That thread has all the argument you want on that topic. I'm not gonna say Hamas hasn't committed terrorism. But I'm not gonna sit by and say that justifies Israel's continued actions, nor does it excuse America pledging blind allegiance to a country that's committing just as much terrorism.
Smokey Robinson constantly looks like he's trying to act natural after being accused of farting.
yeah, one brief glance over at sabbath.biz is all it takes to prove to a rational person how "legitimate" that site is.
Are you attempting to say just because it isn't aired on Fox or CNN or some other spoon fed American monopolized MSM outlet it isn't legit? If you took a few seconds you would see that their source is http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=29007
"Ma'an News Agency initiative is funded by both the Netherlands Ministry of Foreign Affairs, http://www.minbuza.nl/ and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Denmark, Danish International Development Assistance (DANIDA), http://www.um.dk/da. "
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
not to add too much fuel to this blaze, but outside of the websites which can be spotty at best sometimes - "Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict" by Charles D. Smith gives a pretty good historical perspective on the topic, although I just have the 3rd edition which is copyright 1996 which doesn't do much for the last 12 years but it is important to know the roots of this problem.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
"Democratic White House contender Barack Obama says the US would be fully committed to Israel's security if he is elected president.
"America's commitment to Israel's security is unshakable," the 46-year-old presidential hopeful said Thursday during a brief speech at a celebration to mark the 60th anniversary of Israel.
"I am absolutely convinced that our friendship between the two nations is unbreakable, the Illinois senator added.
"
he's absolutely convinced huh? why would he need to be in the first place?
and just cause he is convinced, doesnt mean its a good idea or the right thing.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
he's absolutely convinced huh? why would he need to be in the first place?
and just cause he is convinced, doesnt mean its a good idea or the right thing.
I don't see how a supposedly peace loving candidate gets the notion to polarize a nation to one side on an issue.
Since when is it about picking sides that lead to biblically prophesied Armageddon type confrontation?
I though peace was about trying to live together...
Apparently it's about proudly supporting Zionism for the next 600 years if necessary (according to Barak's own words)
......actually....that sounds a lot like like McCain.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
I don't see how a supposedly peace loving candidate gets the notion to polarize a nation to one side on an issue.
Since when is it about picking sides that lead to biblically prophesied Armageddon type confrontation?
I though peace was about trying to live together...
Apparently it's about proudly supporting Zionism for the next 600 years if necessary (according to Barak's own words)
......actually....that sounds a lot like like McCain.
its about getting elected isnt it? and staying there, right?
so you suck up to those who can apparently theoretically hurt you the most and fuck the right thing.
i can not abide the blind allegience to the israeli government.
israel and the occupied territories?... um... hello...israel IS the occupied territories.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
its about getting elected isnt it? and staying there, right?
so you suck up to those who can apparently theoretically hurt you the most and fuck the right thing.
i can not abide the blind allegience to the israeli government.
israel and the occupied territories?... um... hello...israel IS the occupied territories.
It's a pretty sad state of affairs when a world "superpower" is allowed to be conducted according to biblical prophecy and end times mentality in determining foreign policy.
The Christians believe when the rapture comes (and it will come...and soon :rolleyes: ) that the Jews who haven't converted to Christianity will perish. Win win for the ultra right wing bible thumping conservatives. The Jews are going to help the Christians, and in the end the Christians will have it all :rolleyes:
I guess some people think were living in the bible literally, and it's all true word for word...
I say get them the F--- out of office before they blow the place sky high over an antiquated book of parables.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
just google: occupied territories and you should find answers easy enough
this is what i love.. the occupied territories is not that land which the jews stole but that which the palestinians are 'surviving' on. huh? how does that work?
'In late 1947 the United Nations proposed that Palestine be divided into a Palestinian Arab state and a Jewish state. The UN Partition Plan recommended that 55 percent of Palestine, and the most fertile region, be given to the Jewish settlers who compromised 30 percent of the population. The remaining 45 percent of Palestine was to comprise a home for the other 70 percent of the population who were Palestinians. The Palestinians rejected the plan because it was unfair. Israel and its supporters claim that the Arabs first attacked in Janurary 1948 and then invaded Israel in May 1948.
The truth is that by May 1948 Zionist forces had already invaded and occupied large parts of the land which had been allocated to the Palestinians by the UN Partition Plan.
...it is not true that the Arabs "invaded Israel" in 1948. First, Israel did not exist at the time of the alleged invasion as an established state with recognised bounderies. When the Zionist leaders established Israel on 15 May 1948 they purposely declined to declare the bounderies of the new state in order to allow for future expansion.
Secondly, the only territory to which the new state of Israel had even a remote claim was that alloted to the Jewish state by the UN Partition Plan. But the Zionists had already attacked areas that were alloted to the Palestinian Arab state.
Thirdly, those areas which the Arab states purportedly
"invaded" were, in fact, exclusively areas alloted to the
Palestinian Arab state proposed by the UN Partition Plan. The so-called Arab invasion was a defensive attempt to hold on to the areas alloted by the Partition Plan for the Palestinian state.
Finally, the commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, was under
orders not to enter the areas alloted to the Jewish state
(Sir John Bagot Glubb, "The Battle for Jerusalem", Middle
East International, May 1973).'
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
"That effort begins with a clear and strong commitment to the security of Israel: Our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy," he added. "That will always be my starting point."
In what may have been a veiled reference to reports of American opposition to Israeli negotations with Syria, Obama said: "We should never seek to dictate what is best for the Israelis and their security interests. No Israeli prime minister should ever feel dragged to or blocked from the negotiating table by the United States."
The Illinois senator also called for continued American military assistance to Israel. "We must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs," he said.
Obama added that he was concerned about the Palestinian unity government accord.
yeah, how dare we try to get the 2 of them to make peace?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I just don't know what part you're referring to as being "illegal"?
I assume he's referring to the ever-increasing number of Israeli settlements on the Palestinian side of the green line, which are unequivocally in violation of international law. Does that answer your question?
93: Slane
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
elaborate please? illegal settlements? set up when? pre-1900? post WWI? post WWII? 1960s? 1990s? when exactly did these "illegal settlements" that you speak of come about?
I assume he's referring to the ever-increasing number of Israeli settlements on the Palestinian side of the green line, which are unequivocally in violation of international law. Does that answer your question?
by "green line", you are referring to the boundary line that the Palesinian government refuses to recognize, correct?
"Democratic White House contender Barack Obama says the US would be fully committed to Israel's security if he is elected president.
"America's commitment to Israel's security is unshakable," the 46-year-old presidential hopeful said Thursday during a brief speech at a celebration to mark the 60th anniversary of Israel.
"I am absolutely convinced that our friendship between the two nations is unbreakable, the Illinois senator added.
"
i'm not sure how i feel about this, since i'm on the fence about israel in general. on one hand, i think that they have a right to exist and have a place on earth to call their own, and that they do have some amount of claim to that particular piece of land. on the other hand, i hate what they have done and are still doing to palestinians. it's not an easy situation, and i'm not sure it's as black and white an issue as someof you make it out to be.
a very, very good book on the subject is Arab and Jew: Wounded Spirits in a Promised Land. tells both sides with compassion for each of their experiences. while it doesn't tell you WHAT to think about the situation, it does help you with HOW to think about it.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
you want me to explain your google search? come on dude. your arguments are silly. I already said there are atrocities being committed on both sides. you're the one that wants to see it as a one sided affair. go back to your anti-semite websites.
you want me to explain your google search? come on dude. your arguments are silly. I already said there are atrocities being committed on both sides. you're the one that wants to see it as a one sided affair. go back to your anti-semite websites.
Explain why Jews are against Zionism...
thanks
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
It's always interesting when anyone suggests Israel should be held accountable for their barbaric and violent actions; immediately one is labeled an anti-semite.
How pathetic.
In fact, any criticism towards Israel or Jews in general; often achieves the same result.
out of 15 million Jews on earth, you want me to explain how you did a google search and found a handfull of SUPPOSED Jews who are against Zionism. get the fuck out.
It's always interesting when anyone suggests Israel should be held accountable for their barbaric and violent actions; immediately one is labeled an anti-semite.
How pathetic.
In fact, any criticism towards Israel or Jews in general; often achieves the same result.
yeah, posting a website link from an anti-Israel "news agency" reporting on imaginary atrocities in order to defame Jews.....I'd call that anti-Semitic.
out of 15 million Jews on earth, you want me to explain how you did a google search and found a handfull of SUPPOSED Jews who are against Zionism. get the fuck out.
supposed? handful? Israel has the highest instance of soldiers who refuse to serve.
Explain the reality of it...
If you can. Quite frankly I don't think you're capable of understanding it, or we'd be there already by now...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
supposed? handful? Israel has the highest instance of soldiers who refuse to serve.
Explain the reality of it...
If you can. Quite frankly I don't think you're capable of understanding it, or we'd be there already by now...
see, now this is what i don't understand. why does a debate need to turn all nasty and personal like this? why do you feel the need to tell him he's not "capable of understanding" something? that really has no place here, imo. disagreeing is not the same as not understanding. but the next thing we know, you'll be accusing HIM of getting personal & nasty. just stop the silly schoolyard shit and debate like a man.
"Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
see, now this is what i don't understand. why does a debate need to turn all nasty and personal like this? why do you feel the need to tell him he's not "capable of understanding" something? that really has no place here, imo. disagreeing is not the same as not understanding. but the next thing we know, you'll be accusing HIM of getting personal & nasty. just stop the silly schoolyard shit and debate like a man.
Follow the thread... at this point there's no other explanation.
I took the insults....presented the info ....same diff
enough is enough..
time to cut through the bullshit and get to the point
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
see, now this is what i don't understand. why does a debate need to turn all nasty and personal like this? why do you feel the need to tell him he's not "capable of understanding" something? that really has no place here, imo. disagreeing is not the same as not understanding. but the next thing we know, you'll be accusing HIM of getting personal & nasty. just stop the silly schoolyard shit and debate like a man.
keep in mind that debating with someone like MLC2006 is a waste of time when his argument is "which illegal settlements are you talking about?"...
Comments
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=282665
That thread has all the argument you want on that topic. I'm not gonna say Hamas hasn't committed terrorism. But I'm not gonna sit by and say that justifies Israel's continued actions, nor does it excuse America pledging blind allegiance to a country that's committing just as much terrorism.
Are you attempting to say just because it isn't aired on Fox or CNN or some other spoon fed American monopolized MSM outlet it isn't legit? If you took a few seconds you would see that their source is http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=29007
"Ma'an News Agency initiative is funded by both the Netherlands Ministry of Foreign Affairs, http://www.minbuza.nl/ and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Denmark, Danish International Development Assistance (DANIDA), http://www.um.dk/da. "
Watch this sometime...twice if necessary
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-2451908450811690589&q=occupation++101&ei=GronSN-oK6GE_AHR0ODlCQ&hl=en
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Asbury Park '21; MSG '22; Camden '22
I hate to break the news to the Zionist mindset, but the rapture ain't coming...
You aren't gong to float up into the air and fly to heaven anytime ever..
and of rational v.s. irrational..
pretty easy to spot the irrationality here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQRiAnYj4gY
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
he's absolutely convinced huh? why would he need to be in the first place?
and just cause he is convinced, doesnt mean its a good idea or the right thing.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I like the idea that John McCain could run.
I don't see how a supposedly peace loving candidate gets the notion to polarize a nation to one side on an issue.
Since when is it about picking sides that lead to biblically prophesied Armageddon type confrontation?
I though peace was about trying to live together...
Apparently it's about proudly supporting Zionism for the next 600 years if necessary (according to Barak's own words)
......actually....that sounds a lot like like McCain.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
its about getting elected isnt it? and staying there, right?
so you suck up to those who can apparently theoretically hurt you the most and fuck the right thing.
i can not abide the blind allegience to the israeli government.
israel and the occupied territories?... um... hello...israel IS the occupied territories.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
It's a pretty sad state of affairs when a world "superpower" is allowed to be conducted according to biblical prophecy and end times mentality in determining foreign policy.
The Christians believe when the rapture comes (and it will come...and soon :rolleyes: ) that the Jews who haven't converted to Christianity will perish. Win win for the ultra right wing bible thumping conservatives. The Jews are going to help the Christians, and in the end the Christians will have it all :rolleyes:
I guess some people think were living in the bible literally, and it's all true word for word...
I say get them the F--- out of office before they blow the place sky high over an antiquated book of parables.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
this is what i love.. the occupied territories is not that land which the jews stole but that which the palestinians are 'surviving' on. huh? how does that work?
http://www.pmwatch.org/pmw/snakebite/Wars.html
'In late 1947 the United Nations proposed that Palestine be divided into a Palestinian Arab state and a Jewish state. The UN Partition Plan recommended that 55 percent of Palestine, and the most fertile region, be given to the Jewish settlers who compromised 30 percent of the population. The remaining 45 percent of Palestine was to comprise a home for the other 70 percent of the population who were Palestinians. The Palestinians rejected the plan because it was unfair. Israel and its supporters claim that the Arabs first attacked in Janurary 1948 and then invaded Israel in May 1948.
The truth is that by May 1948 Zionist forces had already invaded and occupied large parts of the land which had been allocated to the Palestinians by the UN Partition Plan.
...it is not true that the Arabs "invaded Israel" in 1948. First, Israel did not exist at the time of the alleged invasion as an established state with recognised bounderies. When the Zionist leaders established Israel on 15 May 1948 they purposely declined to declare the bounderies of the new state in order to allow for future expansion.
Secondly, the only territory to which the new state of Israel had even a remote claim was that alloted to the Jewish state by the UN Partition Plan. But the Zionists had already attacked areas that were alloted to the Palestinian Arab state.
Thirdly, those areas which the Arab states purportedly
"invaded" were, in fact, exclusively areas alloted to the
Palestinian Arab state proposed by the UN Partition Plan. The so-called Arab invasion was a defensive attempt to hold on to the areas alloted by the Partition Plan for the Palestinian state.
Finally, the commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, was under
orders not to enter the areas alloted to the Jewish state
(Sir John Bagot Glubb, "The Battle for Jerusalem", Middle
East International, May 1973).'
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWjYHP91gA
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
http://homo-sapien-underground.blogspot.com/2007/02/is-aipac-making-monkey-out-of-you_2660.html
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
"That effort begins with a clear and strong commitment to the security of Israel: Our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy," he added. "That will always be my starting point."
In what may have been a veiled reference to reports of American opposition to Israeli negotations with Syria, Obama said: "We should never seek to dictate what is best for the Israelis and their security interests. No Israeli prime minister should ever feel dragged to or blocked from the negotiating table by the United States."
The Illinois senator also called for continued American military assistance to Israel. "We must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs," he said.
Obama added that he was concerned about the Palestinian unity government accord.
yeah, how dare we try to get the 2 of them to make peace?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
by "green line", you are referring to the boundary line that the Palesinian government refuses to recognize, correct?
probably not as cold as the rock that the people (like you) who get their opinions from Roland live under.
i'm not sure how i feel about this, since i'm on the fence about israel in general. on one hand, i think that they have a right to exist and have a place on earth to call their own, and that they do have some amount of claim to that particular piece of land. on the other hand, i hate what they have done and are still doing to palestinians. it's not an easy situation, and i'm not sure it's as black and white an issue as someof you make it out to be.
a very, very good book on the subject is Arab and Jew: Wounded Spirits in a Promised Land. tells both sides with compassion for each of their experiences. while it doesn't tell you WHAT to think about the situation, it does help you with HOW to think about it.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Please explain and address my posts with your wealth of information and knowledge.
and explain this as well if you could...
http://www.google.ca/search?q=jews+against+zionism&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a
thanks...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
you want me to explain your google search? come on dude. your arguments are silly. I already said there are atrocities being committed on both sides. you're the one that wants to see it as a one sided affair. go back to your anti-semite websites.
Explain why Jews are against Zionism...
thanks
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
How pathetic.
In fact, any criticism towards Israel or Jews in general; often achieves the same result.
out of 15 million Jews on earth, you want me to explain how you did a google search and found a handfull of SUPPOSED Jews who are against Zionism. get the fuck out.
yeah, posting a website link from an anti-Israel "news agency" reporting on imaginary atrocities in order to defame Jews.....I'd call that anti-Semitic.
supposed? handful? Israel has the highest instance of soldiers who refuse to serve.
Explain the reality of it...
If you can. Quite frankly I don't think you're capable of understanding it, or we'd be there already by now...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
see, now this is what i don't understand. why does a debate need to turn all nasty and personal like this? why do you feel the need to tell him he's not "capable of understanding" something? that really has no place here, imo. disagreeing is not the same as not understanding. but the next thing we know, you'll be accusing HIM of getting personal & nasty. just stop the silly schoolyard shit and debate like a man.
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
Follow the thread... at this point there's no other explanation.
I took the insults....presented the info ....same diff
enough is enough..
time to cut through the bullshit and get to the point
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")