Obama: I pledge allegiance to Israel

MLC2006 wrote:

yeah, posting a website link from an anti-Israel "news agency" reporting on imaginary atrocities in order to defame Jews.....I'd call that anti-Semitic.

In order to defame Jews? Does Israel's government and military suddenly speak for the entire worldwide Jewish population?

MLC2006 wrote:

yeah, posting a website link from an anti-Israel "news agency" reporting on imaginary atrocities in order to defame Jews.....I'd call that anti-Semitic.

Equating criticism of Israeli government policy with anti-Semitism is lazy, utterly illegitimate and serves to undermine your position far more than support it.

why do the 'occupied' territories exist anyway?

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I agree. Have had him in my sig for a couple weeks...was going to get a round to posting a cache of his work.

http://harpers.org/media/image/art/cartoons/mrfish/IsraeliRealEstateAgent_703x567.jpg

That Mr Fish is sad but hilarious. good one !

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

In order to defame Jews? Does Israel's government and military suddenly speak for the entire worldwide Jewish population?

my bad. only HALF of the worldwide Jewish population lives in Israel. but I think we all understand which Jews were being discussed in this thread.

wolfamongwolves wrote:

Equating criticism of Israeli government policy with anti-Semitism is lazy, utterly illegitimate and serves to undermine your position far more than support it.

when one posts a "story" from a site like sabbath.biz, a story that can't be backed up by any legitimate news agency, I see it for exactly what it is. thanks.

MLC2006 wrote:

my bad. only HALF of the worldwide Jewish population lives in Israel. but I think we all understand which Jews were being discussed in this thread.

I don't think anyone has a problem with the Israeli people as a whole. It's with their government and military, who are committing terrorist acts. Are you going to call me an anti-Semite for that? Am I anti-every-other-religion for condemning any kind of terrorist action?

MLC2006 wrote:

no I'm not. I would call you "anti-semite" though if you chose to post links of imaginary news stories. but I WILL say that if you only point the "committing terrorist acts" finger at the Israelis and put no blame on the Palestinians, then you are completely ignorant as to what is going on there.

and also, I think there are PLENTY of people that have a problem with the Israeli people as a whole. history has shown just that, as well as propaganda that is being spewed even to this day.

Okay, let me rephrase - I don't think anyone in this thread has a problem with the Israeli people. But the reality is that Israeli soldiers are killing far more people than the Palestinians are, so Israel is going to come under that much more fire when people discuss it.

And just to be clear, when I say "Israel is going to come under that much more fire", I mean the people committing the acts, not the people as a whole.

MLC2006 wrote:

I'm not following. I'm assuming that by saying "illegally occupying land", you mean they have no right to be where they are? is that what you're saying?

http://ifamericansknew.org/stats/settlements.html


International Law
International humanitarian law prohibits [an] occupying power [from transferring] citizens from its own territory to the occupied territory (Fourth Geneva Convention, article 49). The Hague Regulations prohibit the occupying power [from undertaking] permanent changes in the occupied area, unless these are due to military needs in the narrow sense of the term, or unless they are undertaken for the benefit of the local population.
The establishment of the settlements leads to the violation of the rights of the Palestinians as enshrined in international human rights law. Among other violations, the settlements infringe on the rights to self-determination, equality, property, an adequate standard of living, and freedom of movement.

Taking Control of the Land
Israel has used a complex legal and bureaucratic mechanism to take control of more than fifty percent of the land in the West Bank. This land has been used mainly to establish settlements and create reserves of land for the future expansion of the settlements.
Israel uses the seized lands to benefit the settlements, while prohibiting the Palestinian public from using them in any way. This use is forbidden and illegal in itself. As the occupier in the Occupied Territories, Israel is not permitted to ignore the needs of an entire population and to use land intended for public needs solely to benefit the settlers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement

UN Security Council
The establishment and expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip have been described as "having no legal validity" by the UN Security Council in resolutions 446, 452, 465 and 471. These resolutions were made under Chapter VI of the United Nations Charter which relates to the "Pacific Settlement of Disputes" between parties, and as such have no enforcement mechanisms and are generally considered to have no binding force under international law.[40] In 1971, however, a majority of the then International Court of Justice (ICJ) members asserted in the non-binding Namibia advisory opinion that all UN Security Council resolutions are legally binding.

The European Union considers the settlements to be illegal,[45] and an April 21, 1978 opinion of the Legal Adviser of the Department of State to the United States Congress on the legal status of Israeli settlements concluded that "[w]hile Israel may undertake, in the occupied territories, actions necessary to meet its military needs and to provide for orderly government during the occupation, for the reasons indicated above the establishment of the civilian settlements in those territories is inconsistent with international law."[

Fourth Geneva Convention
On 15 July 1999 a conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention met at the United Nations headquarters in Geneva. It ruled that the Convention did apply in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem.[69][70] The Conference of High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention held in Geneva on December 5, 2001 called upon "the Occupying Power to fully and effectively respect the Fourth Geneva Convention in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and to refrain from perpetrating any violation of the Convention." The High Contracting Parties reaffirmed "the illegality of the settlements in the said territories and of the extension thereof."[71]
U.N. Security Council Resolution 446 refers directly to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and specifically insists that Israel desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup.


The annexation of East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights Law have both been deemed illegal by the UN Security Council (resolutions 267 and 497 respectively), and have not been recognized by other states.
Israel has signed peace treaties with Egypt (removing all Israeli settlements and returning the Sinai Peninsula to Egyptian sovereignty), and Jordan (returning small sections to Jordanian sovereignty); there are currently no peace treaties governing Israel's borders related to the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and the Golan Heights. Israel therefore asserts that the armistice lines (known as the Green Line) of 1949 have no other legal status.
Palestinians object to this view as the Israel-Jordan peace treaty was not to alter the status of any territories coming under Israeli control during the hostilities of 1967 (article 3(2) of the Israel-Jordan peace treaty).[39]

International human rights groups Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch have denounced the settlements as illegal