Finally Illinois U Wakes Up

ryan198

jlew24asu wrote:

but that is a derogatory name for a white guy (cracker). how is being called a Chief Illini the same? its what he is. a chief. and quite cool I might add

A. He's now defunct
B. People who supported him actually spit on, and sexually/physically threatened those Native Americans who opposed his use. It's kind of funny that UofI fans would show more reverence and deference to a white guy in red face than a real Indian.

jlew24asu

ryan198 wrote:

A. He's now defunct
B. People who supported him actually spit on, and sexually/physically threatened those Native Americans who opposed his use. It's kind of funny that UofI fans would show more reverence and deference to a white guy in red face than a real Indian.

I have no idea what the hell you are talking about

ryan198

Go to the library and get the film Act of Honor or Exploitation. It traces the struggle many Native American's have gone through to disrupt the use of Mascots depicting them. It's actually set at the UofI, and quite explicitly shows exactly what I'm talking about.

even flow?

I always thought it was funny watching all the whiteys doing the chop at Braves games without thought as to how many of the whites actually had that happen to them upon their arrival.

jlew24asu

ryan198 wrote:

Go to the library and get the film Act of Honor or Exploitation. It traces the struggle many Native American's have gone through to disrupt the use of Mascots depicting them. It's actually set at the UofI, and quite explicitly shows exactly what I'm talking about.

looks like u of I is honoring him to me.

what about this link that was posted?

http://www.honorthechief.org/tradition.html

jlew24asu

even flow? wrote:

I always thought it was funny watching all the whiteys doing the chop at Braves games without thought as to how many of the whites actually had that happen to them upon their arrival.

how many? apparently wasnt enough

even flow?

jlew24asu wrote:

how many? apparently wasnt enough

Wasn't enough what? We can say that about a lot of races in history, eh. And watch the uproar if we do.

inmytree

chopitdown wrote:

http://www.honorthechief.org/tradition.html

What do actual ancestors of the Illini tribes think of Chief Illiniwek?

Over the years, the Chief Illiniwek tradition has had continued endorsement of Native American descendents. Since the tradition's inception in 1926, there has been considerable support for the Chief by Native American leaders, including several that trace their lineage to the original Illini tribes.

In the past two years, the only scientific opinion polls on the subject have concluded that the majority of Native Americans are not opposed to the use of Indian nicknames—at the high school or college level, or in professional sports. In 2002, a Peter Harris Research Group poll showed that 81% of Native Americans support the use of Indian nicknames in high school and college sports, and 83% of Native Americans support the use of Indian mascots and symbols in professional sports. The accompanying commentary concluded that the “poll suggests that although Native American activists are virtually united in opposition to the use of Indian nicknames and mascots, the Native American population sees the issue far differently.”

In September 2004, the University of Pennsylvania’s National Annenberg Election Survey reported the results of a year-long poll which showed that the vast majority of American Indians say that calling Washington’s professional football team the “Redskins” does not bother them (90% of Indians took that position, while 9% said they found the name “offensive”).

thanks for that...I guess it's no big deal...

ryan198

The link is all well and good, but if you want to see the filmed reality of it watch the film that I posted. It actually shows what people in the coalition against the use of mascots go through, particularly at the UofI. They show that the Illini tribe was all made up, and that the dress is inauthentic and made up for show as well. Then, there's the spitting, and the threats of sex and violence that end up on their answering machines. If people at the UofI are so reverent towards their mascot, why aren't they so respectful of actual Indians is my question?

jlew24asu

ryan198 wrote:

The link is all well and good, but if you want to see the filmed reality of it watch the film that I posted. It actually shows what people in the coalition against the use of mascots go through, particularly at the UofI. They show that the Illini tribe was all made up, and that the dress is inauthentic and made up for show as well. Then, there's the spitting, and the threats of sex and violence that end up on their answering machines. If people at the UofI are so reverent towards their mascot, why aren't they so respectful of actual Indians is my question?

you seem to be more concerned about the people being spit on that the actual use of an Indian mascot.

western pearl

ryan198 wrote:

Chief Illiniwek danced his last racist dance. Could it be that Illinois realized it was acting in a ridiculous manner by allowing an offensive mascot to survive for 81 years, or was it the threat of NCAA sanctions that have ended this minstrel act performed in red-face? Either way it's a step in the right direction, and hopefully others will follow suit.

Most of the tribes support the use of their names as college mascots!!!!

VictoryGin

i never thought i'd see the day. well hopefully they pick something good to replace it. years ago they tossed around the idea of 'prairie fire' and that's just awful.

miller8966

Another example of PC liberalism gone too far. Its a freaking Mascot that danced around!

Its not like they had the mascot walk around and recreate the trail of tears.

ryan198

jlew24asu wrote:

you seem to be more concerned about the people being spit on that the actual use of an Indian mascot.

You got it. My point is that if Indian mascots were so deferential, and invoked such pride and reverence towards real Native Americans in the white people that depict them and "celebrate" them through mascots like the Chief, then wouldn't these people be more respectful in listening to the complaints posed by actual Native American Indians? What I'm pointing out is the irony that the very people who argue that the Chief is a source of pride, are the same individuals who would attack a real person, thus rendering their claims that the Chief is a form of respect towards Native American's is completely illogical.

VictoryGin

ryan198 wrote:

You got it. My point is that if Indian mascots were so deferential, and invoked such pride and reverence towards real Native Americans in the white people that depict them and "celebrate" them through mascots like the Chief, then wouldn't these people be more respectful in listening to the complaints posed by actual Native American Indians? What I'm pointing out is the irony that the very people who argue that the Chief is a source of pride, are the same individuals who would attack a real person, thus rendering their claims that the Chief is a form of respect towards Native American's is completely illogical.

yeah. i think some people just really like to hold onto 'tradition' as we see elsewhere in our culture. and it's hard for those in the power majority to see (or they just don't want to see) how others are oppressed.

ryan198

miller8966 wrote:

Another example of PC liberalism gone too far. Its a freaking Mascot that danced around!

Its not like they had the mascot walk around and recreate the trail of tears.

Miller would you like it if at the next International event when Venezuela is there if they had a team mascot called "the American". The mascot would come out to some rock music like Bushleaguer and be dressed in a corporate business suit and would have a W mask, and would dance around pretending to take money from the minorities in the crowd, and randomly shooting a fake gun at everyone who represented a country other than the U.S. Then other teams would have pep-rally hanging "the American" in effigy, and sing songs about how they were going to kill the American, etc. That's what happens when teams use Native American Mascots to represent them, so it's not a stretch to think that this could happen.

jlew24asu

ryan198 wrote:

You got it. My point is that if Indian mascots were so deferential, and invoked such pride and reverence towards real Native Americans in the white people that depict them and "celebrate" them through mascots like the Chief, then wouldn't these people be more respectful in listening to the complaints posed by actual Native American Indians? What I'm pointing out is the irony that the very people who argue that the Chief is a source of pride, are the same individuals who would attack a real person, thus rendering their claims that the Chief is a form of respect towards Native American's is completely illogical.

so do you support or not support the use of such names like.....

dallas cowboys, Illini, florida Seminoles

if not. why?

ledvedderman

What I don't get is that the Chief wasn't do anything dis-respectful. He would go do a native dance during halftime. If I were an American Indian I would be far more upset about the Cleveland Indians (name and stupid smiling logo) and the Washington Redskins. That's disrespectful.

The feeling at U of I games when the chief is out isn't "look at the moron dancing'' it's very respectful.

farfromglorified

Rue D'Awakening wrote:

in that case you confuse condescension with empathy.

Hehehe....there's nothing "empathetic" about your position. It flies in the face of the way most people view this issue. You're pretending to put yourself in someone else's shoes which is, effectively, no different than what these stupid mascots are doing. Furthermore, you're standing opposed to people who are supporting those mascots for harmless reasons of tradition and identification and have probably never even considered their viewpoints and instead just branded them as racist or ignorant or insensitive.

miller8966

ryan198 wrote:

Miller would you like it if at the next International event when Venezuela is there if they had a team mascot called "the American". The mascot would come out to some rock music like Bushleaguer and be dressed in a corporate business suit and would have a W mask, and would dance around pretending to take money from the minorities in the crowd, and randomly shooting a fake gun at everyone who represented a country other than the U.S. Then other teams would have pep-rally hanging "the American" in effigy, and sing songs about how they were going to kill the American, etc. That's what happens when teams use Native American Mascots to represent them, so it's not a stretch to think that this could happen.

Honestly it doesnt bother me one bit...but i think your going to the extreme here.