Gun rampage in Nebraska shopping mall.

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  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Jeanie wrote:
    yeah, there it is again. the worshipping of the almighty dollar over human beings. sad. very sad.

    like i said, welcome to america. profit is the only value we hold truly sacred.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Jeanie wrote:
    You throw your hands up and expect that people should just accept the status quo and I'm off my meds?
    You surely must have laws in place about workplaces and employment?
    You have to have gun training in order to carry a gun as a security guard here and you have to have passed all kinds of tests to get the job too. If a pissy little non entity country like Australia can manage some kind of regulation and training with regards to security guards how come the Great White Hope hasn't managed it?
    ...
    There... you said it, "You have to have gun training in order to carry a gun as a security guard here and you have to have passed all kinds of tests to get the job too."
    The same goes here... anyone who carries a firearm requires trainning. Our mall security Guards DO NOT CARRY FIREARMS. If they did, they would not be working for minimum wage.
    ...
    do you think we know when and where these things will occur. We don't. We don't know where the next Eric Harris is... so, sholud we treat our schools as heavily guarded encampments? All of our students as potential mass killers? How do we protect all of our schools? Tell me... because I want to know.
    Same goes for our malls. You don't even make the slightest effort to acknowledge that there are millions of Malls in America. Which one should we protect? All of Them? Along with all of our schools?
    We have also had mass killings at our Universities at our McDonalds and Ruby's Diners... armed guards there, too? How many armed people do you think it will require to cover every mall... every school, university, McDonalds and every Ruby's? You are simply adding more guns in the mix and that won't fix shit.
    ...
    All we know is there are more nuts out there. Who are they? Where are they? When are they going to strike? Answer those questions... that'll help.
    You offer no solution. We have problems here that are uniquely American and we have to deal with them. It's not like we haven't confronted this problem for decades, now... do you think you idea is so unique that is hasn't been brought up before?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • norm
    norm Posts: 31,146
    hmmmm....reading this thread as it is to this point and it got me thinking....1) if everyone is armed, then the mental deficient that wants to go out in a blaze of glory knows he can't walk into the mall and start shooting because he will probably be gunned down before he takes out a few.....so now what?.....well fertilizer and diesel fuel are still readily available.....you can kill so much more and make a bigger "bang"......and 2) although i make it a habit to never enter a mall, if i need to, i do not want it to look like tel aviv or beruit.....
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    There... you said it, "You have to have gun training in order to carry a gun as a security guard here and you have to have passed all kinds of tests to get the job too."
    The same goes here... anyone who carries a firearm requires trainning. Our mall security Guards DO NOT CARRY FIREARMS. If they did, they would not be working for minimum wage.
    ...
    do you think we know when and where these things will occur. We don't. We don't know where the next Eric Harris is... so, sholud we treat our schools as heavily guarded encampments? All of our students as potential mass killers? How do we protect all of our schools? Tell me... because I want to know.
    Same goes for our malls. You don't even make the slightest effort to acknowledge that there are millions of Malls in America. Which one should we protect? All of Them? Along with all of our schools?
    We have also had mass killings at our Universities at our McDonalds and Ruby's Diners... armed guards there, too? How many armed people do you think it will require to cover every mall... every school, university, McDonalds and every Ruby's? You are simply adding more guns in the mix and that won't fix shit.
    ...
    All we know is there are more nuts out there. Who are they? Where are they? When are they going to strike? Answer those questions... that'll help.
    You offer no solution. We have problems here that are uniquely American and we have to deal with them. It's not like we haven't confronted this problem for decades, now... do you think you idea is so unique that is hasn't been brought up before?

    Let's stick to your plan then and just accept that people are gonna die and there's nothing we can do about it.
    With that kind of attitude I don't know why you'd be bothered being against guns in the first place. I mean what do you care?
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    Jeanie wrote:
    Let's stick to your plan then and just accept that people are gonna die and there's nothing we can do about it.
    With that kind of attitude I don't know why you'd be bothered being against guns in the first place. I mean what do you care?
    ...
    This is really a piece of work... really. And i mean that in the most sincere... I can't believe I Am even responding to her moronic statement... kind of way.
    Do you think i do not understand the complexities of the American gun debate and i don't see nor understand the Second Amendment Rights arguements... and that these arguements about gun control have gone around and around and around for decades... and from that... that I, or anyone else who disagrees with you, are somehow okay the random killings? A real piece of work, there.
    ...
    Okay... we'll just leave it at that because you are apparently unable to see anything other than black and white on this issue. Just go ahead and keep on believing what you believe and keep believing that you have a viable, working solution that Americans are either too dense to have come up with or too stupid to see. Oh, and that I think it's okay that psychos go on shooting rampages.
    The idea that places well-paid, well-trained and armed security guards at every possible location where a random shooting in America MAY take place is so simple that only a simpleton could come up with.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    This is really a piece of work... really. And i mean that in the most sincere... I can't believe I Am even responding to her moronic statement... kind of way.
    Do you think i do not understand the complexities of the American gun debate and i don't see nor understand the Second Amendment Rights arguements... and that these arguements about gun control have gone around and around and around for decades... and from that... that I, or anyone else who disagrees with you, are somehow okay the random killings? A real piece of work, there.
    ...
    Okay... we'll just leave it at that because you are apparently unable to see anything other than black and white on this issue. Just go ahead and keep on believing what you believe and keep believing that you have a viable, working solution that Americans are either too dense to have come up with or too stupid to see. Oh, and that I think it's okay that psychos go on shooting rampages.
    The idea that places well-paid, well-trained and armed security guards at every possible location where a random shooting in America MAY take place is so simple that only a simpleton could come up with.

    Why would I have any faith in your motives or argument if the best you can do is degenerate into petty insults?

    I can see way past black and white on this issue Cosmo but you don't seem to be able to see that I can. You seem to expect nothing more from me so I'm not sure how I'm supposed to get around that.

    You say that this is complicated and it's too simplistic to train and arm security guards to protect people but for the short term as an immediate workable plan WHILE you're busy changing attitudes and working at all the other complex issues of the argument WHY is it not viable?
    Is it really worth sitting on your hands OR grinding away slowly at the wheel hoping for the ultimate disarmament of your countrymen while this keeps happening? Because I don't think you think it's acceptable for people to keep dying while you work it all out BUT that's what's going to happen wouldn't you say? So perhaps extreme circumstances call for extreme measures in the short term?
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    onelongsong wrote:
    exactly; but until his ignorance of our situation changes; there's no middle ground to be found. he wasn't bashing me. if he was i would have considered the source. he was bashing every american. i was the one that stood up to him. i posted my use of guns in a post above. i'm sure you would find it reasonable. i also posted to jeremy my true thoughts on deadly force. i know you'd agree with those. so i'm not being unreasonable. bigots will be bigots so you've got to let it go.
    I may just be reading this wrong, and I have had a drink or seven but i hope that you aren't referring to me as a bigot here...

    I'd like to think we got a bit past that.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • Uncle Leo
    Uncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    Jeanie wrote:
    Let's stick to your plan then and just accept that people are gonna die and there's nothing we can do about it.

    You should see how we do that with automobiles.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    Uncle Leo wrote:
    You should see how we do that with automobiles.

    Well here we've managed a psuedo solution regarding cars by increasing our revenue with endless fines in the name of road safety.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • Deadman
    Deadman Posts: 795
    puremagic wrote:
    Question, does this mall have security guards, if so, are they armed guards? Most high end stores employee security guards. Malls usually put on extra guards around the holidays.

    Sorry to hear about this event. Take care.

    I'm sure there's a few throughout the whole mall. Obviously not enough I've taken notice of... cuz really, i'm not even sure. I'd venture to guess there are probably a couple armed... for the whole mall.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I may just be reading this wrong, and I have had a drink or seven but i hope that you aren't referring to me as a bigot here...

    I'd like to think we got a bit past that.

    jeremy; would i invite you into my home and call you a bigot? you've been here trying to understand and trying to find answers. bigotry is closing your mind and demanding that you are right; then calling those who don't follow you names. you haven't done that so i don't know how you could think i was referring to you. i'm talking about closed mindedness in general. i wasn't referring to just one person. things are much different here than in the uk. you showed a genuine interest to learn those differences; and that's why i opened my home to you.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    onelongsong wrote:
    jeremy; would i invite you into my home and call you a bigot? you've been here trying to understand and trying to find answers. bigotry is closing your mind and demanding that you are right; then calling those who don't follow you names. you haven't done that so i don't know how you could think i was referring to you. i'm talking about closed mindedness in general. i wasn't referring to just one person. things are much different here than in the uk. you showed a genuine interest to learn those differences; and that's why i opened my home to you.
    My bad :) see PM.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    My bad :) see PM.

    the uk is still mother england to me. things are much different there and things or ideals that work there; won't work here and i want to find out why. you didn't say that you're right and i'm wrong; you helped me understand; and i respect that more than anything else.
  • Jeremy1012
    Jeremy1012 Posts: 7,170
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    And still, nowhere close to the US stats-wise.
    I'm probably arguing against my own opinion here but stats don't mean shit to a person who is directly affected. Whether or not the shootings round the corner from my university halls are rare and not close to the US stats-wise (because while it is a predominantly black, predominantly poor area, the university means that in term time, half of the people there are middle class white people like myself), if I walk back from the pub at 1am and get shot by some crack dealer because I went down the wrong street and he fancied his chances with my wallet, my parents are sure going to care about it. Whether or not it is a rarity doesn't really matter. We're talking life here.
    "I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    Jeremy1012 wrote:
    I'm probably arguing against my own opinion here but stats don't mean shit to a person who is directly affected. Whether or not the shootings round the corner from my university halls are rare and not close to the US stats-wise (because while it is a predominantly black, predominantly poor area, the university means that in term time, half of the people there are middle class white people like myself), if I walk back from the pub at 1am and get shot by some crack dealer because I went down the wrong street and he fancied his chances with my wallet, my parents are sure going to care about it. Whether or not it is a rarity doesn't really matter. We're talking life here.

    now we're getting to the point. "THOSE EFFECTED" is a key word to me. i lived in a big city and i was effected. i lived in a remote area and i was effected. i was held at gunpoint in my own yard so i was greatly effected.

    my answer was to realize that criminals will always have guns no matter what the laws are. by deffinition; a criminal is someone who doesn't follow the laws. so my answer had to be leveling the field. i must be prepared to protect myself.

    this is what i'm trying to get to: why do you take the position you take? i really want to understand. we have places in the us where you have to be careful what side of the street you walk. you have to watch what colours you wear because different gangs wear different colours.

    i'm trying to understand why 2 different people effected by similar situations come to completely different conclusions. you've admitted that disarming honest law abiding citizens didn't remove guns from the hands of criminals. what do you think the uk's next move should be?

    i ask this with respect because i'm trying to find our common ground.
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    onelongsong wrote:
    now we're getting to the point. "THOSE EFFECTED" is a key word to me. i lived in a big city and i was effected. i lived in a remote area and i was effected. i was held at gunpoint in my own yard so i was greatly effected.

    my answer was to realize that criminals will always have guns no matter what the laws are. by deffinition; a criminal is someone who doesn't follow the laws. so my answer had to be leveling the field. i must be prepared to protect myself.

    this is what i'm trying to get to: why do you take the position you take? i really want to understand. we have places in the us where you have to be careful what side of the street you walk. you have to watch what colours you wear because different gangs wear different colours.

    i'm trying to understand why 2 different people effected by similar situations come to completely different conclusions. you've admitted that disarming honest law abiding citizens didn't remove guns from the hands of criminals. what do you think the uk's next move should be?

    i ask this with respect because i'm trying to find our common ground.

    i guess another way to ask is that i would risk my life to save those innocent people. why wouldn't others?
    if we should have universal healthcare because caring for others is the right thing to do; does it stop at throwing money at the problem and stop there?
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    onelongsong wrote:
    i take it you didn't look at the gunownership chart.

    look in big cities that have strict gunlaws and look at their gun crime rates.

    it's your parenting skills that breed violence. look at the video games you let them play; look at the movies you let them watch. lack of family contact breeds violence. i had my own business cutting lawns at age 8. my dad helped out with the books and profit margins but i did the actual work; and he bought the tractor. if i wasn't in school or working; i was studying. i gave up a lot but retired at age 40; as planned. now i enjoy life while i'm young enough to enjoy the things i like to do. i never had time for violence. i never had time to get into any trouble.

    so; if a vast majority of the folks being killed.... are gun owners or their families; DOES THAT MEAN WE DON'T HAVE CRIMINALS USING GUNS? this is a news flash to me.

    Your segmenting gun owner and criminals...I'm not...I'm saying anyone..that owns a gun has a higher likely hood of dying by a gun...live by the sword..die by the sword..thats all.

    Tell me this...since your so well balanced and live in the country..why are you soo scared of your fellow human? I live in pretty nasty city.....in not so good part of town..yet I've never felt the need to own a gun?
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • onelongsong
    onelongsong Posts: 3,517
    callen wrote:
    Your segmenting gun owner and criminals...I'm not...I'm saying anyone..that owns a gun has a higher likely hood of dying by a gun...live by the sword..die by the sword..thats all.

    Tell me this...since your so well balanced and live in the country..why are you soo scared of your fellow human? I live in pretty nasty city.....in not so good part of town..yet I've never felt the need to own a gun?

    i already posted my need for guns twice. but i'll post it again.
    1) i have a .38 with a snake load
    2) i have a .22 with birdshot to control buffalo getting out of hand
    3) i have a .44 with a full load for an attacking buffalo; mountain lion; or other situation where i'm in mortal danger.
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    Jeanie wrote:
    I bet the families of the people that died in Nebraska wish mall security had had guns. Hell I bet the people that were shot dead wished mall security had had guns and used them. I sure as hell know that if I was there and some nutcase was taking pot shots at me while I shopped that I'd want someone, ANYONE that could shoot straight and had a clear shot of the nut job to shoot him.
    If you've seen the level of competence of the average security guard in the US you'd change your mind. If we gave all security guards in the US guns more folks would be accidentally shot by those guns that what would be killed by would be perps.
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG
  • callen
    callen Posts: 6,388
    onelongsong wrote:
    i already posted my need for guns twice. but i'll post it again.
    1) i have a .38 with a snake load
    2) i have a .22 with birdshot to control buffalo getting out of hand
    3) i have a .44 with a full load for an attacking buffalo; mountain lion; or other situation where i'm in mortal danger.
    sooo if you happened to live in a city...were all the evil doers hang out..you wouldn't have a gun??
    10-18-2000 Houston, 04-06-2003 Houston, 6-25-2003 Toronto, 10-8-2004 Kissimmee, 9-4-2005 Calgary, 12-3-05 Sao Paulo, 7-2-2006 Denver, 7-22-06 Gorge, 7-23-2006 Gorge, 9-13-2006 Bern, 6-22-2008 DC, 6-24-2008 MSG, 6-25-2008 MSG

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