Finally Illinois U Wakes Up

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  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    ryan198 wrote:
    Yes but doing a false war dance, usuing false war music, and wearing false dress, and wearing false headress, and wearing false war paint, performed by someone who isn't even Native American is.

    it is all false? says who?
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    So let me get this straight, you see that putting a native american symbol on toilet paper is wrong, that many fans of the UofI buy this and other goods that use this symbol, that the mascot is a complete false depiction of any native american indian tribe, that as part of the mind-numbing assault our country has had on native american culture through popular culture, and government intervention which has led to the genocide of millions, not to mention helped cultivate an ethinic grouping in which 1 in every 3 persons who are a part of it attempt suicide, and you don't want to change -even a little part- of it?
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Okay... Mascot only. How about 'Rabbi Tax Dodger' for the Los Angeles Dodgers? Every time a Dodger hits a home run... the Kike Mascot dives into a pool of money and rolls around in it. Being called a Dodger is not derogatory, is it?

    whenever you are ready to give a real example
    ...
    let me know
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    jlew24asu wrote:
    jury is out on that one. is that considered a racial slur? if native americans say it is then I'll agree.

    but no native americans are crying foul about the illini dancing, his face paint, or outfit. seems more like that recognize it as an honor.
    Yes "Redskin" is the equivalent of "Nigger" which is why Washington, the team that represents our nation's capitol no less, can't get a patent on their logo. And, if you watch the film that I have told you about several times on this thread, you will see that people, specifically Native American students at UofI, and others have complained about the dancing, his face paint, AND outfit.
  • mookie blaylock 10
    mookie blaylock 10 Posts: 4,042
    you can watch and hear the words of native americans in illinois here...this is how they feel about being "mascots"

    http://www.retirethechief.org/notamascot.html
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    jlew24asu wrote:
    it is all false? says who?
    check out Honor or Exploitation, it goes through how everything is all made up...that none of it is tradition, but that the people who have the power at Illinois will keep up the misinformation to its students so that they don't have to change this "tradition".
  • mookie blaylock 10
    mookie blaylock 10 Posts: 4,042
    chiefojibwa wrote:
    seems the same as a white guy in blackface to me...so what's so offensive?

    (sarcasm)

    exactly.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    ryan198 wrote:
    Yes "Redskin" is the equivalent of "Nigger" which is why Washington, the team that represents our nation's capitol no less, can't get a patent on their logo. And, if you watch the film that I have told you about several times on this thread, you will see that people, specifically Native American students at UofI, and others have complained about the dancing, his face paint, AND outfit.

    ok I may be with you on redskin. I am no fan of that name. but illini. not that same
  • Solat13
    Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    I think all mascots should be like this one:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Keggy_the_Keg.JPG

    Unless people find it offensive that it offends recovering alcoholics. ;)
    - Busted down the pretext
    - 8/28/98
    - 9/2/00
    - 4/28/03, 5/3/03, 7/3/03, 7/5/03, 7/6/03, 7/9/03, 7/11/03, 7/12/03, 7/14/03
    - 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 10/1/04, 10/2/04
    - 9/11/05, 9/12/05, 9/13/05, 9/30/05, 10/1/05, 10/3/05
    - 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 5/27/06, 5/28/06, 5/30/06, 6/1/06, 6/3/06, 6/23/06, 7/22/06, 7/23/06, 12/2/06, 12/9/06
    - 8/2/07, 8/5/07
    - 6/19/08, 6/20/08, 6/22/08, 6/24/08, 6/25/08, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 7/1/08
    - 8/23/09, 8/24/09, 9/21/09, 9/22/09, 10/27/09, 10/28/09, 10/30/09, 10/31/09
    - 5/15/10, 5/17/10, 5/18/10, 5/20/10, 5/21/10, 10/23/10, 10/24/10
    - 9/11/11, 9/12/11
    - 10/18/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 11/30/13, 12/4/13
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    wait blackface is offensive? but it was a tradition right? and apparantly if changing that tradition will make money for someone then it shouldn't be changed.
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    mookie blaylock 10 wrote:
    exactly.


    thats twice. how long have you been a cheerleader? feel free to add to the discussion at any time.
  • farfromglorified
    farfromglorified Posts: 5,700
    ryan198 wrote:
    So let me get this straight, you see that putting a native american symbol on toilet paper is wrong

    Not really, no. I think it's silly and ridiculous. But "wrong"??? Maybe that word is a bit too strong for me and carries different connotations than it does for you.
    that many fans of the UofI buy this and other goods that use this symbol, that the mascot is a complete false depiction of any native american indian tribe, that as part of the mind-numbing assault our country has had on native american culture through popular culture, and government intervention which has led to the genocide of millions, not to mention helped cultivate an ethinic grouping in which 1 in every 3 persons who are a part of it attempt suicide, and you don't want to change -even a little part- of it?

    If you think getting rid of Chief Illiniwek is going to "change the culture" or pull anyone off the noose, I'm not sure we can have anything approaching a reasonable discussion.
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Okay... Mascot only. How about 'Rabbi Tax Dodger' for the Los Angeles Dodgers? Every time a Dodger hits a home run... the Kike Mascot dives into a pool of money and rolls around in it. Being called a Dodger is not derogatory, is it?


    And the rest of us could say that we see nothing wrong with it while others complain.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • mookie blaylock 10
    mookie blaylock 10 Posts: 4,042
    jlew24asu wrote:
    thats twice. how long have you been a cheerleader? feel free to add to the discussion at any time.

    read the thread...and the other one i cited.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    jlew24asu wrote:
    whenever you are ready to give a real example
    ...
    let me know
    ...
    It's the same thing. If only the Jews complained... so what, why listen to them? Native Americans have been complaining about the Redskins (who represent the Nation's Capitol)... and people claim heritage for the team, disregarding heritage for a people.
    If non-Jews complained... well, they're just bleeding heart Political Correctness nuts and who cares what they think... they get offended by everything.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • jlew24asu
    jlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    It's the same thing. If only the Jews complained... so what, why listen to them? Native Americans have been complaining about the Redskins (who represent the Nation's Capitol)... and people claim heritage for the team, disregarding heritage for a people.
    If non-Jews complained... well, they're just bleeding heart Political Correctness nuts and who cares what they think... they get offended by everything.


    we arent talking about the redskins. like I said, I'm no fan of that name.
    ...
    we are takling about the illini. which in no way is offensive unlike your cute jew example.
  • ryan198
    ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Not really, no. I think it's silly and ridiculous. But "wrong"??? Maybe that word is a bit too strong for me and carries different connotations than it does for you. If you think getting rid of Chief Illiniwek is going to "change the culture" or pull anyone off the noose, I'm not sure we can have anything approaching a reasonable discussion.
    So if I had a team called the Ayn Rand's, and I had Ayn Rand toilet paper where I wiped shit on her face you'd be cool with that? Actually you probably wouldn't have a problem with it b/c there are positive depictions of Ayn Rand in popular and general culture, so you had alternatives to go to. Native American's simply don't have those alternatives, or very few anyway. Secondly, I'm not saying people are going to stop committing suicide in that community just because racist mascots are disbanded, I'm just saying that by removing these false and negative depictions of their culture we can create alternative, and more positive forms than we have now...which could then help change the culture.

    Anyway, you're argument style is always the same, you see something you disagree with then simplify and stupidify the argument b/c you don't like it. In addition to just being wrong, you also frustrate people like me who actually take time and put thought into their posts. You aren't open to alternative views, and just cause fights. Conversely, I just had a great PM/Email convo with chopitdown, b/c even though he disagrees with me, and probably will continue to, at least is taking the time to read some of the evidence I've used to shape my opinion on Native American Mascots...to me that's respectable, and respectful disagreement - which is the aim of this board.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    jlew24asu wrote:
    we arent talking about the redskins. like I said, I'm no fan of that name.
    ...
    we are takling about the illini. which in no way is offensive unlike your cute jew example.
    ...
    It is any people who are depicted as stereo-types, here... not just the name. The 'Dodgers' is just a name, just like the 'Illini'... yeah, nothing offensive with either. It's the mascot the Illini use... the Indian... that is the center of this. Just as if the Dodgers picked a Jew or a black or Hispanic as their mascot and had them run through stero-typical routines.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • mookie blaylock 10
    mookie blaylock 10 Posts: 4,042
    ryan198 wrote:
    So if I had a team called the Ayn Rand's, and I had Ayn Rand toilet paper where I wiped shit on her face you'd be cool with that? Actually you probably wouldn't have a problem with it b/c there are positive depictions of Ayn Rand in popular and general culture, so you had alternatives to go to. Native American's simply don't have those alternatives, or very few anyway. Secondly, I'm not saying people are going to stop committing suicide in that community just because racist mascots are disbanded, I'm just saying that by removing these false and negative depictions of their culture we can create alternative, and more positive forms than we have now...which could then help change the culture.

    Anyway, you're argument style is always the same, you see something you disagree with then simplify and stupidify the argument b/c you don't like it. In addition to just being wrong, you also frustrate people like me who actually take time and put thought into their posts. You aren't open to alternative views, and just cause fights. Conversely, I just had a great PM/Email convo with chopitdown, b/c even though he disagrees with me, and probably will continue to, at least is taking the time to read some of the evidence I've used to shape my opinion on Native American Mascots...to me that's respectable, and respectful disagreement - which is the aim of this board.

    very well said ryan 198. some people see the issue as something small or petty, but they fail to realize that it is something that is part of a greater wrong. they fail to recognize that is a small step in the right direction toward equality and respect.
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    mookie blaylock 10 wrote:
    very well said ryan 198. some people see the issue as something small or petty, but they fail to realize that it is something that is part of a greater wrong. they fail to recognize that is a small step in the right direction toward equality and respect.
    ...
    Stanford University used to be called the Stanford Indians... Jim Plunkett graduated as an Indian, but by the time John Elway graduated, they were the Cardinal... not the Cardinal bird or the Catholic Cardinals... the color Cardinal. They didn't want to offend the Catholics or the birds.
    Their mascot... the Stanford Tree. The one and only true mascot that should be in existance.
    http://espn.go.com/media/pg2/2001/0314/photo/s_cardtree_i.jpg
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!

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