Obama: I pledge allegiance to Israel

MLC2006

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I highlighted the problem...

It's no mystery what is going here...

you highlighted "legitimate", as in you feel that websites that make up propaganda for stirring up anti-semitic sentiment are legitimate news sources.

what's happening in Palestine is a messed up situation where innocent people are suffering and atrocities are being committed by BOTH SIDES, not just Israel.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

MLC2006 wrote:

you highlighted "legitimate", as in you feel that websites that make up propaganda for stirring up anti-semitic sentiment are legitimate news sources.

what's happening in Palestine is a messed up situation where innocent people are suffering and atrocities are being committed by BOTH SIDES, not just Israel.

Actually that's a misnomer... it's all rather imbalanced to put it lightly.

Rhinocerous Surprise

MLC2006 wrote:

you highlighted "legitimate", as in you feel that websites that make up propaganda for stirring up anti-semitic sentiment are legitimate news sources.

what's happening in Palestine is a messed up situation where innocent people are suffering and atrocities are being committed by BOTH SIDES, not just Israel.

Who said Palestine was innocent? I said innocent civilians were being killed by Israel's occupation. But pledging "unbreakable" friendship to a government that's committing atrocities seems a little off, don't you think?

MLC2006

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Who said Palestine was innocent? I said innocent civilians were being killed by Israel's occupation. But pledging "unbreakable" friendship to a government that's committing atrocities seems a little off, don't you think?

I don't remember you saying that. not in this thread at least. what I remember you saying was something about an "illegal occupation" and I asked you to specify what/where/when this occupation that you speak of is and what is illegal about it?

MLC2006

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Actually that's a misnomer... it's all rather imbalanced to put it lightly.

of course, if you believe most of the stuff you post from jihad.com and eviljews.com, it's very imbalanced. I usually try not to take propaganda for fact, so through my eyes, I see it as pretty balanced/

RolandTD20Kdrummer

MLC2006 wrote:

of course, if you believe most of the stuff you post from jihad.com and eviljews.com, it's very imbalanced. I usually try not to take propaganda for fact, so through my eyes, I see it as pretty balanced/

Your claim on my source information is total nonsense... if that's all you have.

The sources are all there, and they legitimize.

Rhinocerous Surprise

MLC2006 wrote:

I don't remember you saying that. not in this thread at least. what I remember you saying was something about an "illegal occupation" and I asked you to specify what/where/when this occupation that you speak of is and what is illegal about it?

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Gimme a break. You know we're talking about Palestine. Spare me the "Israel are innocently looking for a home" spin. We both know they're illegally occupying Palestinian territories, killing hundreds of innocent civilians in the process.

As for your other question, there have been countless other threads debating the legality of Israel's occupation of Palestinian territory, and they've all been locked because neither side is gonna convince the other, and it ends up consisting of petty attacks. The legality of the occupation isn't what we're discussing here - it's America pledging unbreakable support to a government that is, as you yourself have said, actively committing atrocities. Do you not think that's wrong?

MLC2006

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

As for your other question, there have been countless other threads debating the legality of Israel's occupation of Palestinian territory, and they've all been locked because neither side is gonna convince the other, and it ends up consisting of petty attacks. The legality of the occupation isn't what we're discussing here - it's America pledging unbreakable support to a government that is, as you yourself have said, actively committing atrocities. Do you not think that's wrong?

nowhere in your quote or in the part that you highlighted do you point out that thousands of Israelis have been murdered by Palestinian terrorists.

MLC2006

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

Your claim on my source information is total nonsense... if that's all you have.

The sources are all there, and they legitimize.

yeah, one brief glance over at sabbath.biz is all it takes to prove to a rational person how "legitimate" that site is.

El_Kabong

MLC2006 wrote:

are you a member of the PLO or the Nazi party by any chance? I mean, it seems to me you spend most of your time on here reporting on Israeli atrocities that are only posted on anti-Israel websites and can't be found on any legitimate news site.

you feel amnesty international and other non-profit organizations like unicef are anti-israeli???

i posted an official israeli government site that lists the suicide bombings and other attacks in israel and posted some mainstream news articles comparing how israel far surpasses the palesitnians in death countsm especially children. unicef and other organizations have reported on the effects of the roadblocks have on the children and leads to malnutrition and lacking medical care (especially when israel denies an ambulance entry or attacks it...

since you seem to think some need to crack open history books perhaps you should find a map and find the west bank...is that israeli land?




Everyone, including the 3 corporate candidates, talk about Israel's right to self-defense...but what about the Palestinians?? How can we call Israel's actions self-defense, anyway?

From the Israeli Ministry of Foriegn Affairs website:
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Suicide+and+Other+Bombing+Attacks+in+Israel+Since.htm


Suicide and Other Bombing Attacks in Israel Since the Declaration of Principles (Sept 1993)

10 in 2005 - 24 dead, 3 killed no one
3 in 2006 - 15 dead
1 in 2007 - 3 dead
2 this year - 9 dead


that doesn't add up to very many dead Israeli's in the past 4 years, especially compared to just these TWO articles:

From the Independent in 2006:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestinian-death-toll-triples-this-year-430218.html


Palestinian death toll triples this year
The number of Palestinians killed by Israeli security forces in the West Bank and Gaza Strip tripled this year, according to an Israeli human rights organisation. B'Tselem said 660 Palestinians had been killed during 2006, including 141 minors. The report claimed that at least 322 of those killed were not fighters.

Israel eclipsed Palestine's 4 year death toll in a single year!

From Amnesty International this year:
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/news/children-and-civilian-bystanders-gaza-death-toll-20080303


Children and civilian bystanders in Gaza death toll

Israeli military air strikes and artillery attacks on the Gaza Strip during the last few days have killed over 100 Palestinians, including dozens of children and other civilian bystanders. Three Israelis – a civilian killed by a rocket fired by a Palestinian armed group on 27 February and two soldiers – were also killed.

Many of the Palestinians killed were militants involved in attacks on Israel, but others were unarmed civilians taking no part in the hostilities, including some 25 children. The precise number of civilians killed is unclear and difficult to establish.

The Israeli chief of staff is reported to have claimed that 90 percent of those killed were militants, but the UN and other sources, including those in Gaza, suggest that as many as half of the dead were civilians. More than 250 other people, including scores of unarmed civilians, have been injured.

Israeli forces also destroyed houses and property across the Gaza Strip, including at least two medical facilities, before withdrawing on 3 March.

Again, Israel ecplises the 4 year death count in just a few days!!

and yet all we hear about is Israel's right to self-defense??

Rhinocerous Surprise

MLC2006 wrote:

nowhere in your quote or in the part that you highlighted do you point out that thousands of Israelis have been murdered by Palestinian terrorists.

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=282665

That thread has all the argument you want on that topic. I'm not gonna say Hamas hasn't committed terrorism. But I'm not gonna sit by and say that justifies Israel's continued actions, nor does it excuse America pledging blind allegiance to a country that's committing just as much terrorism.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

MLC2006 wrote:

yeah, one brief glance over at sabbath.biz is all it takes to prove to a rational person how "legitimate" that site is.

Are you attempting to say just because it isn't aired on Fox or CNN or some other spoon fed American monopolized MSM outlet it isn't legit? If you took a few seconds you would see that their source is http://www.maannews.net/en/index.php?opr=ShowDetails&ID=29007

"Ma'an News Agency initiative is funded by both the Netherlands Ministry of Foreign Affairs, http://www.minbuza.nl/ and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Denmark, Danish International Development Assistance (DANIDA), http://www.um.dk/da. "

Watch this sometime...twice if necessary
http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-2451908450811690589&q=occupation++101&ei=GronSN-oK6GE_AHR0ODlCQ&hl=en

NeverbeenLedbetter

not to add too much fuel to this blaze, but outside of the websites which can be spotty at best sometimes - "Palestine and the Arab-Israeli Conflict" by Charles D. Smith gives a pretty good historical perspective on the topic, although I just have the 3rd edition which is copyright 1996 which doesn't do much for the last 12 years but it is important to know the roots of this problem.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Speaking of root causes...

I hate to break the news to the Zionist mindset, but the rapture ain't coming...

You aren't gong to float up into the air and fly to heaven anytime ever..

and of rational v.s. irrational..

pretty easy to spot the irrationality here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQRiAnYj4gY

catefrances

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AaL1Se38gg

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=54913&sectionid=3510203

"Democratic White House contender Barack Obama says the US would be fully committed to Israel's security if he is elected president.

"America's commitment to Israel's security is unshakable," the 46-year-old presidential hopeful said Thursday during a brief speech at a celebration to mark the 60th anniversary of Israel.

"I am absolutely convinced that our friendship between the two nations is unbreakable, the Illinois senator added.
"

he's absolutely convinced huh? why would he need to be in the first place?

and just cause he is convinced, doesnt mean its a good idea or the right thing.

Abookamongstthemany

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f301/shergald/CNI.jpg

Rhinocerous Surprise

Abookamongstthemany wrote:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f301/shergald/CNI.jpg

I like the idea that John McCain could run.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

catefrances wrote:

he's absolutely convinced huh? why would he need to be in the first place?

and just cause he is convinced, doesnt mean its a good idea or the right thing.

I don't see how a supposedly peace loving candidate gets the notion to polarize a nation to one side on an issue.

Since when is it about picking sides that lead to biblically prophesied Armageddon type confrontation?

I though peace was about trying to live together...

Apparently it's about proudly supporting Zionism for the next 600 years if necessary (according to Barak's own words)

......actually....that sounds a lot like like McCain.

catefrances

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

I don't see how a supposedly peace loving candidate gets the notion to polarize a nation to one side on an issue.

Since when is it about picking sides that lead to biblically prophesied Armageddon type confrontation?

I though peace was about trying to live together...

Apparently it's about proudly supporting Zionism for the next 600 years if necessary (according to Barak's own words)

......actually....that sounds a lot like like McCain.

its about getting elected isnt it? and staying there, right?

so you suck up to those who can apparently theoretically hurt you the most and fuck the right thing.
i can not abide the blind allegience to the israeli government.

israel and the occupied territories?... um... hello...israel IS the occupied territories.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

catefrances wrote:

its about getting elected isnt it? and staying there, right?

so you suck up to those who can apparently theoretically hurt you the most and fuck the right thing.
i can not abide the blind allegience to the israeli government.

israel and the occupied territories?... um... hello...israel IS the occupied territories.

It's a pretty sad state of affairs when a world "superpower" is allowed to be conducted according to biblical prophecy and end times mentality in determining foreign policy.

The Christians believe when the rapture comes (and it will come...and soon :rolleyes: ) that the Jews who haven't converted to Christianity will perish. Win win for the ultra right wing bible thumping conservatives. The Jews are going to help the Christians, and in the end the Christians will have it all :rolleyes:

I guess some people think were living in the bible literally, and it's all true word for word...

I say get them the F--- out of office before they blow the place sky high over an antiquated book of parables.