will this guy still go to heaven?

NMyTree wrote:

Maybe that's the way you perceive it. But I'm sure many like myself aren't putting ourselves above god. We are questioning what are rather absurd rules, considering he allegedly made us in his own image, with all our weaknesses and vulnerabilities. Yet he punishes us for being who and what we are?

That doesn't sound like an all loving, benign "God". That sounds like a sadistic, egomaniac. Which are of course the traits of character and personality......of a human being.

what i'm trying to understand is why all this? why is it that this man who happens to be a priest now all of a sudden the entire church gets the blame?

the truth is i could sit down and talk to you and explain to you all these things... but you'll just go on and find many other little arguments to excuse it away. and it will never end. if it makes sense to someone... good. if it doesn't.... good. let's leave it at that and if any one commits a crime, believer or not... then let's judge them based on our own human laws.

dunkman wrote:

ok then... why doesnt god forgive those who didnt believe in him?


surely he's just building up resentment and hatred for not just one person... but many millions...

hey, Dunk, what's up?

If you find the history that is out there regarding Jesus, and his death, while He is on the cross, He distinctly said, "forgive them Father, for they do not know what they do............".

He was all about the humble way of life. Those who claimed true hiarchy among others were not those He joined in His life. He always protected those persecuted and pointed out, "let him who is without sin cast the first stone."

Man had made faith and religion a club; not Jesus.

I respect what you believe; truly. But I had to say what I hold true for Jesus in my faith.

All this is our own personal stuff.............you know?

NMyTree wrote:

Says who?

God told you this?

says the church. so i guess tis just dogma and probably nothing to do with God.

if one can not ask forgiveness for the sin they committed(and apparently suicide is a sin. though now that i think about it murder is probably the sin in this case, not specifically that its suicide), then one can not be absolved of that sin. bit difficult to seek absolution if youre already dead.

deadnothingbetter wrote:

what i'm trying to understand is why all this? why is it that this man who happens to be a priest now all of a sudden the entire church gets the blame?

the truth is i could sit down and talk to you and explain to you all these things... but you'll just go on and find many other little arguments to excuse it away. and it will never end. if it makes sense to someone... good. if it doesn't.... good. let's leave it at that and if any one commits a crime, believer or not... then let's judge them based on our own human laws.

Well, I really wasn't focusing on the entire church. I was merely questioning and criticizing what I consider to be absurd "religion-based rules" and implying that maybe, just maybe.......these so-called rules of god, are really nothing more than rules of men. Rules designed and created by certain human beings with intentions other than concern fot your spiritual soul.

But since you bring up "The Church"......

"The Church " has spent decade after decade protecting, sheltering, denying, lying and circling the wagons regarding all the pedophilia and sexual abuse perpetrated by their Priests/Clergy.

They only finally admited it and so-called addressed the problem after it became such widespread knowledge. For decades they kept it all under lock and key. The world was a bigger place with very little forms of quick communication and alternative news sources. But the world shrunk on them and with satelite TV, digital cable and the internet; it became more and more difficult for them to shuffle their twisted phedophiles around from place to place.

The Church was complicit not only in permitting these crimes to occur, as well in covering it up and protecting criminals.

So why should "The Church " be spared of severe criticism and condemnation?

Afterall, is Religion not (any religion ) just a tool used by human beings, to manipulate the masses and condemn those who don't conform and follow?

It's very interesting that these religions create a Catch 22 and basically attempt to push people into a corner of fear; by intellectually, emotionally and spiritually handcuffing them to their religion of choice.

Hey, if you don't "Believe" you're going to hell.

Am I the only one who finds that extremely manipulative, self-serving, sadistic and outright oppressive?

What kind of all-loving God creates us in his own image, with all our genetic/character flaws, weaknesses and vulnerabilities. Yet he punishes us for being what he created?

That doesn't sound like an all-loving god. That sounds like the works and traits of human beings.

And if is in fact a God who came up with this rubbish, then, I do not praise, worship or obey anyone or any god who treats his most beloved creations like little pieces of dirt for his sadistic and vicious amusement.

NMyTree wrote:

The Church is full of crap. Has been for thousands of years. All "churchs" and all religions.

youre preaching to the choir, 'tree. im an atheist.

NMyTree wrote:

Well, I really wasn't focusing on the entire church. I was merely questioning and criticizing what I consider to be absurd "religion-based rules" and implying that maybe, just maybe.......these so-called rules of god, are really nothing more than rules of men. Rules designed and created by certain human beings with intentions other than concern fot your spiritual soul.

But since you bring up "The Church"......

"The Church " has spent decade after decade protecting, sheltering, denying, lying and circling the wagons regarding all the pedophilia and sexual abuse perpetrated by their Priests/Clergy.

They only finally admited it and so-called addressed the problem after it became such widespread knowledge. For decades they kept it all under lock and key. The world was a bigger place with very little forms of quick communication and alternative news sources. But the world shrunk on them and with satelite TV, digital cable and the internet; it became more and more difficult for them to shuffle their twisted phedophiles around from place to place.

The Church was complicit not only in permitting these crimes to occur, as well in covering it up and protecting criminals.

So why should "The Church " be spared of severe criticism and condemnation?

Afterall, is Religion not (any religion ) just a tool used by human beings, to manipulate the masses and condemn those who don't conform and follow?

It's very interesting that these religions create a Catch 22 and basically attempt to push people into a corner of fear; by intellectually, emotionally and spiritually handcuffing them to their religion of choice.

Hey, if you don't "Believe" you're going to hell.

Am I the only one who finds that extremely manipulative, self-serving, sadistic and outright oppressive?

What kind of all-loving God creates us in his own image, with all our genetic/character flaws, weaknesses and vulnerabilities. Yet he punishes us for being what he created?

That doesn't sound like an all-loving god. That sounds like the works and traits of human beings.

And if is in fact a God who came up with this rubbish, then, I do not praise, worship or obey anyone or any god who treats his most beloved creations like little pieces of dirt for his sadistic and vicious amusement.

I guess if it's beyond your understanding, then it must not be true...especially when trying to explain something as simple as the CREATOR of the universe.

Do you know how arrogant you sound to imply that your understanding and knowledge must be as great or greater than God's for God to exist?

know1 wrote:

Do you know how arrogant you sound to imply that your understanding and knowledge must be as great or greater than God's for God to exist?

Do you know how arrogant you ( and all overly-religious people) sound when you attempt to convince, impose, bully and preach that your religion...your god is the only true god and law?

Including the infusion of "God" into common law and everything on the political landscape.


Furthermore, my understanding, knowledge, perception of God's existence is based on the so-called words of "God". Which undoubedtly were written by human beings, not a "God".

And as always I question the works of men and find huge holes and hypocrisies in the words of these alleged Gods.

If that makes me arrogant in your eyes, so be it.

I'd rather be considered arrogant than to praise and bow to such vicious and hypocritical religious "laws".

catch22 wrote:

i'm willing to bet nobody touches this. they never do. nobody wants to admit their belief system makes eternity about as just as the OJ case.

Nobody wants to touch it because it blows the doors off an utterly manipulative and self-serving concept; that was designed to be exactly that. Controling and manipulative.

Instead, I get responses saying I'm arrogant, lol.

Of course anyone who questions the absurdity of such hypocritical and obvioulsy vicious nonsense; will be dealt the ...." you don't question his sanctity" card.

What else can they say? They know it's ridiculous and it pretty much blows their religion...their "God" .....out of the water. Because it's not their "God " who said or wrote any of it. It was human beings. Men. And to have to actually face and acknowledge that, would ruin their self-perception of self-righteousness and Hollier Than Thou. Which in turn, would completely destroy everything the Republican Party props themselves up on.

NMyTree wrote:

Do you know how arrogant you ( and all overly-religious people) sound when you attempt to convince, impose, bully and preach that your religion...your god is the only true god and law?

Including the infusion of "God" into common law and everything on the political landscape.


Furthermore, my understanding, knowledge, perception of God's existence is based on the so-called words of "God". Which undoubedtly were written by human beings, not a "God".

And as always I question the works of men and find huge holes and hypocrisies in the words of these alleged Gods.

If that makes me arrogant in your eyes, so be it.

I'd rather be considered arrogant than to praise and bow to such vicious and hypocritical religious "laws".

Yeah - because what you're doing here and in all your other posts is so much less bullying, imposing and preaching (sarcasm!). Take a look in the mirror.

I don't do anything even remotely resembling bullying or preaching - on here or in my real life.

NMyTree wrote:

What's even more entertaining is the fact, that if you go by the "true words of Jesus"; just about every christian in this country is completely oblivious and going against what Jesus allegedly preached and the guidelines he suggested for living one's life and how to treat others.

The Republican Party being one of the grossest offenders.

Your broad stereotypes show your ignorance.