Ecoli comes from poop. You are drinking poop water. Recycled grey water put through an RO system would have less poop in it than the stuff your drinking now.
Salt water is a solution of both salt and water. One way to get salt out of solution is to boil the water and capture the evaporation through condensation. The problem with this method is, it takes a shit ton of energy to boil off enough water for consumption and it takes more energy to force the evaporated vapor to condense. Reverse osmosis is another method. It is a system of having a very thin membrane and two different concentrations of water on both sides of this membrane. Pressure is exerted on the highly concentrated water(salt water) forcing it through the membrane to the less concentrated membrane leaving the salt molecules behind. The problem with this method is those membrane cartridges are very expensive and do not last very long. As well the amount of pressure required is very large and it takes alot of energy to pressurize the one side of the system.
hmmm so what your telling me is Salt water is a solution of both salt and water. thats very interesting. :rolleyes:
not sure if I can take the rest of your post seriously but you've explained a process that undoubtedly can be improved. hopefully it will
Ecoli comes from poop. You are drinking poop water. Recycled grey water put through an RO system would have less poop in it than the stuff your drinking now.
Where did I say I was drinking tap water?
I aint drinking shit.
And you seem to have completely missed the point. But then I'm starting to understand that about you.
Its disappearing like crazy, yet we use it like there's no fucking tomorrow (at least here in N. America). I don't wanna get into a debate about whether its a natural phenomenon or a man-made dilemma. That's moot at this point. But i do wanna discuss why current water conservation efforts are so laughable.
Consider : When are we going to SERIOUSLY curtail our use of water ? When will govt's stop allowing explosive growth in areas that are already short on water - especially in the U.S.? Will it ever reach the point of municipalities rationing water to its citizens ? If citizens of a particular jurisdiction are irresponsible with this resource, is it fair for such people to then go knocking on the doors of other jurisdictions to ask for more ?
DUDE; you have no idea about the mess we're about to enter. look at las vegas. fountains all over yet they don't have water. vegas is trying to take water from up north and is putting in a pipeline.
here's my question:
our fish and game departments regulate the size of the herds based on the resourses and habitat available. if they don't; ALL the animals will starve.
so why can't we regulate growth in cities and states? in the past; arizona and nevada sold water to california. now those states have grown and need that water so california cannot support it's population. that's why there's a big push in california to distill sea water.
too bad it's so late. i've got a lot of information on this subject. once again; you know the water situation. why do you need the government to tell you to conserve? people are plain stupid (not referring to you). again, look at vegas. people know they have a water problem yet they're building houses like there's no tomorrow. if you know there's no water; why are you building there?
hmmm so what your telling me is Salt water is a solution of both salt and water. thats very interesting. :rolleyes:
not sure if I can take the rest of your post seriously but you've explained a process that undoubtedly can be improved. hopefully it will
Salt water being a solution is the underlying principle of the problem... You asked.
Scientists from every century of human existence have been trying to remove salt from water and have found no efficient way of doing so. It really has been at the top of scientific matters, and if a breakthrough were found would change the course of human existence forever. But nothing has been found... How many people have died from thirst while floating on top of a gigantic mass of water?
And the answer is ground water but it seems that could become a big problem in about 20 years.
hello??? wells are being condemned constantly. the chemicals we've used over the last 100 years have seeped into the aquifer. most of the wells in my area have been condemned. that's why i'm outta here.
DID YOU KNOW...? FACTS AND FIGURES ABOUT WATER AND SALINIZATION/DESALINATION
It is estimated that some 30% of the world's irrigated areas suffers from salinity problems and remediation is seen to be very costly.
Poor drainage and irrigation practices have led to waterlogging and salinization of about 10% of the world's irrigated lands, thereby reducing productivity.
There are significant areas of the globe where serious soil and groundwater salinization are present or have developed as a result of:
- rising groundwater tables, associated with the introduction of inefficient irrigation with imported surface water in areas of inadequate natural drainage
- natural salinity having been mobilized from the landscape, consequent upon vegetation clearing for farming development with increased rates of groundwater recharge
- excessive disturbance of natural groundwater salinity through uncontrolled well construction and pumping.
Waterlogging and salinization in large-scale irrigation projects are often the result of unavailable drainage infrastructure, which was not included in the engineering design in order to make projects look economically more attractive. These problems are generally associated with large-scale irrigation development under arid and semi-arid conditions, as in the Indus (Pakistan), the Tigris-Euphrates (Middle East) and the Nile (eastern Africa) river basins. The solutions to these problems are known, but their implementation is costly.
With population growth and concerns about water scarcity increasing, several countries, especially in the Middle East region, are developing desalination plants to convert saline water (e.g. sea-water, brackish water or treated wastewater) into freshwater.
The global market for desalination currently stands at about US $35 billion annually and could double over the next 15 years.
2002 there were about 12,500 desalination plants around the world in 120 countries. They produce some 14 million m³/day of freshwater, which is less than 1% of total world consumption.
The most important users of desalinated water are in the Middle East, (mainly Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Bahrain), which uses about 70% of worldwide capacity; and in North Africa (mainly Libya and Algeria), which uses about 6% of worldwide capacity.
Among industrialized countries, the United States is one of the most important users of desalinated water (6.5%), especially in California and parts of Florida.
And you seem to have completely missed the point. But then I'm starting to understand that about you.
You call it fresh drinking water... and refer to the creek water as not fit for human consumption, where the hauled water you get at the bush place is.
hello??? wells are being condemned constantly. the chemicals we've used over the last 100 years have seeped into the aquifer. most of the wells in my area have been condemned. that's why i'm outta here.
Good point. Aquifers that have hundreds of wells tapped into them are being polluted because they are not capped off properly after they lose their water production ability. Many wells are actually found below grade level so that any and all runoff goes down into the underground streams. More poop going into our waters sources.
The fear of recycled water is all in your head. I dare you to taste a sample of recycled water and a sample of treated water fresh from the storages and tell me that you can tell the difference. Recycled water is safe as far as I understand. The only potential risk that I've ever heard anyone argue is that some things like hormones might not be destroyed by the treatment process. That's easily fixed with ozone treatment anyway.
I for one, would be very happy to drink recycled sewerage water. . . and I'm a microbiologist . It makes far more sense to recycle water in the cites than to try to send it to agricultural areas. I'd need to see some numbers to be sure, but I can't imagine that it would be more efficient to send recycled water from Sydney or Melbourne to the irrigation areas in the M/D than it would be to keep it in the municipal water system.
As for growing rice and cotton. . . you're probably right, but until there are incentives for farmers to make a living doing something else, they'll continue to do what they can to produce a crop that is worth something.
hi scott. nice to see you. if anyone knows; you do. las vagas is building a pipeline for water so i'll keep you up with it. i think the big problem here is the chemicals that have leached into the aquifer. the coming problem is when the seas enter the cities along the coast and mix with sewage; oil; and chemicals. just as what happend in new orleans. the wells we've been emptying will then re-fill with this toxic water.
You call it fresh drinking water... and refer to the creek water as not fit for human consumption, where the hauled water you get at the bush place is.
YUP! And that would be because the creek water has been tested and we've been advised that it's not fit for human consumption as opposed to the water that is brought in which also has to be tested and approved as fit for human consumption.
Seriously do you even have a point? I mean aside from deciding that you'd like to have a go at me today and being a condescending piece of work?
YUP! And that would be because the creek water has been tested and we've been advised that it's not fit for human consumption as opposed to the water that is brought in which also has to be tested and approved as fit for human consumption.
Seriously do you even have a point? I mean aside from deciding that you'd like to have a go at me today and being a condescending piece of work?
Desalination is not going to be a viable alternative. It is very expensive, requiring huge water pressures, large amounts of energy, precise membrane technologies, and a shit ton of servicing. As well it is slow, a large plant still produces very little potable water.
In North America it will be mandated in the near future that you need duel flush toilets that use very little water to flush away #1. Storage type hot water heaters will be replaced with demand style. Grey water recycling systems will be required. ETC. All this stuff has been around for a very long time, its just typical that North America is one of the last to admit/deal with the problem.
Water is wasted by pollutants. Any above ground water source, like lakes and rivers, are far more polluted than rain water and below ground sources. When water is taken from a lake it is taken from a specific layer of the water/pollutant mixture. As water is used chemicals are added that are naturally coherant to the water molecule, making them more dense and sinking to the bottom. The opposite occurs with molecules that repel the water molecule, they float unless they are naturally more dense. Water treatment facilities work to floculate, scrub or skim most of these impurities out, but the shear amount of waste created makes it impossible for the quality of waste to be where it should be.
The majority of fresh water, recent rain or snow melt, is being used by agriculture. Fresh water lakes are drying up, aquifers are drying up, the glaciers are melting(becoming salinated)... A big ditch is going to be built from Northern Canada to the Eastern USA soon. Maybe along the American Union highway...
ever hear of distillation? i've seen several solar distillers which are passive and don't use energy. they're not even expensive.
the water used for agriculture is from wells. we cannot use polluted water for agriculture because the crops will absorb the pollutants. even if it's hay to feed cattle; the cattle then absorb it. check any states fishing regulations and you'll find a safe limit of fish that can be eaten. some lakes you can't eat anything out of.
the problem with many of these chemicals is when you distill the water; the steam must rise 32" to remove these chemicals.
rain water and snow is polluted. don't forget it passed through a polluted atmosphere and collected those pollutants as it fell.
it's late so i'm just throwing out facts. i'll elaborate tomorrow if you wish.
DUDE; you have no idea about the mess we're about to enter. look at las vegas. fountains all over yet they don't have water. vegas is trying to take water from up north and is putting in a pipeline.
here's my question:
our fish and game departments regulate the size of the herds based on the resourses and habitat available. if they don't; ALL the animals will starve.
so why can't we regulate growth in cities and states? in the past; arizona and nevada sold water to california. now those states have grown and need that water so california cannot support it's population. that's why there's a big push in california to distill sea water.
too bad it's so late. i've got a lot of information on this subject. once again; you know the water situation. why do you need the government to tell you to conserve? people are plain stupid (not referring to you). again, look at vegas. people know they have a water problem yet they're building houses like there's no tomorrow. if you know there's no water; why are you building there?
We need the government to regulate it because most people ARE just plain stupid. You answered your own question .... they're building like crazy in cities that already have water shortages and no idea how to solve them. Left to their own devices, greedy developers will keep building, and stupid people will keep buying.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Salt water being a solution is the underlying principle of the problem... You asked.
Scientists from every century of human existence have been trying to remove salt from water and have found no efficient way of doing so. It really has been at the top of scientific matters, and if a breakthrough were found would change the course of human existence forever. But nothing has been found... How many people have died from thirst while floating on top of a gigantic mass of water?
maybe I have a little more confidence in human determination to figure it out. just because a perfected method hasnt been discovered doesnt mean people have stopped trying.
and I'm sure every person who was caught floating out on the ocean has died. pocket size Desalination machines havent been invented yet. but great question, glad you asked.
ever hear of distillation? i've seen several solar distillers which are passive and don't use energy. they're not even expensive.
the water used for agriculture is from wells. we cannot use polluted water for agriculture because the crops will absorb the pollutants. even if it's hay to feed cattle; the cattle then absorb it. check any states fishing regulations and you'll find a safe limit of fish that can be eaten. some lakes you can't eat anything out of.
the problem with many of these chemicals is when you distill the water; the steam must rise 32" to remove these chemicals.
rain water and snow is polluted. don't forget it passed through a polluted atmosphere and collected those pollutants as it fell.
it's late so i'm just throwing out facts. i'll elaborate tomorrow if you wish.
Traditional distillation is about as viable as desalinization. Solar power has its limits and I would assume that these limits pertain to the solar distillers as well.
My family drinks 2 gallons of water a day, do you know how many square feet of panel I would need(assuming the sun as shining) to saciate our thirst?
YUP! And that would be because the creek water has been tested and we've been advised that it's not fit for human consumption as opposed to the water that is brought in which also has to be tested and approved as fit for human consumption.
Seriously do you even have a point? I mean aside from deciding that you'd like to have a go at me today and being a condescending piece of work?
i don't think the bloke knows what he's talking about. that seems to be the problem. he states mandates and laws nobody has ever heard of. and taking water from a specific layer of a lake??? the inlet pipe is placed so sediments don't get into it. nobody goes out and tests layers of a lake. lakes turn-over due to temperature changes. lakes do have thermal layers but they are constantly changing. i don't want to knit-pick all the rediculous things he's said here. i say just ignore him love. just like a mosquito; he'll go away.
Traditional distillation is about as viable as desalinization. Solar power has its limits and I would assume that these limits pertain to the solar distillers as well.
My family drinks 2 gallons of water a day, do you know how many square feet of panel I would need(assuming the sun as shining) to saciate our thirst?
solar has no limitations. i've been 100% solar for a long time and i've not been limited in any way. the problem is educating the public to get those ideas about the older solar applications out of their heads and introduce them to the modern solar applications.
a simple single basin passive solar distiller can provide you with 4 gallons of distilled water each day. (taken from "SOLARIZE YOUR HOME; PAGE 56.) it's a small unit; about 2" x 4' you place in the sun. because you store the extra water; that is what you use when the sun isn't shining.
i don't think the bloke knows what he's talking about. that seems to be the problem. he states mandates and laws nobody has ever heard of. and taking water from a specific layer of a lake??? the inlet pipe is placed so sediments don't get into it. nobody goes out and tests layers of a lake. lakes turn-over due to temperature changes. lakes do have thermal layers but they are constantly changing. i don't want to knit-pick all the rediculous things he's said here. i say just ignore him love. just like a mosquito; he'll go away.
I am unconcerned. The initial response was from a reply I made to Scott anyway regarding the government plan to pump recycled effluent (recycled by reverse osmosis) into the natural drinking supply. Scott knows my thoughts on the government. And I've already clarified regarding my issues with the plan. I suspect tis just boredom and a desire to be noticed.
Anyway, it's a really interesting subject which I feel strongly about and I'd just be happy to see governments around the world acknowledge there is a problem and come up with sensible REAL solutions.
We can play this reverse osmosis bullshit at a later date and as I said to scott, let's use that water for all the other possible uses before we get to drinking it. AND no need to be pumping it into the natural supply. Sort those things and I'll consider it. Find a way for me to reverse osmosis my own effluent and I'll consider it further. Otherwise I'm against it.
i don't think the bloke knows what he's talking about. that seems to be the problem. he states mandates and laws nobody has ever heard of. and taking water from a specific layer of a lake??? the inlet pipe is placed so sediments don't get into it. nobody goes out and tests layers of a lake. lakes turn-over due to temperature changes. lakes do have thermal layers but they are constantly changing. i don't want to knit-pick all the rediculous things he's said here. i say just ignore him love. just like a mosquito; he'll go away.
Maybe you should "think" again... Every state/county/municipality are making water conservation laws. Right right...and nobody takes water samples thats right.
maybe I have a little more confidence in human determination to figure it out. just because a perfected method hasnt been discovered doesnt mean people have stopped trying.
and I'm sure every person who was caught floating out on the ocean has died. pocket size Desalination machines havent been invented yet. but great question, glad you asked.
actually; solar pocket desalination units are a part of most survival packets for those that may be stranded at sea. they've been around for a long time.
actually; solar pocket desalination units are a part of most survival packets for those that may be stranded at sea. they've been around for a long time.
Yeah, it's hard to tell, (he has such a great poker face! ) but me thinks little jlew was being sarcastic with this post.
Maybe you should "think" again... Every state/county/municipality are making water conservation laws. Right right...and nobody takes water samples thats right.
water samples are taken every day. and municipailties ARE making conservation laws FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. i can't imagine a MANDATE where i have to rip out my loo and replace it before the toilet police get here.
every lake is tested and thus the eating restrictions i talked about earlier. but if you want to stress your point; how thick are these layers? if i am in a lake; how do i identify a layer? can you back up this layer theory with a scientific link that proves water is taken from these layers? if it's true; it should be easy to find.
Comments
Ecoli comes from poop. You are drinking poop water. Recycled grey water put through an RO system would have less poop in it than the stuff your drinking now.
You got to spend it all
hmmm so what your telling me is Salt water is a solution of both salt and water. thats very interesting. :rolleyes:
not sure if I can take the rest of your post seriously but you've explained a process that undoubtedly can be improved. hopefully it will
Where did I say I was drinking tap water?
I aint drinking shit.
And you seem to have completely missed the point. But then I'm starting to understand that about you.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
DUDE; you have no idea about the mess we're about to enter. look at las vegas. fountains all over yet they don't have water. vegas is trying to take water from up north and is putting in a pipeline.
here's my question:
our fish and game departments regulate the size of the herds based on the resourses and habitat available. if they don't; ALL the animals will starve.
so why can't we regulate growth in cities and states? in the past; arizona and nevada sold water to california. now those states have grown and need that water so california cannot support it's population. that's why there's a big push in california to distill sea water.
too bad it's so late. i've got a lot of information on this subject. once again; you know the water situation. why do you need the government to tell you to conserve? people are plain stupid (not referring to you). again, look at vegas. people know they have a water problem yet they're building houses like there's no tomorrow. if you know there's no water; why are you building there?
Salt water being a solution is the underlying principle of the problem... You asked.
Scientists from every century of human existence have been trying to remove salt from water and have found no efficient way of doing so. It really has been at the top of scientific matters, and if a breakthrough were found would change the course of human existence forever. But nothing has been found... How many people have died from thirst while floating on top of a gigantic mass of water?
You got to spend it all
hello??? wells are being condemned constantly. the chemicals we've used over the last 100 years have seeped into the aquifer. most of the wells in my area have been condemned. that's why i'm outta here.
http://www.unesco.org/water/news/newsletter/117.shtml
DID YOU KNOW...? FACTS AND FIGURES ABOUT WATER AND SALINIZATION/DESALINATION
It is estimated that some 30% of the world's irrigated areas suffers from salinity problems and remediation is seen to be very costly.
Poor drainage and irrigation practices have led to waterlogging and salinization of about 10% of the world's irrigated lands, thereby reducing productivity.
There are significant areas of the globe where serious soil and groundwater salinization are present or have developed as a result of:
- rising groundwater tables, associated with the introduction of inefficient irrigation with imported surface water in areas of inadequate natural drainage
- natural salinity having been mobilized from the landscape, consequent upon vegetation clearing for farming development with increased rates of groundwater recharge
- excessive disturbance of natural groundwater salinity through uncontrolled well construction and pumping.
Waterlogging and salinization in large-scale irrigation projects are often the result of unavailable drainage infrastructure, which was not included in the engineering design in order to make projects look economically more attractive. These problems are generally associated with large-scale irrigation development under arid and semi-arid conditions, as in the Indus (Pakistan), the Tigris-Euphrates (Middle East) and the Nile (eastern Africa) river basins. The solutions to these problems are known, but their implementation is costly.
With population growth and concerns about water scarcity increasing, several countries, especially in the Middle East region, are developing desalination plants to convert saline water (e.g. sea-water, brackish water or treated wastewater) into freshwater.
The global market for desalination currently stands at about US $35 billion annually and could double over the next 15 years.
2002 there were about 12,500 desalination plants around the world in 120 countries. They produce some 14 million m³/day of freshwater, which is less than 1% of total world consumption.
The most important users of desalinated water are in the Middle East, (mainly Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates, Qatar and Bahrain), which uses about 70% of worldwide capacity; and in North Africa (mainly Libya and Algeria), which uses about 6% of worldwide capacity.
Among industrialized countries, the United States is one of the most important users of desalinated water (6.5%), especially in California and parts of Florida.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
You call it fresh drinking water... and refer to the creek water as not fit for human consumption, where the hauled water you get at the bush place is.
You got to spend it all
Good point. Aquifers that have hundreds of wells tapped into them are being polluted because they are not capped off properly after they lose their water production ability. Many wells are actually found below grade level so that any and all runoff goes down into the underground streams. More poop going into our waters sources.
You got to spend it all
hi scott. nice to see you. if anyone knows; you do. las vagas is building a pipeline for water so i'll keep you up with it. i think the big problem here is the chemicals that have leached into the aquifer. the coming problem is when the seas enter the cities along the coast and mix with sewage; oil; and chemicals. just as what happend in new orleans. the wells we've been emptying will then re-fill with this toxic water.
YUP! And that would be because the creek water has been tested and we've been advised that it's not fit for human consumption as opposed to the water that is brought in which also has to be tested and approved as fit for human consumption.
Seriously do you even have a point? I mean aside from deciding that you'd like to have a go at me today and being a condescending piece of work?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Do you drink it or not?
You got to spend it all
ever hear of distillation? i've seen several solar distillers which are passive and don't use energy. they're not even expensive.
the water used for agriculture is from wells. we cannot use polluted water for agriculture because the crops will absorb the pollutants. even if it's hay to feed cattle; the cattle then absorb it. check any states fishing regulations and you'll find a safe limit of fish that can be eaten. some lakes you can't eat anything out of.
the problem with many of these chemicals is when you distill the water; the steam must rise 32" to remove these chemicals.
rain water and snow is polluted. don't forget it passed through a polluted atmosphere and collected those pollutants as it fell.
it's late so i'm just throwing out facts. i'll elaborate tomorrow if you wish.
Why do you want to know? Plan on blaming me for something?
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
maybe I have a little more confidence in human determination to figure it out. just because a perfected method hasnt been discovered doesnt mean people have stopped trying.
and I'm sure every person who was caught floating out on the ocean has died. pocket size Desalination machines havent been invented yet. but great question, glad you asked.
POOP drinker!!!!
Oh you shut up!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Traditional distillation is about as viable as desalinization. Solar power has its limits and I would assume that these limits pertain to the solar distillers as well.
My family drinks 2 gallons of water a day, do you know how many square feet of panel I would need(assuming the sun as shining) to saciate our thirst?
You got to spend it all
i don't think the bloke knows what he's talking about. that seems to be the problem. he states mandates and laws nobody has ever heard of. and taking water from a specific layer of a lake??? the inlet pipe is placed so sediments don't get into it. nobody goes out and tests layers of a lake. lakes turn-over due to temperature changes. lakes do have thermal layers but they are constantly changing. i don't want to knit-pick all the rediculous things he's said here. i say just ignore him love. just like a mosquito; he'll go away.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
well obviously there are people out there that do it cause there sure is a hell of a lot of people regurgitating it and talking shit.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
solar has no limitations. i've been 100% solar for a long time and i've not been limited in any way. the problem is educating the public to get those ideas about the older solar applications out of their heads and introduce them to the modern solar applications.
a simple single basin passive solar distiller can provide you with 4 gallons of distilled water each day. (taken from "SOLARIZE YOUR HOME; PAGE 56.) it's a small unit; about 2" x 4' you place in the sun. because you store the extra water; that is what you use when the sun isn't shining.
Anyway, it's a really interesting subject which I feel strongly about and I'd just be happy to see governments around the world acknowledge there is a problem and come up with sensible REAL solutions.
We can play this reverse osmosis bullshit at a later date and as I said to scott, let's use that water for all the other possible uses before we get to drinking it. AND no need to be pumping it into the natural supply. Sort those things and I'll consider it. Find a way for me to reverse osmosis my own effluent and I'll consider it further. Otherwise I'm against it.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
Maybe you should "think" again... Every state/county/municipality are making water conservation laws. Right right...and nobody takes water samples thats right.
You got to spend it all
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
actually; solar pocket desalination units are a part of most survival packets for those that may be stranded at sea. they've been around for a long time.
Yeah, it's hard to tell, (he has such a great poker face!
Not that there's anything wrong with that!
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
water samples are taken every day. and municipailties ARE making conservation laws FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION. i can't imagine a MANDATE where i have to rip out my loo and replace it before the toilet police get here.
every lake is tested and thus the eating restrictions i talked about earlier. but if you want to stress your point; how thick are these layers? if i am in a lake; how do i identify a layer? can you back up this layer theory with a scientific link that proves water is taken from these layers? if it's true; it should be easy to find.