weak. True, the Munich agreement was wofully ill-judged, but England did ultimately declare war on Germany, following the invasion of Poland, and not as a last resort, just because of a direct Axis attack on home soil.
Man, you're pretty good at putting words in my mouth.
RTFT and then get back to me w/ something more than a 13 yr old's rhretoric.
Read my first post and the post that i was reacting to. It normally helps when joining a thread to know what the subject matter is.
Edit: Let's try and stick to the subject matter here, rather than decending into personal attacks and the thread being shut down.
I've read the whole thing thank you. And the majority of your posts are all hte same, as in the post I quoted/replied to.
I won't apologise for being consistent.
stay the course!
that's the point. no, america did not. russia had more to do with defeating hitler than america did. and the war could and most likely would have been won without american interference. it may have taken longer, but we were not the deciding factor.
a stronger argument would be that if we hadnt gotten involved, maybe we'd all be speaking japanese. becos the US DID have quite a bit to do with that front. one wonders how relevant that truly is though. i dont think japan had much interest in anything but taking control of china and keeping us out of it.
i hope i never bump into you or speedy on the streets here.
Hitler's poor decisions:
Going after London after allied bombers hit Berlin. Had he listened to Goering and kept on bombing RAF Fields and British aircraft manufacturing facilities, the Battle Of Britian may have had very different outcomes.
Going after Russia. The Russians killed a lot of German soldiers (at extremely heavy losses of their own) but it was the Russian Winter that killed them. The taking on the Eastern Front when the Western Front was not accomplished was a poor, poor decision.
His decisions on German manufacturing. Had Germany continued its heavy bomber program with the Focke-Wulf Condor, they would have had the ability to reach further into Russia. The Russians moved their heavy manufacturing deep into the Ural Mountains, out of reach of German medium bombers. Hitler did not listen to his generals. He believed his Blitzkrieg war would be able to take land and move across in short hops, instead of long range heavy bombing.
He also re-directed the Messerschmidt Me-262 to become the first jet bomber. It was designed as a high altitude interceptor to take out slow moving allied bomber formations. The configuration changes to set hard points for bombs on the wings and fuselage changed the flight characteristics of the craft and altered its performance envelope. and, most importantly, delayed its deployment in heavy numbers allowing allied bombing raids to lay waste over Messerschmidt and other German factories.
Hitler's ego played a part in Hitler's undoing.
...
But, again... no one can discount America's role in WWII. and i think it is a falisy to believe that America, alone, won the war.
Hail, Hail!!!
OK, then England and France had a couple years to stop Hitler before his troops invaded Russia.
Anyhow- I really dont care to be honest. A lot of countries contributed to deafeating the Nazi's- it's over. I dont think about Europe's faults as much as you guys dwell over ours...
That's true. America did pay a high price in the Pacific.
Again, I refer you to the first post. Too many Americans appear to harbour the belief that America saved Europe in World war 2. Remember all the furore over France refusing to support America's invasion of Iraq at the U.N in 2003? there was a lot of talk from across the pond about ingratitude e.t.c. Personally, I find it direspectful to those Russians whose efforts crushed the german army in the east - 3/4's of the German army. No inconsiderable feat.
Just a little quirk of mine!
I also think a lot of the results came out of the strong leadership... Churchill, F.D.R. and Stalin (yes, Stalin). That combination was needed to go up against a Hitler.
Bush, Blair and Putin... we should be glad that there is no Hitler out there... only imbeciles like Hussein, Ahmahajiginamadaji and the Korean short, fat Elvis to deal with.
Hail, Hail!!!
The "ungratefulness" was spun by the US Government, not by it's citizens. The "freedom fries" were isolated incidents that the media sensationalized.
Dont you get it? We're all sheep, or "sheeple". Media fed and fattened to beleive everthing that fox news offers in front of us. Everyone but Americans are enlightened to the absolute truth regaurding world events.
** YAY STEREOTYPES **
I was in Florida last year and popped into a bar where they had freedom fries on the menu! :eek:
I haven't once said that. The British are also as guilty of harbouring a jingoistic belief that 'We' saved Europe and that D-day was the grand occasion and pivotal moment of the 2nd World War.
Still, you surely can't deny that, just as in Britain, about 99% of people probably haven't even heard of Stalingrad, Kursk, or the battle of Moscow? In fact, I'd go so far as to hazard a guess that about 50% of people in Britain and America combined probably don't even know that the Ruskies were involved in World war 2.
Haha so how were they? I have never been to a place that serves them, but maybe that’s bc I only eat at McDonalds!!!!!!!!!!!!
Europeans should be thanking Americans' grandparents that they are not speaking German right now?
Nice example of American ignorance if you ask me.
The roll the US played in WO II should not be marginalised, but that same roll is often glorified by Americans, which is just as bad, imo.
And if I should be thanking anyone's grandparents, it's Canadians'.
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I liked the idiots that were pouring French wine in the gutter.
...
Hey Assholes... you already paid France for the damn wine! That's YOUR MONEY and YOUR WINE you are polluting the ocean with! Numb nuts.
Hail, Hail!!!
I didn't try any. Although I did ask her "So, do these freedom fries taste any different to French fries?" and she replied "We don't use that word in here!", and so I said "What word, 'fries'?" As you can imagine, we didn't exactly hit it off.
LOL. OK, so maybe some ppl do actually take fox news and freedom frieds seriously. But not as many as some would have beleive.
That's bullshit, it would be more accurate to say without the U.S. Germany would be part of Russia.
How many countries have you lived in? One, two? Have you ever been outside the US? Besides Canada?
naděje umírá poslední
those were my words, not yours...I was just building upon the common notion that when someone criticizes US actions and policies, both past and present, that "those people" hate freedom and they always blame America...which implies America is perfect and can do no wrong....
and yes, I did read the fuckin thread and I don't appreciate your cussing at me...talk about 13 year old's rhetoric...your pattern of cursing at people shows a great deal about you and you lack of coping skills...