Obama: I pledge allegiance to Israel

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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    El_Kabong wrote:
    just google: occupied territories and you should find answers easy enough

    this is what i love.. the occupied territories is not that land which the jews stole but that which the palestinians are 'surviving' on. huh? how does that work?


    http://www.pmwatch.org/pmw/snakebite/Wars.html


    'In late 1947 the United Nations proposed that Palestine be divided into a Palestinian Arab state and a Jewish state. The UN Partition Plan recommended that 55 percent of Palestine, and the most fertile region, be given to the Jewish settlers who compromised 30 percent of the population. The remaining 45 percent of Palestine was to comprise a home for the other 70 percent of the population who were Palestinians. The Palestinians rejected the plan because it was unfair. Israel and its supporters claim that the Arabs first attacked in Janurary 1948 and then invaded Israel in May 1948.


    The truth is that by May 1948 Zionist forces had already invaded and occupied large parts of the land which had been allocated to the Palestinians by the UN Partition Plan.


    ...it is not true that the Arabs "invaded Israel" in 1948. First, Israel did not exist at the time of the alleged invasion as an established state with recognised bounderies. When the Zionist leaders established Israel on 15 May 1948 they purposely declined to declare the bounderies of the new state in order to allow for future expansion.



    Secondly, the only territory to which the new state of Israel had even a remote claim was that alloted to the Jewish state by the UN Partition Plan. But the Zionists had already attacked areas that were alloted to the Palestinian Arab state.



    Thirdly, those areas which the Arab states purportedly

    "invaded" were, in fact, exclusively areas alloted to the

    Palestinian Arab state proposed by the UN Partition Plan. The so-called Arab invasion was a defensive attempt to hold on to the areas alloted by the Partition Plan for the Palestinian state.



    Finally, the commander of Jordan's Arab Legion, was under

    orders not to enter the areas alloted to the Jewish state

    (Sir John Bagot Glubb, "The Battle for Jerusalem", Middle

    East International, May 1973).'
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    http://ifamericansknew.org/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWjYHP91gA
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Some further questions that should probably be addressed:

    http://homo-sapien-underground.blogspot.com/2007/02/is-aipac-making-monkey-out-of-you_2660.html
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    http://peoplesgeography.files.wordpress.com/2006/12/mr-fish-israel-attempting-to-get-rid-of-antsemitism.gif


    :D
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=832668&contrassID=1&subContrassID=1

    "That effort begins with a clear and strong commitment to the security of Israel: Our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy," he added. "That will always be my starting point."

    In what may have been a veiled reference to reports of American opposition to Israeli negotations with Syria, Obama said: "We should never seek to dictate what is best for the Israelis and their security interests. No Israeli prime minister should ever feel dragged to or blocked from the negotiating table by the United States."

    The Illinois senator also called for continued American military assistance to Israel. "We must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs," he said.

    Obama added that he was concerned about the Palestinian unity government accord.





    yeah, how dare we try to get the 2 of them to make peace?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • wolfamongwolves
    wolfamongwolves Posts: 2,414
    MLC2006 wrote:
    I just don't know what part you're referring to as being "illegal"?
    I assume he's referring to the ever-increasing number of Israeli settlements on the Palestinian side of the green line, which are unequivocally in violation of international law. Does that answer your question?
    93: Slane
    96: Cork, Dublin
    00: Dublin
    06: London, Dublin
    07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
    09: Manchester, London
    10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
    11: San José
    12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    MLC2006 wrote:
    elaborate please? illegal settlements? set up when? pre-1900? post WWI? post WWII? 1960s? 1990s? when exactly did these "illegal settlements" that you speak of come about?
    is it cold under that rock?
  • MLC2006
    MLC2006 Posts: 861
    wolfamongwolves wrote:
    I assume he's referring to the ever-increasing number of Israeli settlements on the Palestinian side of the green line, which are unequivocally in violation of international law. Does that answer your question?


    by "green line", you are referring to the boundary line that the Palesinian government refuses to recognize, correct?
  • MLC2006
    MLC2006 Posts: 861
    _FiveAgainstOne_ wrote:
    is it cold under that rock?

    probably not as cold as the rock that the people (like you) who get their opinions from Roland live under.
  • sweetpotato
    sweetpotato Posts: 1,278
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AaL1Se38gg

    http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=54913&sectionid=3510203

    "Democratic White House contender Barack Obama says the US would be fully committed to Israel's security if he is elected president.

    "America's commitment to Israel's security is unshakable," the 46-year-old presidential hopeful said Thursday during a brief speech at a celebration to mark the 60th anniversary of Israel.

    "I am absolutely convinced that our friendship between the two nations is unbreakable, the Illinois senator added.
    "

    i'm not sure how i feel about this, since i'm on the fence about israel in general. on one hand, i think that they have a right to exist and have a place on earth to call their own, and that they do have some amount of claim to that particular piece of land. on the other hand, i hate what they have done and are still doing to palestinians. it's not an easy situation, and i'm not sure it's as black and white an issue as someof you make it out to be.

    a very, very good book on the subject is Arab and Jew: Wounded Spirits in a Promised Land. tells both sides with compassion for each of their experiences. while it doesn't tell you WHAT to think about the situation, it does help you with HOW to think about it.
    "Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."

    "Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore

    "i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
    ~ed, 8/7
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    MLC2006 wrote:
    probably not as cold as the rock that the people (like you) who get their opinions from Roland live under.

    Please explain and address my posts with your wealth of information and knowledge.

    and explain this as well if you could...
    http://www.google.ca/search?q=jews+against+zionism&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a

    thanks...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • MLC2006
    MLC2006 Posts: 861
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Please explain and address my posts with your wealth of information and knowledge.

    and explain this as well if you could...
    http://www.google.ca/search?q=jews+against+zionism&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a

    thanks...

    you want me to explain your google search? come on dude. your arguments are silly. I already said there are atrocities being committed on both sides. you're the one that wants to see it as a one sided affair. go back to your anti-semite websites.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    MLC2006 wrote:
    you want me to explain your google search? come on dude. your arguments are silly. I already said there are atrocities being committed on both sides. you're the one that wants to see it as a one sided affair. go back to your anti-semite websites.

    Explain why Jews are against Zionism...

    thanks
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • NMyTree
    NMyTree Posts: 2,374
    It's always interesting when anyone suggests Israel should be held accountable for their barbaric and violent actions; immediately one is labeled an anti-semite.

    How pathetic.

    In fact, any criticism towards Israel or Jews in general; often achieves the same result.
  • MLC2006
    MLC2006 Posts: 861
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Explain why Jews are against Zionism...

    thanks

    out of 15 million Jews on earth, you want me to explain how you did a google search and found a handfull of SUPPOSED Jews who are against Zionism. get the fuck out.
  • MLC2006
    MLC2006 Posts: 861
    NMyTree wrote:
    It's always interesting when anyone suggests Israel should be held accountable for their barbaric and violent actions; immediately one is labeled an anti-semite.

    How pathetic.

    In fact, any criticism towards Israel or Jews in general; often achieves the same result.

    yeah, posting a website link from an anti-Israel "news agency" reporting on imaginary atrocities in order to defame Jews.....I'd call that anti-Semitic.
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    MLC2006 wrote:
    out of 15 million Jews on earth, you want me to explain how you did a google search and found a handfull of SUPPOSED Jews who are against Zionism. get the fuck out.

    supposed? handful? Israel has the highest instance of soldiers who refuse to serve.

    Explain the reality of it...

    If you can. Quite frankly I don't think you're capable of understanding it, or we'd be there already by now...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • sweetpotato
    sweetpotato Posts: 1,278
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    supposed? handful? Israel has the highest instance of soldiers who refuse to serve.

    Explain the reality of it...

    If you can. Quite frankly I don't think you're capable of understanding it, or we'd be there already by now...

    see, now this is what i don't understand. why does a debate need to turn all nasty and personal like this? why do you feel the need to tell him he's not "capable of understanding" something? that really has no place here, imo. disagreeing is not the same as not understanding. but the next thing we know, you'll be accusing HIM of getting personal & nasty. just stop the silly schoolyard shit and debate like a man.
    "Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."

    "Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore

    "i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
    ~ed, 8/7
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    sweetpotato wrote:
    see, now this is what i don't understand. why does a debate need to turn all nasty and personal like this? why do you feel the need to tell him he's not "capable of understanding" something? that really has no place here, imo. disagreeing is not the same as not understanding. but the next thing we know, you'll be accusing HIM of getting personal & nasty. just stop the silly schoolyard shit and debate like a man.


    Follow the thread... at this point there's no other explanation.

    I took the insults....presented the info ....same diff

    enough is enough..

    time to cut through the bullshit and get to the point
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
    ( o.O)
    (")_(")
  • fuck
    fuck Posts: 4,069
    sweetpotato wrote:
    see, now this is what i don't understand. why does a debate need to turn all nasty and personal like this? why do you feel the need to tell him he's not "capable of understanding" something? that really has no place here, imo. disagreeing is not the same as not understanding. but the next thing we know, you'll be accusing HIM of getting personal & nasty. just stop the silly schoolyard shit and debate like a man.
    keep in mind that debating with someone like MLC2006 is a waste of time when his argument is "which illegal settlements are you talking about?"...

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