Obama: I pledge allegiance to Israel

catefrances

http://ifamericansknew.org/stats/settlements.html

'Israel has created in the Occupied Territories a regime of separation based on discrimination, applying two separate systems of law in the same area and basing the rights of individuals on their nationality. This regime is the only one of its kind in the world, and is reminiscent of distasteful regimes from the past, such as the Apartheid regime in South Africa.
Under this regime, Israel has stolen hundreds of thousands of dunam of land from the Palestinians. Israel has used this land to establish dozens of settlements in the West Bank and to populate them with hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens. Israel prohibits the Palestinians as a group from entering and using these lands, and uses the settlements to justify numerous violations of the Palestinians’ human rights, such as the right to housing, to earn a livelihood, and the right to freedom of movement. The drastic change that Israel has made in the map of the West Bank prevents any real possibility for the establishment of an independent, viable Palestinian state as part of the Palestinians’ right to self-determination.
The settlers, on the contrary, benefit from all the rights available to Israeli citizens living within the Green Line [Israel proper], and in some cases are even granted additional rights. The great effort that Israel has invested in the settlement enterprise – in financial, legal and bureaucratic terms – has turned the settlements into civilian enclaves in an area under military rule, with the settlers being given priority status. To perpetuate this situation, which is a priori illegal, Israel has continuously breached the rights of the Palestinians.
Particularly evident is Israel’s manipulative use of legal tools in order to give the settlement enterprise an impression of legality. In so doing, Israel trampled on numerous restrictions and prohibitions established in the international conventions to which it is party, and which were intended to limit infringement of human rights and to protect populations under occupation.'

catefrances

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1682640.stm

The Geneva Convention

It is widely accepted that under international law, the Jewish settlements in the Palestinian territories occupied by Israel are illegal.

Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention relative to the protection of civilian persons in time of war states:

"The occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own population into the territories it occupies."

Within the international community the overwhelming view is that Article 49 is applicable to the occupation of East Jerusalem, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip.

The United States has in the past called the settlements illegal, but has more recently used milder language, at least in public.

However, the Mitchell report into the causes of Palestinian-Israeli violence that began in September 2000 said:

"...customary international law, including the Fourth Geneva Convention, prohibits Israel (as an occupying power) from establishing settlements in occupied territory pending an end to the conflict."

RolandTD20Kdrummer

MLC2006 wrote:

that's the best question asked in this whole thread. ask it to Roland and I'm sure he can find something on jewconspiracy.com to give you a "legitimate" answer.

I've already shredded your BS claims about my sources if you need to know what time it is.

You're failing miserably thus far in expressing your wealth of information you claim to possess.

I'm not seeing anything from your camp these days outside of random opinion.

El_Kabong

MLC2006 wrote:

I've asked several times, in a very serious manner, what ILLEGAL settlements are being referred to? illegal how? established when? I've not gotten an answer yet.

i answered you a few pages ago

El_Kabong

MLC2006 wrote:

when one posts a "story" from a site like sabbath.biz, a story that can't be backed up by any legitimate news agency, I see it for exactly what it is. thanks.

i posted something from an official israeli government site, amnesty international and the independent...

here's a list of things from the international committee of the red cross:
http://www.icrc.org/web/eng/siteeng0.nsf/(PSearch)?SearchView&Query=israel&searchWv=1&searchFuzzy=1&SearchOrder=1&SearchMax=0&style=Custo_results_search2

are they anit-semetic, too???

and they have some articles that can solve the mystery of 'what occupied territories?'

here's the rotten anti-semites at UNICEF:
http://www.unicef.org/search/search.php?q=palestinian&Go.x=0&Go.y=0

http://www.unicef.org/search/search.php?q=israel

El_Kabong

MLC2006 wrote:

I think there is at least one person on this thread that has a major problem with the Israeli people.

Israel is killing more than the Palestinians because they have better firepower. no more, no less. don't think for a minute that the Palestinians and the surrounding Arab countries wouldn't wipe Israel off the map if they were able to do it and get away with it.

oh, well, i guess that makes it all ok, then!!!!

nothing to say on the statistics i posted from an official israeli government site or how in a few days this year israel killed more palesitinians than israelis were killed in a 5 year span?

catefrances

MLC2006 wrote:

no I'm not. I would call you "anti-semite" though if you chose to post links of imaginary news stories. but I WILL say that if you only point the "committing terrorist acts" finger at the Israelis and put no blame on the Palestinians, then you are completely ignorant as to what is going on there.

and also, I think there are PLENTY of people that have a problem with the Israeli people as a whole. history has shown just that, as well as propaganda that is being spewed even to this day.

hmm what do yuo suggest a people do when they are dispossessed of their land, not allowed the right of return when they flee during wartime? should they hold hands sit around a campfire and sing kumbaya? or should they do what you and i would do in the same circumstance, and oppose with everything they have and any way they can?
the palestinians didnt decide one day to target israeli jews just for the heck of it. the way you go on id swear you thought the palestinians had no grievances that need to be addressed.
fascinating how the oppressed has become the oppressor dont you think?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

"Overheard in Jerusalem -- This is my house!"

http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2008/05/12/overheard-in-jerusalem-this-is-my-house/

"“Let the Israelis admit their wrongdoing in 1948,” said Assaly. “Then there will be room for healing.”"

sweetpotato

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Precisely, and anti-semitic insults are coming from that level of understanding.

Life is too short...

so then don't debate with him at all! it's still not a reason to insult him. and if he insulted you first (or you think he did), you can still be the bigger person and move on.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sweetpotato wrote:

so then don't debate with him at all! it's still not a reason to insult him. and if he insulted you first (or you think he did), you can still be the bigger person and move on.

I reserve the right to clarify any slanderous remarks made towards me.

And why may I ask are you singling me out in this situation?

gmab...read the thread and see for yourself. I'd say it again given the same circumstances.

(I think perhaps someone is still a little sore over differing opinions on Obama...)

RolandTD20Kdrummer

further reading....

http://uruknet.info/?p=m43896&hd=&size=1&l=e

wolfamongwolves

MLC2006 wrote:

wolfamongwolves wrote:

Equating criticism of Israeli government policy with anti-Semitism is lazy, utterly illegitimate and serves to undermine your position far more than support it.

when one posts a "story" from a site like sabbath.biz, a story that can't be backed up by any legitimate news agency, I see it for exactly what it is. thanks.

When one makes claims of anti-Semitism that can't be backed up by any legitimate understanding of that term, I see that for exactly what it is.

Groundless, slanderous sensationalism and nothing more.

Unless you can show that the criticisms of the actions and policies of the Israeli government are somehow motivated by a bias against the religion of the people of Israel - & I can see no basis here for you to do so - then your accusation is totally without foundation. It's just blind adherence to transparent propaganda.

Open

MLC2006 wrote:

that's such a terrible thing for him to say. we all know that Jews shouldn't be safe anywhere on earth.

They should be safe, but they should be held to the same standards as everyone else. Nuclear weapons, war crimes...etc. This immediate attempt to brand anything as anti semi is a disgrace. Israel is spitting on those people who died during the holocust by using their pain to try advance their own cause. Pathetic.

NMyTree

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I reserve the right to clarify any slanderous remarks made towards me.

And why may I ask are you singling me out in this situation?

gmab...read the thread and see for yourself. I'd say it again given the same circumstances.

(I think perhaps someone is still a little sore over differing opinions on Obama...)

She's playing Dr.Phil and you've been singled out for her unique brand of therapy:.

Although she certainly has no problem slinging insults of her own, lol.

Which of course makes her preaching all the more hilarious.:D

MLC2006

after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in WWI, Britain was given the mandate for the partitioning of Palestine. this, and other reasons, led to a mass immigration of Jews to Palestine. when the mandate expired in 1948, Israel declared independance and were immediately recognized by most nations of the world. but the Arab League declared war on Israel, were defeated, and Israel's size grew. Israel's size has also grown over the years through other armed conflicts and threats of armed conflicts. Israel has since made peace with Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. but attempts for peace with the Palestinians have always stalled. sometimes at the fault of both sides, sometimes at the fault of the Palestinians, very rarely at the fault of Israel only. in 2006, the Palestinians gave majority rule of parliament to Hamas. Hamas' stated mission is the destruction of the state of Israel and replacing it with a Palestinian Islamic state. Hamas- the Palestinians' OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT- refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist. Hamas is labeled a terrorist organization by 6 of the most powerful nations in the world and is labeled by the EU as a group "involved in terrorist attacks". Hamas is famous for suicide-murders, particularly inside Israel.

now, this argument, as far as I'm concerned, is done. typical of leftists, many of you resort to insults when you've lost an argument. great. continue to get your news from Roland. I've insinuated, and fully believe, that he is an anti-semite. that's not an insult, that's the fact as I see it. when you post links to websites full of anti-Israel "news stories" giving stories of atrocities that can't be substantiated by any legitimate or well known news source, it reeks of anti-semitism to me. now, you can go back to jacking each other off or whatever, but the facts are there. I'm out.

NMyTree

MLC2006 wrote:

I've insinuated, and fully believe, that he is an anti-semite. that's not an insult, that's the fact as I see it. when you post links to websites full of anti-Israel "news stories" giving stories of atrocities that can't be substantiated by any legitimate or well known news source, it reeks of anti-semitism to me.

Then you truely don't have a good grasp on the definition of anti-Semitism.

Plain and simple.

wolfamongwolves

MLC2006 wrote:

after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in WWI, Britain was given the mandate for the partitioning of Palestine. this, and other reasons, led to a mass immigration of Jews to Palestine. when the mandate expired in 1948, Israel declared independance and were immediately recognized by most nations of the world. but the Arab League declared war on Israel, were defeated, and Israel's size grew. Israel's size has also grown over the years through other armed conflicts and threats of armed conflicts. Israel has since made peace with Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. but attempts for peace with the Palestinians have always stalled. sometimes at the fault of both sides, sometimes at the fault of the Palestinians, very rarely at the fault of Israel only. in 2006, the Palestinians gave majority rule of parliament to Hamas. Hamas' stated mission is the destruction of the state of Israel and replacing it with a Palestinian Islamic state. Hamas- the Palestinians' OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT- refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist. Hamas is labeled a terrorist organization by 6 of the most powerful nations in the world and is labeled by the EU as a group "involved in terrorist attacks". Hamas is famous for suicide-murders, particularly inside Israel.

now, this argument, as far as I'm concerned, is done. typical of leftists, many of you resort to insults when you've lost an argument. great. continue to get your news from Roland. I've insinuated, and fully believe, that he is an anti-semite. that's not an insult, that's the fact as I see it. when you post links to websites full of anti-Israel "news stories" giving stories of atrocities that can't be substantiated by any legitimate or well known news source, it reeks of anti-semitism to me. now, you can go back to jacking each other off or whatever, but the facts are there. I'm out.

Once again, you've completely missed, failed to mention or just conveniently ignored the fact that anti-Semitism is a bigotry against Jews for being Jews, and that is not the issue when it comes to (the majority of) criticism of Israel's actions in Palestine. It has to do with human rights abuses, plain and simple, which deserve to be criticised no matter who the perpetrator is, or what their religion is.

When you start from the blinkered perspective that Israel is above criticism just because it its Israel, your argument and your position have no basis in reality, and have no legitimacy.

fuck

MLC2006 wrote:

after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in WWI, Britain was given the mandate for the partitioning of Palestine. this, and other reasons, led to a mass immigration of Jews to Palestine. when the mandate expired in 1948, Israel declared independance and were immediately recognized by most nations of the world. but the Arab League declared war on Israel, were defeated, and Israel's size grew. Israel's size has also grown over the years through other armed conflicts and threats of armed conflicts. Israel has since made peace with Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. but attempts for peace with the Palestinians have always stalled. sometimes at the fault of both sides, sometimes at the fault of the Palestinians, very rarely at the fault of Israel only. in 2006, the Palestinians gave majority rule of parliament to Hamas. Hamas' stated mission is the destruction of the state of Israel and replacing it with a Palestinian Islamic state. Hamas- the Palestinians' OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT- refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist. Hamas is labeled a terrorist organization by 6 of the most powerful nations in the world and is labeled by the EU as a group "involved in terrorist attacks". Hamas is famous for suicide-murders, particularly inside Israel.

let me guess.... high school history book? Is that your source?

now, this argument, as far as I'm concerned, is done.

for you, yes.

typical of leftists, many of you resort to insults when you've lost an argument.

and, of course, accusing someone of being an anti-semite is not an insult you've just resorted to using.

great. continue to get your news from Roland. I've insinuated, and fully believe, that he is an anti-semite. that's not an insult, that's the fact as I see it.

do you even know what you're saying? that's like saying "you're a piece of shit. that's not an insult, it's just the fact as I see it."

when you post links to websites full of anti-Israel "news stories" giving stories of atrocities that can't be substantiated by any legitimate or well known news source, it reeks of anti-semitism to me.

HAHA! NOW, this argument is DONE.

now, you can go back to jacking each other off or whatever, but the facts are there. I'm out.

you write a paragraph without giving any "legitimate" source--or ANY source for that matter--as your backup, call someone an anti-semite, insult all of us, then you say "but the facts are there. I'm out."

classic!

Rhinocerous Surprise

MLC2006 wrote:

after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in WWI, Britain was given the mandate for the partitioning of Palestine. this, and other reasons, led to a mass immigration of Jews to Palestine. when the mandate expired in 1948, Israel declared independance and were immediately recognized by most nations of the world. but the Arab League declared war on Israel, were defeated, and Israel's size grew. Israel's size has also grown over the years through other armed conflicts and threats of armed conflicts. Israel has since made peace with Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. but attempts for peace with the Palestinians have always stalled. sometimes at the fault of both sides, sometimes at the fault of the Palestinians, very rarely at the fault of Israel only. in 2006, the Palestinians gave majority rule of parliament to Hamas. Hamas' stated mission is the destruction of the state of Israel and replacing it with a Palestinian Islamic state. Hamas- the Palestinians' OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT- refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist. Hamas is labeled a terrorist organization by 6 of the most powerful nations in the world and is labeled by the EU as a group "involved in terrorist attacks". Hamas is famous for suicide-murders, particularly inside Israel.

now, this argument, as far as I'm concerned, is done. typical of leftists, many of you resort to insults when you've lost an argument. great. continue to get your news from Roland. I've insinuated, and fully believe, that he is an anti-semite. that's not an insult, that's the fact as I see it. when you post links to websites full of anti-Israel "news stories" giving stories of atrocities that can't be substantiated by any legitimate or well known news source, it reeks of anti-semitism to me. now, you can go back to jacking each other off or whatever, but the facts are there. I'm out.

And typical of rightists, you've got blind allegiance to Israel in spite of their international law violations and blatant disregard for human rights. See? Generalisations are fun!

With all due respect, posting "What illegal settlements? You're an anti-Semite! Post some real news sources!" without once posting anything from a legitimate source doesn't equate to winning an argument, in my opinion.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

MLC2006 wrote:

after the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in WWI, Britain was given the mandate for the partitioning of Palestine. this, and other reasons, led to a mass immigration of Jews to Palestine. when the mandate expired in 1948, Israel declared independance and were immediately recognized by most nations of the world. but the Arab League declared war on Israel, were defeated, and Israel's size grew. Israel's size has also grown over the years through other armed conflicts and threats of armed conflicts. Israel has since made peace with Egypt, Jordan, and Syria. but attempts for peace with the Palestinians have always stalled. sometimes at the fault of both sides, sometimes at the fault of the Palestinians, very rarely at the fault of Israel only. in 2006, the Palestinians gave majority rule of parliament to Hamas. Hamas' stated mission is the destruction of the state of Israel and replacing it with a Palestinian Islamic state. Hamas- the Palestinians' OFFICIAL GOVERNMENT- refuses to recognize Israel's right to exist. Hamas is labeled a terrorist organization by 6 of the most powerful nations in the world and is labeled by the EU as a group "involved in terrorist attacks". Hamas is famous for suicide-murders, particularly inside Israel.

now, this argument, as far as I'm concerned, is done. typical of leftists, many of you resort to insults when you've lost an argument. great. continue to get your news from Roland. I've insinuated, and fully believe, that he is an anti-semite. that's not an insult, that's the fact as I see it. when you post links to websites full of anti-Israel "news stories" giving stories of atrocities that can't be substantiated by any legitimate or well known news source, it reeks of anti-semitism to me. now, you can go back to jacking each other off or whatever, but the facts are there. I'm out.

omg

The argument is done all right, and thus confirms my observation of your inability to understand it. That's not a forever situation btw...

Are you part of that CUFI cult? because I think you've been brainwashed by a religious organization, and I'm serious when I say that.