Its Time To talk About Water...

Truthmonger · October 2007

Its hard to read an article like this and not be concerned (I've seen many like this):

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/magazine/21water-t.html

As for desalinisation, its expensive and there's the question of what to do with the piles of brine that result from the process. Dumping it back into the ocean presents just another problem.

Jeanie · October 2007

Not that I can hold it up as a fine example because it isn't, but Australia has been in the grip of a drought for a very long time and we are living with water restrictions now. Perhaps, desalination plants aside, the general population needs to be looking at some of the things we have implimented to capture rainwater, utilize what falls on our properties and the water recycling techniques we employ as individuals. While all that's going on, you probably need to lobby your government for long term solutions as well.

Truthmonger · October 2007

Jeanie wrote:

Not that I can hold it up as a fine example because it isn't,

Well, I'm sure Australia has learned SOMETHING over the last year or two. I heard it was pretty bad there. You know, if someone said to me you gotta only consume half of the water you historically have, I could probably do it without seriously compromising lifestyle. So much is jsut waste.

Jeanie · October 2007

Truthmonger wrote:

Well, I'm sure Australia has learned SOMETHING over the last year or two. I heard it was pretty bad there. You know, if someone said to me you gotta only consume half of the water you historically have, I could probably do it without seriously compromising lifestyle. So much is jsut waste.

Well, perhaps our government is FINALLY starting to understand just how dire the situation is. And there have been inititives to translate that to the general population, but we are far from sorted on the issue.

Water is going to be an ongoing problem for us and there really hasn't been the level of commitment that we need from either government or the general population. And what is going to happen is that the water companies are just going to keep putting the price up to curb consumption while they make a pretty packet it on it.

I have to say that on our water bill we are well below the consumption of a water efficient household and I can't say that I feel like my lifestyle has been compromised much at all. I've shortened my shower time to four minutes. I re-use the water from the rinse cycle on the washing machine by catching it in a bucket and pouring it on the garden. We don't water the garden at all. I don't wash the car at home. I use an electric toothbrush so the tap isn't running while I clean my teeth, just for rinsing. I use liquid handsoap so I'm not running water endlessly to clean my hands. When I rinse out containers for the recycle that water is poured on the garden. I use the half flush most of the time in the toilet.

That's just my meagre effort. Not much by comparison to some people.
We still don't have a tank or one of those recycle thingies in the laundry. And we don't have a grey water system. All things I would love to have but cannot afford at this point.

The government, both Federal and State, have not come to the party fast enough and so they're hustling some really pissy ideas now to try to dig themselves out of the big dry hole they've dug.

We are currently in Stage 3a Water Restrictions here in Victoria, but I'm sure that will be upgraded soon enough. The summer is coming and while we had some rain it wasn't nearly enough.

Anyway, here are what Stage 3a Water Restrictions entail :

http://www.ourwater.vic.gov.au/ourwater/dsenowof.nsf/childdocs/-1C8A02615F767737CA257244007B07F1.html

And here is the water website showing what the government in Victoria is planning for the future:

http://www.ourwater.vic.gov.au/ourwater/index.html

catefrances · October 2007

Jeanie wrote:

Not that I can hold it up as a fine example because it isn't, but Australia has been in the grip of a drought for a very long time and we are living with water restrictions now. Perhaps, desalination plants aside, the general population needs to be looking at some of the things we have implimented to capture rainwater, utilize what falls on our properties and the water recycling techniques we employ as individuals. While all that's going on, you probably need to lobby your government for long term solutions as well.

how do i fill up my rainwater tank if it's not raining?

know1 · October 2007

Truthmonger wrote:

Its disappearing like crazy, yet we use it like there's no fucking tomorrow (at least here in N. America). I don't wanna get into a debate about whether its a natural phenomenon or a man-made dilemma. That's moot at this point. But i do wanna discuss why current water conservation efforts are so laughable.

Consider : When are we going to SERIOUSLY curtail our use of water ? When will govt's stop allowing explosive growth in areas that are already short on water - especially in the U.S.? Will it ever reach the point of municipalities rationing water to its citizens ? If citizens of a particular jurisdiction are irresponsible with this resource, is it fair for such people to then go knocking on the doors of other jurisdictions to ask for more ?

It's disappearing "like crazy"?

810wmb · October 2007

jlew24asu wrote:

all this talk has made me thirsty

yr making my day here!

PaperPlates · October 2007

Dont sweat the water shortage. If Al Gore's right, the melting ice caps will have us swimming in it. No pun intended.

Jeanie · October 2007

catefrances wrote:

how do i fill up my rainwater tank if it's not raining?

Guess you guys have different needs there in NSW cate.

Did you see the piece they did recently on Bourke's Backyard Special about water? There was some really great tips there on what to do to get water and how to utilize it once it was on your property.

When we don't get enough rain out at the bush place we have to buy water in to fill the tank.

catefrances · October 2007

Jeanie wrote:

Guess you guys have different needs there in NSW cate.

Did you see the piece they did recently on Bourke's Backyard Special about water? There was some really great tips there on what to do to get water and how to utilize it once it was on your property.

When we don't get enough rain out at the bush place we have to buy water in to fill the tank.

WHAT!? you BUY water to fill your RAIN tank? where is that water coming from?

i dont have a garden, and in the 11 years ive been in my humble abode, have never watered even the smallest blade of grass, cause as you know we got no water,

so theres no need for me to watch don bourke's rant about water conservation re: my property.

i never quite understood the fascination for a lovely green lawn in australia. must be an english thing we haven't gotten over yet. i mean come on aussies, this is one of the driest places on earth not gloucestershire.

Jeanie · October 2007

catefrances wrote:

WHAT!? you BUY water to fill your RAIN tank? where is that water coming from?

i dont have a garden, and in the 11 years ive been in my humble abode, have never watered even the smallest blade of grass, cause as you know we got no water, so theres no need for me to watch don bourke's rant about water conservation re: my property.

i never quite understood the fascination for a lovely green lawn in australia. must be an english thing we haven't gotten over yet. i mean come on aussies, this is one of the driest places on earth not gloucestershire.

It's pretty standard practice in the bush to buy in water cate. Actually it's fairly standard in arid areas. The only water we have at the bush place is tank water, so if it springs a leak or something manages to die in there the whole lot has to be cleaned out and water bought in from a water man. And if it's a bad year for rain water and the tank doesn't fill, then yeah, we buy in water. Actually if we had a bushfire we'd probably have to use the tank, which would empty pretty quickly so I guess if we survived it we'd have to buy in water then too. I don't know where they get it, I'd assume one of the catchment reservoirs. Guy comes in his tanker and fills it up. It's been a while since we had to buy it so I'm not sure what the cost is. But OLS would know. He has to buy in his water. I'm assuming the cost would be similar to America are at the moment because of the exchange rate. The water from the creek is not fit for human consumption, so we can't drink it or wash in it. Might come in handy if there was a fire but I suspect if there was a fire the creek would be down on account of the summer anyway so it'd be so low that we'd never get enough water out of it anyway.

You've seen my place. I hardly think we're rabid greenthumbs.

We recycle the water and pour it on the garden so the few things we do have don't die in the dry but if we need to conserve water to the extent that we're not washing clothes or rinsing out recycle then the garden would miss out. But I've NEVER watered a lawn in my life and I'm not about to start now!

I'd love to have like my neighbour, who has a little bush type setting in her front yard but it would take a fair bit of work to remove the lawn and plant everything so I'm not sure we'd be conserving anything that way either.

Truthmonger · October 2007

know1 wrote:

It's disappearing "like crazy"?

Yes. There is great concern about the Great Lakes, for example. I watched this show last week (can't remember which one), and they siad that Lake Superior had dropped something like 15 inches in a ridiculously short period of time. Its like someone pulled a plug. But check out other areas like Lake Mead or Lake Lanier in Georgia. They're drying up man.

That Times article I posted earlier was interesting. It stated that if we were to now have the devastating kind of droughts that we've have historically, it would be game over for some areas. It said some of the droughts have gone on for 60 years or more, something that would be catastrophic now because there's simply no reserves to count on, and because we're suckin' up too much of the shit. One expert said the chances of major problems developing were much likely than unlikely.

catefrances · October 2007

Jeanie wrote:

It's pretty standard practice in the bush to buy in water cate. Actually it's fairly standard in arid areas. The only water we have at the bush place is tank water, so if it springs a leak or something manages to die in there the whole lot has to be cleaned out and water bought in from a water man. And if it's a bad year for rain water and the tank doesn't fill, then yeah, we buy in water. Actually if we had a bushfire we'd probably have to use the tank, which would empty pretty quickly so I guess if we survived it we'd have to buy in water then too. I don't know where they get it, I'd assume one of the catchment reservoirs. Guy comes in his tanker and fills it up. It's been a while since we had to buy it so I'm not sure what the cost is. But OLS would know. He has to buy in his water. I'm assuming the cost would be similar to America are at the moment because of the exchange rate. The water from the creek is not fit for human consumption, so we can't drink it or wash in it. Might come in handy if there was a fire but I suspect if there was a fire the creek would be down on account of the summer anyway so it'd be so low that we'd never get enough water out of it anyway.

You've seen my place. I hardly think we're rabid greenthumbs. We recycle the water and pour it on the garden so the few things we do have don't die in the dry but if we need to conserve water to the extent that we're not washing clothes or rinsing out recycle then the garden would miss out. But I've NEVER watered a lawn in my life and I'm not about to start now! I'd love to have like my neighbour, who has a little bush type setting in her front yard but it would take a fair bit of work to remove the lawn and plant everything so I'm not sure we'd be conserving anything that way either.

just ignorant cityfolk here. you know our water appears as if by magic every time i turn the tap on.

Jeanie · October 2007

catefrances wrote:

just ignorant cityfolk here. you know our water appears as if by magic every time i turn the tap on.

TRUST ME!

This ignorant city girl did catch on REAL quick that first Summer we ran out of water on account of my showering habits!

Now I'm eyeing off the tank every weekend, wondering if it'll see us through the Summer. But there's no hot water at the moment so that is helping IMMENSELY with water conservation!

transplant · October 2007

Jeanie wrote:

Not that I can hold it up as a fine example because it isn't, but Australia has been in the grip of a drought for a very long time and we are living with water restrictions now. Perhaps, desalination plants aside, the general population needs to be looking at some of the things we have implimented to capture rainwater, utilize what falls on our properties and the water recycling techniques we employ as individuals. While all that's going on, you probably need to lobby your government for long term solutions as well.

nah, I think that is a fine example.

Moving to Colorado from Illinois where I didn't think 1 second about water supply was a little eye opening. 80 percent of the water used in the Colorado front range comes straight from the snow pack. No snow, no water. In 2002 we had a crappy snow season, we had a drought and in comes the water restrictions. It most certainly wasn't a big deal and in no way was I concerned about where my next shower was coming from, but it was odd that we were only allowed to water our lawn on certain days for example. It was strange that most of the lakes around were literally at 40 percent capacity when just a year earlier they were full. there are certain rivers I need to fish since they are threatned to disappear, all depending on the snow season.

Our water bill per month is more than our electricity bill. Now I accept that is how it is. I do my part, take 'Navy' showers, we use old bath water for the flowers, turn the water off while brushing and minor things like that. We use the kids saying 'If it is yellow let it mellow...' for flushing the toilet. I drive my wife crazy though she plays along.

What needs to change here is the antiquated water laws. 91% of the water usage in Colorado statewide goes for Ag use. There are water laws that just need updating and there needs to be more efficient ways to water crops for example. I mean only 9% is used for your day to day household city activites (including watering Golf Courses that everybody loves to point out as being the problem). Hell, there is even talk about a 9 hole course that will strictly use artificial turf.

That said, I won't be the one worried per se about our water supply, but you can be damn sure I am aware of it and keep my eye on the snowpack during the winter.

Jeanie · October 2007

transplant wrote:

nah, I think that is a fine example.

Moving to Colorado from Illinois where I didn't think 1 second about water supply was a little eye opening. 80 percent of the water used in the Colorado front range comes straight from the snow pack. No snow, no water. In 2002 we had a crappy snow season, we had a drought and in comes the water restrictions. It most certainly wasn't a big deal and in no way was I concerned about where my next shower was coming from, but it was odd that we were only allowed to water our lawn on certain days for example. It was strange that most of the lakes around were literally at 40 percent capacity when just a year earlier they were full. there are certain rivers I need to fish since they are threatned to disappear, all depending on the snow season.

Our water bill per month is more than our electricity bill. Now I accept that is how it is. I do my part, take 'Navy' showers, we use old bath water for the flowers, turn the water off while brushing and minor things like that. We use the kids saying 'If it is yellow let it mellow...' for flushing the toilet. I drive my wife crazy though she plays along.

What needs to change here is the antiquated water laws. 91% of the water usage in Colorado statewide goes for Ag use. There are water laws that just need updating and there needs to be more efficient ways to water crops for example. I mean only 9% is used for your day to day household city activites (including watering Golf Courses that everybody loves to point out as being the problem). Hell, there is even talk about a 9 hole course that will strictly use artificial turf.

That said, I won't be the one worried per se about our water supply, but you can be damn sure I am aware of it and keep my eye on the snowpack during the winter.

Yeah, we've had that whole debate going on here too. Especially around the "food bowl" of the Murray Darling.
I think that's what pisses me off about it. Up until a few years ago they were using drinking water from the water catchments to flush out the Burnley Tunnel every day. And industry STILL isn't required to impliment its own water storage, which would go a long way to fixing problems. I really have to wonder at a country as dry as Australia having cotton crops! I mean c'mon! They've had a lot of rain in the north apparently, flooding even, but that's not what happened here and not bagging the farmers but seriously when will sustainable farming practice begin and WHY do we need to be supplying the rest of the world with cotton and the like when we cannot farm it here, clearly. But then up until a few years ago it was illegal to have a rainwater tank in a suburban residence. :rolleyes: I mean for goodness sake! What IDIOT came up with that plan? I see us "joe public" racing around doing our pissy little bit, and not all of us I might add, they've even got a water patrol coming around and issuing on the spot fines if you're found doing the wrong thing but nobody seems to be policing those that are the biggest users or attempting to stop them using unsustainable methods. I'm not against farming and agriculture obviously but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that some things simply cannot continue if we want to continue to live on this continent. We're going to end up like Africa if we keep this up. I love how they've got plans for recycled effluent to be pumped into the drinking water supply in Queensland but no talk of first using that kind of water on crops.
Anyway, there was an excellent snow season this year from what I saw reported but still the rivers are down. It isn't going to be enough to sustain us. And if they keep logging the way they do and not paying attention to what is needed for rain to happen as well as what is needed to stop run off, then we're all gonna end up living out Tank Girl here in Australia. Well that's my thoughts anyway.

RolandTD20Kdrummer · October 2007

I wonder if everything living in water can filter out all the toxins to survive?

Oh right....they can't.

hippiemom · October 2007

Ok, time for the stupid question of the day.

We don't use much water outdoors ... we don't wash our cars until they're filthy, and when the lawn stops growing we don't water it, we say "Yay, no mowing!" Most of my water wasting is long showers, letting the water run constantly while washing dishes, etc.

I live less than a mile from Lake Erie. When I take a shower, the water goes down the drain, through our water treatment plant, and back into Lake Erie, so how is it "wasted"?

Drowned Out · October 2007

hippiemom wrote:

Ok, time for the stupid question of the day.

We don't use much water outdoors ... we don't wash our cars until they're filthy, and when the lawn stops growing we don't water it, we say "Yay, no mowing!" Most of my water wasting is long showers, letting the water run constantly while washing dishes, etc.

I live less than a mile from Lake Erie. When I take a shower, the water goes down the drain, through our water treatment plant, and back into Lake Erie, so how is it "wasted"?

I was wondering the exact same thing myself.

Of course it's probably a helluva lot worse off for having touched us, our pipes, sewers, chems etc....but most of it's still going back to the source.......right?

Jeanie · October 2007

hippiemom wrote:

Ok, time for the stupid question of the day.

We don't use much water outdoors ... we don't wash our cars until they're filthy, and when the lawn stops growing we don't water it, we say "Yay, no mowing!" Most of my water wasting is long showers, letting the water run constantly while washing dishes, etc.

I live less than a mile from Lake Erie. When I take a shower, the water goes down the drain, through our water treatment plant, and back into Lake Erie, so how is it "wasted"?

That's probably a different situation to here Mom. Our water is down the drain out to the sewerage and then pumped into the bay. That's a waste. Plus we are all trying to find more than one use for it. So we're all running about looking at ways we can use our "grey water". So I think it would be ok for me to wash my car using the water from the washing machine but we're not allowed to use water from the tap to do that. And I'd love to see the water from my shower piped to the toilet cistern to use for flushing the toilet.

Its Time To talk About Water...

Comments

Categories