Random 10c seating is a GREAT idea

Buru · February 2008

redrock wrote:

GA is exciting and gives everyone an opportunity. OK, GA means that if you want to get to the front, you need to queue. Or, if you know your way around, you can still get close to the front even without queuing that much! You can also move back if need be. Obviously, the moving around is if it is GA standing. GA seating also gives everyone the same opportunity, though seating is not that fun.

I understand there is a huge cultural difference between the US and Europe when it comes to GA and standing. I notice from a lot of threads that the Americans have their 'piss breaks' and go get beers, etc. during the shows. I understand that they would like to get back to their place after that, so I guess assigned seating is best for them!

I'm all for GA as well.

red mos · February 2008

Get_Right wrote:

I agree, Im done with GA.

Agreed, GA shows suck. I'm honestly surprised Pearl jam even does those anymore considering Roskilde and the tragedy that followed.

The who had something similar happen (I think it was CINCY), Even though the circumstances where different, the who never played a GA show after that.

I don't think pj will do GA for a full tour at every stop. San Fran in 2006 was an exception, but for most venues at least where I live, most venues don't have that big of a GA area, and even then you got to pay a ticket price to get up there.

my2hands · February 2008

NeilJam wrote:

Why should the same people be in the first few rows show after show, year after year?

exactly

my2hands · February 2008

Solat13 wrote:

If there was no seniority, what would be the incentive to keep membership current in non-touring years? Just playing Devil's Advocate here.

good point... but i dont think the seniority thing came into play until the 21st century? so why did people sign up in the 90's and stay on?

and if the concern is losing active members, i think doing the tx at random would bring in even more 10c members...

i think the grand rapids 2006 was not a mox up, i think they did it on purpose as an experiment and you saw a weird set list that night as well... ed commented in albany 06 about the same faces upfront EVERY night... and now ed is doing random tix?

seems like they are moving in that direction, for good reason IMO

THINK ABOUt THIS: does pearl Jam really want the first 10 rows all to be 40+ years old in a few years? hell no... they need new blood up in there, and they know it... having only club members from the early 90's up front every night is not allowing newer/younger fans the great experience of sitting close for an amazing show and may even drag down the overall concert energy and vibe... which pearl jam is known for, great shows

i think it would be the best move they ever made...

my2hands · February 2008

bump for future randomness

decides2dream · February 2008

my2hands wrote:

good point... but i dont think the seniority thing came into play until the 21st century? so why did people sign up in the 90's and stay on?

and if the concern is losing active members, i think doing the tx at random would bring in even more 10c members...

i think the grand rapids 2006 was not a mox up, i think they did it on purpose as an experiment and you saw a weird set list that night as well... ed commented in albany 06 about the same faces upfront EVERY night... and now ed is doing random tix?

seems like they are moving in that direction, for good reason IMO

THINK ABOUt THIS: does pearl Jam really want the first 10 rows all to be 40+ years old in a few years? hell no... they need new blood up in there, and they know it... having only club members from the early 90's up front every night is not allowing newer/younger fans the great experience of sitting close for an amazing show and may even drag down the overall concert energy and vibe... which pearl jam is known for, great shows

i think it would be the best move they ever made...

agreed on all points, well except the 40 year olds comment.

i'm not far off. i don't think it has anything to do with age, and even energy, whatever...i just think it would be good for all to mix in 'new blood'...:D even GA shows, as the past 2 eurotours proves, does NOT eliminate the 'same faces' up front, not in the least. the ONLY reason i enjoyed GA WAs the chance to get up front, but even then....tis not all *fair*.........so i really do prefer having assigned space, but yea....mix it up! couple rows of random mixed with seniority seating, one seniority seating show per tour, all your other tix mixed, whatever....just spread the love around to all!

i don't think anyone is trying to change the system so completely to ALWAYS change it to new people ALWAYS getting the firt few rows, but rather, the idea of MANY different people getting the opportunity.....all get a chance at least to have that experience. it will never be possible for EVERY 10c member to get the first row, but give chance/randomness interspersed in there, at least it might be possible. i personally think that's good for ALL, and es, even if it NEVER happens for me....i still think, how cool.

Get_Right · February 2008

loveboat captain wrote:

So, I'm gathering from your argument, as well as the argument of those that support your position, that the long-time fan club members are the only long-time fans of Pearl Jam. I don't believe that's true in all cases, because I know that's not true for myself. I have only recently (well, two years ago) been financially able to devote a little bit of money yearly to 10 club, even though Pearl Jam has been my favorite band since Ten came out. I know it's only $20 a year, but when I was living paycheck to paycheck, it was $20 I didn't have. Things got considerably better for me, so I was finally able to join 10 club in '05. So I have a six digit fan club number that begins with a 3.

The mentality that 10 club membership numbers determine quality of fanhood is the same mentality that some fans have when they say that they're the most loyal fans because they've been to x number of shows. Once again, I've been a big fan for a long time, but my first show was East Rutherford 2 in '06. Total number of shows I've been to: 2. I'm not saying we should take away all the great seats from the people with the lowest numbers, but at least give me a chance...just once...to get in the first 15 rows. Then I will gladly return to the rear of the 10 club seats for each subsequent show.

I dont think that being a member longer means you are a bigger fan or anything like that. That is silly.

Its simple, to date, getting up front is an earned privilege. You will get your chance to be in the first fifteen rows, after three or four tours like the rest.

Somebody suggested randomizing a few rows for newer members. I like that idea, gives some a shot at being up front and doesnt affect senority seating. Win win.

bump to continue senority seating

decides2dream · February 2008

Get_Right wrote:

I dont think that being a member longer means you are a bigger fan or anything like that. That is silly.

Its simple, to date, getting up front is an earned privilege. You will get your chance to be in the first fifteen rows, after three or four tours like the rest.

Somebody suggested randomizing a few rows for newer members. I like that idea, gives some a shot at being up front and doesnt affect senority seating. Win win.

bump to continue senority seating

drop the *earned* language and i agree to some extent. $100 of membership dues, at most, does not *earn* anything...it is a privilege, but NOT earned, nor ever promised from the beginning. that is all. and to say others will 'get their chance'...simply isn't true. anyone with great seniority today is NOT going to drop it. and........

as to waiting 3 or 4 more tours...isn't that the point? pearl jam is not infinite, they like the rest of us mere mortal are finite, and how many tours will there be? just sayin'..........i hope for many, many, more though!

and that was me

...amongst many others i am sure. i've been singing that tune a fw years now whenever this subject comes up. i think that for MOST, that's all they really desire - at least the CHANCE, at any show, to possibly get close, experience that joy and rush.

i am thankful i've experienced the first row GA, 7x, first 5 rows seated, 3x, and 8th-17th probably 5x....all the rest, all over the map due to my mediocre # - the 'good' seats due to travel/sharing, and GA shows.

1STmammal2wearPants · February 2008

I'd like a seat in the front rows some time. Been a Ten Club member for five years now. Doesn't make me any less of a fan than those who have had the same seats for over a decade now. Doesn't have to be a permanent thing, but I'd like for the 10c to share the wealth a bit.

PureandEasy · February 2008

decides2dream wrote:

actually, um, no it's not....not by a long shot. unless you consider 2000 the beginning of pearl jam's career and touring? the very FIRST year of 'seniority' seating, and for ONE SHOW ONLY. 2003, first year that made the # of shows unlimited with your seniority for every show, utilizing the 'block system'....2004 VFC NO seniority, 10c/TM presale.....2005 canadian tour the FIRST year utilizing the EXACT system we have today.

ok, well it has been for as long as I can remember, and I joined in 98 I believe

but it doesn't matter, it's been this way for, as you say, at least 8 years now

and the people involved in this club do not seem like the type of people to offer something for all this time and then suddenly take it away - especially from their devoted fans who have been there and stuck by them from the early days

it wouldn't be right

Get_Right · February 2008

decides2dream wrote:

drop the *earned* language and i agree to some extent. $100 of membership dues, at most, does not *earn* anything...it is a privilege, but NOT earned, nor ever promised from the beginning. that is all. and to say others will 'get their chance'...simply isn't true. anyone with great seniority today is NOT going to drop it. and........

as to waiting 3 or 4 more tours...isn't that the point? pearl jam is not infinite, they like the rest of us mere mortal are finite, and how many tours will there be? just sayin'..........i hope for many, many, more though!

and that was me ...amongst many others i am sure. i've been singing that tune a fw years now whenever this subject comes up. i think that for MOST, that's all they really desire - at least the CHANCE, at any show, to possibly get close, experience that joy and rush.

i am thankful i've experienced the first row GA, 7x, first 5 rows seated, 3x, and 8th-17th probably 5x....all the rest, all over the map due to my mediocre # - the 'good' seats due to travel/sharing, and GA shows.

I only say earned because you had to take the time to mail in your check (in the earlier days-when there were fewer tour dates), and because I (we) have already sat in the medicocre 10C seats (comparatively speaking) for a number of tours-youve earned your senority after doing that IMHO.

Edit: if they do away with senority seating, then they might as well get rid of the numbers. Do they serve any other purpose

1STmammal2wearPants · February 2008

PureandEasy wrote:

ok, well it has been for as long as I can remember, and I joined in 98 I believe

but it doesn't matter, it's been this way for, as you say, at least 8 years now

and the people involved in this club do not seem like the type of people to offer something for all this time and then suddenly take it away - especially from their devoted fans who have been there and stuck by them from the early days

it wouldn't be right

but they SHOULD switch it up every once in a while, i think. Again, just because I'm 22 and was a young'un in the early days of the 10c, doesn't mean i wouldn't want near front row seats which i couldn't get otherwise, and doesn't mean i don't deserve em more than the next guy who gets the same seats 100 concerts in a row.

decides2dream · February 2008

PureandEasy wrote:

ok, well it has been for as long as I can remember, and I joined in 98 I believe

but it doesn't matter, it's been this way for, as you say, at least 8 years now

and the people involved in this club do not seem like the type of people to offer something for all this time and then suddenly take it away - especially from their devoted fans who have been there and stuck by them from the early days

it wouldn't be right

so yes, eight years now....and now, i am in the club 6 years.....so what's your point there really?

that someone in the club 2 or 4 or 6 or whatever years is more *deserving*....why? that's the whole crux of the discussion.

plenty of die-hard fans from the get-go who for one reason or another didn't, or couldn't join in the early years...whatever...i just think of pearl jam being more open, and not based on such rigidity.

and i agree, i don't think they are the sort of people to 'take things away'....nor do i think the club or band the type of people to exclude a very large contingent of their fanclub fanbase. bottomline, i think there is room to accommodate ALL. as i've said over and over...seniority was NEVEr promised, and even TODAY, it is CLEARLY stated that they reserve the right to NOT follow seniority if/whenever they see fit. i guess it's all perspective...

Get Right wrote:

I only say earned because you had to take the time to mail in your check (in the earlier days-when there were fewer tour dates)

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! cmon now, 'time to mail your check?!' hahahahahahahahaha.

seriously. sheesh. talk about grasping now! we all have nightmare stories......index cards, money orders, GA shows, etc, etc.....and even if all don't, bottomline...doesn't make ANYone more deserving of a better seat imo.

Get Right wrote:

and because I (we) have already sat in the medicocre 10C seats (comparatively speaking) for a number of tours-youve earned your senority after doing that IMHO

why did you sit in mediocre seats? THAT many people dropped out of the club that your seats have improved *THAT* vastly from 2000 to the present? really? and you did add the caveat of 'relatively speaking'...which to me speaks more truth. even your 'mediocre' probably far better than MANY 10clubbers have ever had the privilege to experience.

none the less......i politely agree to disagree, of course. i think i *earned* my spot on the rail sitting out for hours and hours on queues and rushing to the front to nab my spot....far more than mailing a check, moving up in seniority, etc. it just ain't *work*....! and given al i did, never managed to get front and center either. the only improvement i've seen in my seats is from travelling, not from being in the club now 7 years. as mentioned though, the *perk* of seniority has only existed 8 years....so whatever.

bottomline, i don't forsee seniority ever going completely away, and nor do i suggest it should. however, hell yes, i think 10c should open up more opportunities....and i really think for EVERY show, to some degree. but hey, it's just my opinion.....no influence...so take it for what it's worth. nutthin'.

and sure they could do away with numbers w/o seniority......who cares then? kinda like post counts imo....all useless.

i don't really understand the point of that question? IF seniority ceased to exist, yes, #s would be meaningless. would that be bad?

however, i don't think many, and certainly not me...is suggesting doing aay with seniority entirely........as i've said, just tweak it some that so at EVERY show, at least SOME people will have the opportunity to enjoy what senior members have exclusively for 8 years enjoyed......just give ALL a chance!

Westernsky · February 2008

my2hands wrote:

so why did people sign up in the 90's and stay on?

Because they were fans of the band who wanted to support the band, even without getting something more than a newsletter or record in return. Imagine that.
The 10c is has been giving back to the fans who were in it with them early for the sheer support factor, since even before being a member had any kind of ticket privileges (early access '95 or senority '00).

I think they are aware of the balance issue and have address it in offering GA shows, both small and large market and domestic and abroad.

And I have to ask - who are these people that I keep hearing about who sit up front at every show; who have so much time and money on their hands? I've never seen the same faces at the shows I've been lucky enough to get upfront for over the years. In my limited experience, it doesn't happen.

*2005 was the first tour with our current system, but the first shows with the new system were MSG 1&2 in 2003. This system was born out of the necessity of not having zealous PJ fans blocking the streets of NYC for a day or two.

Get_Right · February 2008

Fist off, I dont have a killer number, but it aint too shabby.
Actually yes-a big difference in my seats for 2006.
my seats up to 2003 were not great at all (maybe better than TM , but Ill never know). Only in 2006 did I start to get some really good seats and for some shows they were not that great.

Im not saying it took great effort to mail in the check, or that the amounts are significant.

But it needed to be done and it is one of the things that separates older members. Its more of a qualitative thing.

Its like damn I wish I bought that stock when it was issued, I had a chance, but didnt. The people that did reap the benefits, those that didnt, dont.

EDIT:
And the reason you are not seeing an improvement in your seats is becuase of the large numbers of people that joined in 2000-2003 JUST FOR TICKETS, I am ahead of that group but behind the guys that always get the first ten rows.

Get_Right · February 2008

Westernsky wrote:

Because they were fans of the band who wanted to support the band, even without getting something more than a newsletter or record in return. Imagine that..

THANK YOU

EXACTLY

wolfbear · February 2008

Westernsky wrote:

Because they were fans of the band who wanted to support the band, even without getting something more than a newsletter or record in return. Imagine that.
The 10c is has been giving back to the fans who were in it with them early for the sheer support factor, since even before being a member had any kind of ticket privileges (early access '95 or senority '00).

I think they are aware of the balance issue and have address it in offering GA shows, both small and large market and domestic and abroad.

And I have to ask - who are these people that I keep hearing about who sit up front at every show; who have so much time and money on their hands? I've never seen the same faces at the shows I've been lucky enough to get upfront for over the years. In my limited experience, it doesn't happen.

*2005 was the first tour with our current system, but the first shows with the new system were MSG 1&2 in 2003. This system was born out of the necessity of not having zealous PJ fans blocking the streets of NYC for a day or two.

Exactly. I joined in 1993, first and only fan club I ever joined. I did it because I wanted to support the band.
I too have been lucky to be up front at some concerts and I have never seen the same people twice. I think this happens far more often in GA than seated shows.

Ledbetterman10 · February 2008

are they really doing this or is this all just a rumor. or is it just for Ed's tour?

NotForMe · February 2008

Do you think that a season ticket holder for sports teams should sit behind newer season ticket holders for some or all games? I'll tell you what you think. No, they shouldn't. Being in the Ten Club for the longest amount of time means that you should get the best seat in the house for every show you attend. What's the point of doing this if it's random seating? Just take your chances w/ Ticketmaster.

decides2dream · February 2008

Westernsky wrote:

Because they were fans of the band who wanted to support the band, even without getting something more than a newsletter or record in return. Imagine that.
The 10c is has been giving back to the fans who were in it with them early for the sheer support factor, since even before being a member had any kind of ticket privileges (early access '95 or senority '00).

I think they are aware of the balance issue and have address it in offering GA shows, both small and large market and domestic and abroad.

And I have to ask - who are these people that I keep hearing about who sit up front at every show; who have so much time and money on their hands? I've never seen the same faces at the shows I've been lucky enough to get upfront for over the years. In my limited experience, it doesn't happen.

*2005 was the first tour with our current system, but the first shows with the new system were MSG 1&2 in 2003. This system was born out of the necessity of not having zealous PJ fans blocking the streets of NYC for a day or two.

i kinda think that was m2h's point. if you joined b/c you were a fan and wanted nothing more than to support the band and get a newsletter and single......what's changed now that some don't want to share the experience of being close at a show? and even back then, obviously.....no one was sending checks to pj to join their fanclub to get NOTHING. i cannot imagine anyone joining for nada in reutrn, you did get 'something'....your annual single and newsletter. no ones going to just send a check off to anyone for nothing in return. also, memberships were free? at first - i've read/rumored here, dunno about that.......and then what? 5 to 10 dollars, for how long? point is, along with 'perks' also came increased prices *that ALL members paid/pay w/o any 'extra benefit' with that change.. i think? when i joined in 2002 it was $15.....now it's 20 or 25? don't even remember. lots of people demonstrated their 'sheer support' b buying albums and attending shows, w/o being 10c members....and those who did have memberships got other benefits from day 1, a single and newsletter.......so i don't see why they *deserve* further reward in ALWAYS getting priority seating.

and in my travels, within the US, canada and europe...i have very often seen the same faces around me. i do think a lot more people travel around for shows, and especially for seniority based shows, i saw many of the same people with similar #s around me, makes sense. although i will say, it always seemed to me especially for 2 shows in the same city, they would flip-flop what side you sat on, so that could break people up more.

*and yes, very true....forgot about that. i was there and remember well. by far my very worse seats ever too. hahaha. however, as you say, done out of 'necessity'...so 2005 STILL is truly the beginnings of our current system.

Get Right wrote:

EDIT:
And the reason you are not seeing an improvement in your seats is becuase of the large numbers of people that joined in 2000-2003 JUST FOR TICKETS, I am ahead of that group but behind the guys that always get the first ten rows.

as already mentioned, we all joined to *get something*...yes, to support the band....but yes, original members to get the single and newsletter, be a part of it all. me, i wasn't even a fan back then...and not 'complaining'.....so not even an issue to me. yes, i DId join the fanclub mostly for access to tickets. and i remember it saying "for the opprtunity to buy tickets before the public"...not that it would ALWAYS be based on fanclub seniority. and sheesh....lots of people let #s lapse, got em back.....lots of #s assigned far earlier than when actually purchasing a membership etc, so the whole idea of pure 'support of the band'....that's not just it.

and none the less....if YOUR seats imporved so 'drastically' from 2003 to 2006.......that to me means a mass exodus of fanclubbers? b/c just b/c many joined around the same time as me.....still am the # i am, so if things will continue to improve the longer you are a member as you suggest, i think i should've seen change, no? whatever.

personally, i think nowadays we ALL may start to see some 'improvements' mostly b/c of the TM limits on fanclub tix. obviously, if the 10c can only have say at most 10% of the venue capacity, even been towards the middle/back of that will be far *better* seating for even crap/mediocre #s b/c better seating amongst say 2,000 fans as opposed to say the 10,000 10clubbers present at msg 2 2003. however, it's sad b/c it excludes just that many more 10clubbers from being able to benefit form the privilege of 10c seats, so no real improvement to me.

bottomline.....no "arguement"...i just don't see any *deserve* preferential treatment, and would like to see more love spread amongst ALL fans at pearl jam shows.

Random 10c seating is a GREAT idea

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