GA is exciting and gives everyone an opportunity. OK, GA means that if you want to get to the front, you need to queue. Or, if you know your way around, you can still get close to the front even without queuing that much! You can also move back if need be. Obviously, the moving around is if it is GA standing. GA seating also gives everyone the same opportunity, though seating is not that fun.
I understand there is a huge cultural difference between the US and Europe when it comes to GA and standing. I notice from a lot of threads that the Americans have their 'piss breaks' and go get beers, etc. during the shows. I understand that they would like to get back to their place after that, so I guess assigned seating is best for them!
Agreed, GA shows suck. I'm honestly surprised Pearl jam even does those anymore considering Roskilde and the tragedy that followed.
The who had something similar happen (I think it was CINCY), Even though the circumstances where different, the who never played a GA show after that.
I don't think pj will do GA for a full tour at every stop. San Fran in 2006 was an exception, but for most venues at least where I live, most venues don't have that big of a GA area, and even then you got to pay a ticket price to get up there.
If there was no seniority, what would be the incentive to keep membership current in non-touring years? Just playing Devil's Advocate here.
good point... but i dont think the seniority thing came into play until the 21st century? so why did people sign up in the 90's and stay on?
and if the concern is losing active members, i think doing the tx at random would bring in even more 10c members...
i think the grand rapids 2006 was not a mox up, i think they did it on purpose as an experiment and you saw a weird set list that night as well... ed commented in albany 06 about the same faces upfront EVERY night... and now ed is doing random tix?
seems like they are moving in that direction, for good reason IMO
THINK ABOUt THIS: does pearl Jam really want the first 10 rows all to be 40+ years old in a few years? hell no... they need new blood up in there, and they know it... having only club members from the early 90's up front every night is not allowing newer/younger fans the great experience of sitting close for an amazing show and may even drag down the overall concert energy and vibe... which pearl jam is known for, great shows
i think it would be the best move they ever made...
good point... but i dont think the seniority thing came into play until the 21st century? so why did people sign up in the 90's and stay on?
and if the concern is losing active members, i think doing the tx at random would bring in even more 10c members...
i think the grand rapids 2006 was not a mox up, i think they did it on purpose as an experiment and you saw a weird set list that night as well... ed commented in albany 06 about the same faces upfront EVERY night... and now ed is doing random tix?
seems like they are moving in that direction, for good reason IMO
THINK ABOUt THIS: does pearl Jam really want the first 10 rows all to be 40+ years old in a few years? hell no... they need new blood up in there, and they know it... having only club members from the early 90's up front every night is not allowing newer/younger fans the great experience of sitting close for an amazing show and may even drag down the overall concert energy and vibe... which pearl jam is known for, great shows
i think it would be the best move they ever made...
agreed on all points, well except the 40 year olds comment. i'm not far off. i don't think it has anything to do with age, and even energy, whatever...i just think it would be good for all to mix in 'new blood'...:D even GA shows, as the past 2 eurotours proves, does NOT eliminate the 'same faces' up front, not in the least. the ONLY reason i enjoyed GA WAs the chance to get up front, but even then....tis not all *fair*.........so i really do prefer having assigned space, but yea....mix it up! couple rows of random mixed with seniority seating, one seniority seating show per tour, all your other tix mixed, whatever....just spread the love around to all!
i don't think anyone is trying to change the system so completely to ALWAYS change it to new people ALWAYS getting the firt few rows, but rather, the idea of MANY different people getting the opportunity.....all get a chance at least to have that experience. it will never be possible for EVERY 10c member to get the first row, but give chance/randomness interspersed in there, at least it might be possible. i personally think that's good for ALL, and es, even if it NEVER happens for me....i still think, how cool.
So, I'm gathering from your argument, as well as the argument of those that support your position, that the long-time fan club members are the only long-time fans of Pearl Jam. I don't believe that's true in all cases, because I know that's not true for myself. I have only recently (well, two years ago) been financially able to devote a little bit of money yearly to 10 club, even though Pearl Jam has been my favorite band since Ten came out. I know it's only $20 a year, but when I was living paycheck to paycheck, it was $20 I didn't have. Things got considerably better for me, so I was finally able to join 10 club in '05. So I have a six digit fan club number that begins with a 3.
The mentality that 10 club membership numbers determine quality of fanhood is the same mentality that some fans have when they say that they're the most loyal fans because they've been to x number of shows. Once again, I've been a big fan for a long time, but my first show was East Rutherford 2 in '06. Total number of shows I've been to: 2. I'm not saying we should take away all the great seats from the people with the lowest numbers, but at least give me a chance...just once...to get in the first 15 rows. Then I will gladly return to the rear of the 10 club seats for each subsequent show.
I dont think that being a member longer means you are a bigger fan or anything like that. That is silly.
Its simple, to date, getting up front is an earned privilege. You will get your chance to be in the first fifteen rows, after three or four tours like the rest.
Somebody suggested randomizing a few rows for newer members. I like that idea, gives some a shot at being up front and doesnt affect senority seating. Win win.
I dont think that being a member longer means you are a bigger fan or anything like that. That is silly.
Its simple, to date, getting up front is an earned privilege. You will get your chance to be in the first fifteen rows, after three or four tours like the rest.
Somebody suggested randomizing a few rows for newer members. I like that idea, gives some a shot at being up front and doesnt affect senority seating. Win win.
bump to continue senority seating
drop the *earned* language and i agree to some extent. $100 of membership dues, at most, does not *earn* anything...it is a privilege, but NOT earned, nor ever promised from the beginning. that is all. and to say others will 'get their chance'...simply isn't true. anyone with great seniority today is NOT going to drop it. and........
as to waiting 3 or 4 more tours...isn't that the point? pearl jam is not infinite, they like the rest of us mere mortal are finite, and how many tours will there be? just sayin'..........i hope for many, many, more though!
and that was me ...amongst many others i am sure. i've been singing that tune a fw years now whenever this subject comes up. i think that for MOST, that's all they really desire - at least the CHANCE, at any show, to possibly get close, experience that joy and rush.
i am thankful i've experienced the first row GA, 7x, first 5 rows seated, 3x, and 8th-17th probably 5x....all the rest, all over the map due to my mediocre # - the 'good' seats due to travel/sharing, and GA shows.
I'd like a seat in the front rows some time. Been a Ten Club member for five years now. Doesn't make me any less of a fan than those who have had the same seats for over a decade now. Doesn't have to be a permanent thing, but I'd like for the 10c to share the wealth a bit.
2003 Mansfield III 2004 Boston I 2006 Boston I 2008 Bonnaroo, Hartford, Mansfield I 2010 Hartford 2013 Worcester I, Worcester II, Hartford 2016 Bonnaroo, Boston I, Boston II 2018 Boston I, Boston II 2021 Sea.Hear.Now 2022 Camden 2024 Boston I, Boston II
actually, um, no it's not....not by a long shot. unless you consider 2000 the beginning of pearl jam's career and touring? the very FIRST year of 'seniority' seating, and for ONE SHOW ONLY. 2003, first year that made the # of shows unlimited with your seniority for every show, utilizing the 'block system'....2004 VFC NO seniority, 10c/TM presale.....2005 canadian tour the FIRST year utilizing the EXACT system we have today.
ok, well it has been for as long as I can remember, and I joined in 98 I believe
but it doesn't matter, it's been this way for, as you say, at least 8 years now
and the people involved in this club do not seem like the type of people to offer something for all this time and then suddenly take it away - especially from their devoted fans who have been there and stuck by them from the early days
drop the *earned* language and i agree to some extent. $100 of membership dues, at most, does not *earn* anything...it is a privilege, but NOT earned, nor ever promised from the beginning. that is all. and to say others will 'get their chance'...simply isn't true. anyone with great seniority today is NOT going to drop it. and........
as to waiting 3 or 4 more tours...isn't that the point? pearl jam is not infinite, they like the rest of us mere mortal are finite, and how many tours will there be? just sayin'..........i hope for many, many, more though!
and that was me ...amongst many others i am sure. i've been singing that tune a fw years now whenever this subject comes up. i think that for MOST, that's all they really desire - at least the CHANCE, at any show, to possibly get close, experience that joy and rush.
i am thankful i've experienced the first row GA, 7x, first 5 rows seated, 3x, and 8th-17th probably 5x....all the rest, all over the map due to my mediocre # - the 'good' seats due to travel/sharing, and GA shows.
I only say earned because you had to take the time to mail in your check (in the earlier days-when there were fewer tour dates), and because I (we) have already sat in the medicocre 10C seats (comparatively speaking) for a number of tours-youve earned your senority after doing that IMHO.
Edit: if they do away with senority seating, then they might as well get rid of the numbers. Do they serve any other purpose
ok, well it has been for as long as I can remember, and I joined in 98 I believe
but it doesn't matter, it's been this way for, as you say, at least 8 years now
and the people involved in this club do not seem like the type of people to offer something for all this time and then suddenly take it away - especially from their devoted fans who have been there and stuck by them from the early days
it wouldn't be right
but they SHOULD switch it up every once in a while, i think. Again, just because I'm 22 and was a young'un in the early days of the 10c, doesn't mean i wouldn't want near front row seats which i couldn't get otherwise, and doesn't mean i don't deserve em more than the next guy who gets the same seats 100 concerts in a row.
2003 Mansfield III 2004 Boston I 2006 Boston I 2008 Bonnaroo, Hartford, Mansfield I 2010 Hartford 2013 Worcester I, Worcester II, Hartford 2016 Bonnaroo, Boston I, Boston II 2018 Boston I, Boston II 2021 Sea.Hear.Now 2022 Camden 2024 Boston I, Boston II
ok, well it has been for as long as I can remember, and I joined in 98 I believe
but it doesn't matter, it's been this way for, as you say, at least 8 years now
and the people involved in this club do not seem like the type of people to offer something for all this time and then suddenly take it away - especially from their devoted fans who have been there and stuck by them from the early days
it wouldn't be right
so yes, eight years now....and now, i am in the club 6 years.....so what's your point there really? that someone in the club 2 or 4 or 6 or whatever years is more *deserving*....why? that's the whole crux of the discussion.
plenty of die-hard fans from the get-go who for one reason or another didn't, or couldn't join in the early years...whatever...i just think of pearl jam being more open, and not based on such rigidity.
and i agree, i don't think they are the sort of people to 'take things away'....nor do i think the club or band the type of people to exclude a very large contingent of their fanclub fanbase. bottomline, i think there is room to accommodate ALL. as i've said over and over...seniority was NEVEr promised, and even TODAY, it is CLEARLY stated that they reserve the right to NOT follow seniority if/whenever they see fit. i guess it's all perspective...
I only say earned because you had to take the time to mail in your check (in the earlier days-when there were fewer tour dates)
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! cmon now, 'time to mail your check?!' hahahahahahahahaha. seriously. sheesh. talk about grasping now! we all have nightmare stories......index cards, money orders, GA shows, etc, etc.....and even if all don't, bottomline...doesn't make ANYone more deserving of a better seat imo.
and because I (we) have already sat in the medicocre 10C seats (comparatively speaking) for a number of tours-youve earned your senority after doing that IMHO
why did you sit in mediocre seats? THAT many people dropped out of the club that your seats have improved *THAT* vastly from 2000 to the present? really? and you did add the caveat of 'relatively speaking'...which to me speaks more truth. even your 'mediocre' probably far better than MANY 10clubbers have ever had the privilege to experience.
none the less......i politely agree to disagree, of course. i think i *earned* my spot on the rail sitting out for hours and hours on queues and rushing to the front to nab my spot....far more than mailing a check, moving up in seniority, etc. it just ain't *work*....! and given al i did, never managed to get front and center either. the only improvement i've seen in my seats is from travelling, not from being in the club now 7 years. as mentioned though, the *perk* of seniority has only existed 8 years....so whatever.
bottomline, i don't forsee seniority ever going completely away, and nor do i suggest it should. however, hell yes, i think 10c should open up more opportunities....and i really think for EVERY show, to some degree. but hey, it's just my opinion.....no influence...so take it for what it's worth. nutthin'.
and sure they could do away with numbers w/o seniority......who cares then? kinda like post counts imo....all useless.
i don't really understand the point of that question? IF seniority ceased to exist, yes, #s would be meaningless. would that be bad? however, i don't think many, and certainly not me...is suggesting doing aay with seniority entirely........as i've said, just tweak it some that so at EVERY show, at least SOME people will have the opportunity to enjoy what senior members have exclusively for 8 years enjoyed......just give ALL a chance!
so why did people sign up in the 90's and stay on?
Because they were fans of the band who wanted to support the band, even without getting something more than a newsletter or record in return. Imagine that.
The 10c is has been giving back to the fans who were in it with them early for the sheer support factor, since even before being a member had any kind of ticket privileges (early access '95 or senority '00).
I think they are aware of the balance issue and have address it in offering GA shows, both small and large market and domestic and abroad.
And I have to ask - who are these people that I keep hearing about who sit up front at every show; who have so much time and money on their hands? I've never seen the same faces at the shows I've been lucky enough to get upfront for over the years. In my limited experience, it doesn't happen.
*2005 was the first tour with our current system, but the first shows with the new system were MSG 1&2 in 2003. This system was born out of the necessity of not having zealous PJ fans blocking the streets of NYC for a day or two.
Fist off, I dont have a killer number, but it aint too shabby.
Actually yes-a big difference in my seats for 2006.
my seats up to 2003 were not great at all (maybe better than TM , but Ill never know). Only in 2006 did I start to get some really good seats and for some shows they were not that great.
Im not saying it took great effort to mail in the check, or that the amounts are significant.
But it needed to be done and it is one of the things that separates older members. Its more of a qualitative thing.
Its like damn I wish I bought that stock when it was issued, I had a chance, but didnt. The people that did reap the benefits, those that didnt, dont.
EDIT:
And the reason you are not seeing an improvement in your seats is becuase of the large numbers of people that joined in 2000-2003 JUST FOR TICKETS, I am ahead of that group but behind the guys that always get the first ten rows.
Because they were fans of the band who wanted to support the band, even without getting something more than a newsletter or record in return. Imagine that..
Because they were fans of the band who wanted to support the band, even without getting something more than a newsletter or record in return. Imagine that.
The 10c is has been giving back to the fans who were in it with them early for the sheer support factor, since even before being a member had any kind of ticket privileges (early access '95 or senority '00).
I think they are aware of the balance issue and have address it in offering GA shows, both small and large market and domestic and abroad.
And I have to ask - who are these people that I keep hearing about who sit up front at every show; who have so much time and money on their hands? I've never seen the same faces at the shows I've been lucky enough to get upfront for over the years. In my limited experience, it doesn't happen.
*2005 was the first tour with our current system, but the first shows with the new system were MSG 1&2 in 2003. This system was born out of the necessity of not having zealous PJ fans blocking the streets of NYC for a day or two.
Exactly. I joined in 1993, first and only fan club I ever joined. I did it because I wanted to support the band.
I too have been lucky to be up front at some concerts and I have never seen the same people twice. I think this happens far more often in GA than seated shows.
"I'd rather be with an animal." "Those that can be trusted can change their mind." "The in between is mine." "If I don't lose control, explore and not explode, a preternatural other plane with the power to maintain." "Yeh this is living." "Life is what you make it."
Do you think that a season ticket holder for sports teams should sit behind newer season ticket holders for some or all games? I'll tell you what you think. No, they shouldn't. Being in the Ten Club for the longest amount of time means that you should get the best seat in the house for every show you attend. What's the point of doing this if it's random seating? Just take your chances w/ Ticketmaster.
Because they were fans of the band who wanted to support the band, even without getting something more than a newsletter or record in return. Imagine that.
The 10c is has been giving back to the fans who were in it with them early for the sheer support factor, since even before being a member had any kind of ticket privileges (early access '95 or senority '00).
I think they are aware of the balance issue and have address it in offering GA shows, both small and large market and domestic and abroad.
And I have to ask - who are these people that I keep hearing about who sit up front at every show; who have so much time and money on their hands? I've never seen the same faces at the shows I've been lucky enough to get upfront for over the years. In my limited experience, it doesn't happen.
*2005 was the first tour with our current system, but the first shows with the new system were MSG 1&2 in 2003. This system was born out of the necessity of not having zealous PJ fans blocking the streets of NYC for a day or two.
i kinda think that was m2h's point. if you joined b/c you were a fan and wanted nothing more than to support the band and get a newsletter and single......what's changed now that some don't want to share the experience of being close at a show? and even back then, obviously.....no one was sending checks to pj to join their fanclub to get NOTHING. i cannot imagine anyone joining for nada in reutrn, you did get 'something'....your annual single and newsletter. no ones going to just send a check off to anyone for nothing in return. also, memberships were free? at first - i've read/rumored here, dunno about that.......and then what? 5 to 10 dollars, for how long? point is, along with 'perks' also came increased prices *that ALL members paid/pay w/o any 'extra benefit' with that change.. i think? when i joined in 2002 it was $15.....now it's 20 or 25? don't even remember. lots of people demonstrated their 'sheer support' b buying albums and attending shows, w/o being 10c members....and those who did have memberships got other benefits from day 1, a single and newsletter.......so i don't see why they *deserve* further reward in ALWAYS getting priority seating.
and in my travels, within the US, canada and europe...i have very often seen the same faces around me. i do think a lot more people travel around for shows, and especially for seniority based shows, i saw many of the same people with similar #s around me, makes sense. although i will say, it always seemed to me especially for 2 shows in the same city, they would flip-flop what side you sat on, so that could break people up more.
*and yes, very true....forgot about that. i was there and remember well. by far my very worse seats ever too. hahaha. however, as you say, done out of 'necessity'...so 2005 STILL is truly the beginnings of our current system.
EDIT:
And the reason you are not seeing an improvement in your seats is becuase of the large numbers of people that joined in 2000-2003 JUST FOR TICKETS, I am ahead of that group but behind the guys that always get the first ten rows.
as already mentioned, we all joined to *get something*...yes, to support the band....but yes, original members to get the single and newsletter, be a part of it all. me, i wasn't even a fan back then...and not 'complaining'.....so not even an issue to me. yes, i DId join the fanclub mostly for access to tickets. and i remember it saying "for the opprtunity to buy tickets before the public"...not that it would ALWAYS be based on fanclub seniority. and sheesh....lots of people let #s lapse, got em back.....lots of #s assigned far earlier than when actually purchasing a membership etc, so the whole idea of pure 'support of the band'....that's not just it.
and none the less....if YOUR seats imporved so 'drastically' from 2003 to 2006.......that to me means a mass exodus of fanclubbers? b/c just b/c many joined around the same time as me.....still am the # i am, so if things will continue to improve the longer you are a member as you suggest, i think i should've seen change, no? whatever.
personally, i think nowadays we ALL may start to see some 'improvements' mostly b/c of the TM limits on fanclub tix. obviously, if the 10c can only have say at most 10% of the venue capacity, even been towards the middle/back of that will be far *better* seating for even crap/mediocre #s b/c better seating amongst say 2,000 fans as opposed to say the 10,000 10clubbers present at msg 2 2003. however, it's sad b/c it excludes just that many more 10clubbers from being able to benefit form the privilege of 10c seats, so no real improvement to me.
bottomline.....no "arguement"...i just don't see any *deserve* preferential treatment, and would like to see more love spread amongst ALL fans at pearl jam shows.
Do you think that a season ticket holder for sports teams should sit behind newer season ticket holders for some or all games? I'll tell you what you think. No, they shouldn't. Being in the Ten Club for the longest amount of time means that you should get the best seat in the house for every show you attend. What's the point of doing this if it's random seating? Just take your chances w/ Ticketmaster.
as to this argument, which i have seen often...one word: COST.
i am not a sports fan, but i DO know that season ticket prices are prohibitvely expensive. 10C memberships were NEVEr uber expensive...and bottomline, if you joined pre-2000...you were NEVER PROMISED SENIORITY SEATING! so you did NOT join for that perk...as season ticket members DO, b/c they KNOW ahead of time! no early 10c 'knew' they'd get priority seating ever......and certainly not forever....and sorry, what amounts to at most $100....to me doesn't *buy* that right.
the point of being in the fanclub, as many long-timers have pointed out...is "love of the band" i thought. and, annual single and 2 newsletters/now deep issues. right? the real *point* to 10c tix, to me, was GETTING tix before the public, as in better chance at access.....and yes, our seats within the 10c allotment would always be better than outside of the 10c allotment. why does anyone join the fanclub TODAY...or in europe, etc.........for ALL those reasons, seniority not being a 'one and only'.......
and...........i think i, finally ...had my fill discussing this topic, at least for now. in a couple months, next year, whenever..i am sure to join the discussion again.
those going to see ed....ENJOY! and hopefully we ALL will be getting some of those rumored summer pearl jam shows, i'll BE there wherever/whenever i can and enjoying every minute!
nothing wil make everyone happy and there is no simple answer thats for sure
I dont know why my seats were much better for 2006-I dont think there was a mass exodus-perhaps it was the removal of the block seating-I think that was in place for 2003 no?
nothing wil make everyone happy and there is no simple answer thats for sure
I dont know why my seats were much better for 2006-I dont think there was a mass exodus-perhaps it was the removal of the block seating-I think that was in place for 2003 no?
yes.
and yes, that may be. i DID try and utilize the block system to my advantage, and perhaps that's why i saw no improvement from 2003 to 2006, same difference for me. my first show at uniondale and also the holmdel show - which i got killer 11th row seats b/c of the msgII/holmdel ticket trade since initially NO 10c tix for holmdel - i definitely got there EARLY. msg, obviously as mentioned, no block seating...so didn't matter, besides with sooooooooo many 10clubbers in attendance obvious to have the shittiest seats ever. GREAT shows though!
Have every other pair of tickets randomised (or every other row for that matter) - that way seniority still counts and everyone else gets a shot at decent tickets too.
I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to organise.
Being in Europe you have to commit to being on the barrier by queueing for hours on end (I love GA! ) and everyone has the chance to do that. If my memory serves me right (apologies if it doesn't!) the girl who was at the front of the queue in Dusseldorf had been there for God knows how many hours and she didn't even have a ticket (ended up getting a spare from a fellow 10c member), in my opinion, that girl deserved front row! Hell I've been on the barrier a couple of times over here and the idea of spending a lot of money to travel and see some US shows with the pretty poor seats I'd get isn't that appealing (you're right - I've probably been spoilt with the GA shows over here) - but if they mixed it up a little....
Regardless though, once I'm made redundant I'll probably blow my money going to see them anywhere anyway
and yes, that may be. i DID try and utilize the block system to my advantage, and perhaps that's why i saw no improvement from 2003 to 2006, same difference for me. my first show at uniondale and also the holmdel show - which i got killer 11th row seats b/c of the msgII/holmdel ticket trade since initially NO 10c tix for holmdel - i definitely got there EARLY. msg, obviously as mentioned, no block seating...so didn't matter, besides with sooooooooo many 10clubbers in attendance obvious to have the shittiest seats ever. GREAT shows though!
I am still kicking myself for not going to holmdel
I never get to the shows early, that probably explains it.
They are all good shows!
i am suprised there arent more "senior" people willing to give up a little, so have others get a shot at the excitement of being close...
i have given up my 10c tickets to friends in the past just so they could sit together or have a good seat for once... i have even sat alone to accomodate my friends and give them the opportunity to sit closer with my 10c tickets... they were always super grateful and a few even joined because of the seats and being closer then ever before... i still loved the shows... and i loved having my friends freaking out after the show thanking me for the good seats... thats what it is all about for me... everyone sharing in that great experince of PJ live in concert...
as you were taught growing up... learn to share folks... stop having such a sense of entitelment... let someone else experience the reason you got hooked in the first place
i always thought this was more of a friendly sharing community... maybe not?
i am suprised there arent more "senior" people willing to give up a little, so have others get a shot at the excitement of being close...
i have given up my 10c tickets to friends in the past just so they could sit together or have a good seat for once... i have even sat alone to accomodate my friends and give them the opportunity to sit closer with my 10c tickets... they were always super grateful and a few even joined because of the seats and being closer then ever before... i still loved the shows... and i loved having my friends freaking out after the show thanking me for the good seats... thats what it is all about for me... everyone sharing in that great experince of PJ live in concert...
as you were taught growing up... learn to share folks... stop having such a sense of entitelment... let someone else experience the reason you got hooked in the first place
i always thought this was more of a friendly sharing community... maybe not?
you need to go into sales or lobbying because you are relentless
I share my tickets with non members and have gave them away (GASP) at the MSG I 03 show.
I never felt a sense of entitlement until you guys started lobbying for random seating.
I never felt a sense of entitlement until you guys started lobbying for random seating.
Perfectly said.
Frankly, I'm fine if the boys decide to have the random open show (i.e. SF 06). But certainly my preference is to reward those of us that have been fans for such a long time with seniority seating...
its not a great idea at all. i dont have a great number, but with that said, i have not stuck it out all these years waiting for people to drop out just so now it can be random just because some whiny bitches want to be closer and didnt join 8 or 10 years ago.
last tour i was in the 20th row on the floor , so its not that im getting great seats. but ive paid my dues, and have plenty of years where i was in worse seats, now that is starting to come around for us people that didnt get in right away, but got in b4 others, would not be fair at all.
my 2 cents.
Peace, Love.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
Great idea for people with a crappy 10C membership #. But I would feel slighted if I have been a paid member since the mid-90s.
Yep I feel the same way, I've never been able to make the most out of my 32### number, due to circumstances NY & Boston 03 there were 3 of us and the Wembley shows are always GA. Hopefully next time I can, so if this is taken away I'd be bitterley disappointed. At the same time I'm up for allowing a small percentage to be randomised, if they did it by section. Say allow 10%random #'s into the first 1,000 section etc. That would give ppl with lower #'s a chance and mix it up.
My PJ shows:
London 28/10/96, Las Vegas 11/7/98, London 29/5/00, Nurnburg 11/6/00, Prague 14/6/00, Salzburg 18/6/00, Verona 20/6/00, Milan 22/6/00, Zurich 23/6/00, New York 8-9/7/03, Boston 11/7/03, Reading Festival 27/8/06, Shepards Bush 11/8/09, Berlin 15/8/09, Manchester 17/8/09, London 18/8/09, Dublin 22/6/10, Belfast 23/6/10, London (HRC) 25/6/10, Alpine Valley (PJ20) 3-4/9/11, Manchester 20-21/6/12, Leeds 8/7/14, Milton Keynes 11/7/14 To be continued....
Comments
I'm all for GA as well.
The who had something similar happen (I think it was CINCY), Even though the circumstances where different, the who never played a GA show after that.
I don't think pj will do GA for a full tour at every stop. San Fran in 2006 was an exception, but for most venues at least where I live, most venues don't have that big of a GA area, and even then you got to pay a ticket price to get up there.
EV Solo: 7/11/11 11/12/12 11/13/12
exactly
good point... but i dont think the seniority thing came into play until the 21st century? so why did people sign up in the 90's and stay on?
and if the concern is losing active members, i think doing the tx at random would bring in even more 10c members...
i think the grand rapids 2006 was not a mox up, i think they did it on purpose as an experiment and you saw a weird set list that night as well... ed commented in albany 06 about the same faces upfront EVERY night... and now ed is doing random tix?
seems like they are moving in that direction, for good reason IMO
THINK ABOUt THIS: does pearl Jam really want the first 10 rows all to be 40+ years old in a few years? hell no... they need new blood up in there, and they know it... having only club members from the early 90's up front every night is not allowing newer/younger fans the great experience of sitting close for an amazing show and may even drag down the overall concert energy and vibe... which pearl jam is known for, great shows
i think it would be the best move they ever made...
agreed on all points, well except the 40 year olds comment.
i don't think anyone is trying to change the system so completely to ALWAYS change it to new people ALWAYS getting the firt few rows, but rather, the idea of MANY different people getting the opportunity.....all get a chance at least to have that experience. it will never be possible for EVERY 10c member to get the first row, but give chance/randomness interspersed in there, at least it might be possible. i personally think that's good for ALL, and es, even if it NEVER happens for me....i still think, how cool.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I dont think that being a member longer means you are a bigger fan or anything like that. That is silly.
Its simple, to date, getting up front is an earned privilege. You will get your chance to be in the first fifteen rows, after three or four tours like the rest.
Somebody suggested randomizing a few rows for newer members. I like that idea, gives some a shot at being up front and doesnt affect senority seating. Win win.
bump to continue senority seating
drop the *earned* language and i agree to some extent. $100 of membership dues, at most, does not *earn* anything...it is a privilege, but NOT earned, nor ever promised from the beginning. that is all. and to say others will 'get their chance'...simply isn't true. anyone with great seniority today is NOT going to drop it. and........
as to waiting 3 or 4 more tours...isn't that the point? pearl jam is not infinite, they like the rest of us mere mortal are finite, and how many tours will there be? just sayin'..........i hope for many, many, more though!
and that was me
i am thankful i've experienced the first row GA, 7x, first 5 rows seated, 3x, and 8th-17th probably 5x....all the rest, all over the map due to my mediocre # - the 'good' seats due to travel/sharing, and GA shows.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
2004 Boston I
2006 Boston I
2008 Bonnaroo, Hartford, Mansfield I
2010 Hartford
2013 Worcester I, Worcester II, Hartford
2016 Bonnaroo, Boston I, Boston II
2018 Boston I, Boston II
2021 Sea.Hear.Now
2022 Camden
2024 Boston I, Boston II
ok, well it has been for as long as I can remember, and I joined in 98 I believe
but it doesn't matter, it's been this way for, as you say, at least 8 years now
and the people involved in this club do not seem like the type of people to offer something for all this time and then suddenly take it away - especially from their devoted fans who have been there and stuck by them from the early days
it wouldn't be right
I only say earned because you had to take the time to mail in your check (in the earlier days-when there were fewer tour dates), and because I (we) have already sat in the medicocre 10C seats (comparatively speaking) for a number of tours-youve earned your senority after doing that IMHO.
Edit: if they do away with senority seating, then they might as well get rid of the numbers. Do they serve any other purpose
but they SHOULD switch it up every once in a while, i think. Again, just because I'm 22 and was a young'un in the early days of the 10c, doesn't mean i wouldn't want near front row seats which i couldn't get otherwise, and doesn't mean i don't deserve em more than the next guy who gets the same seats 100 concerts in a row.
2004 Boston I
2006 Boston I
2008 Bonnaroo, Hartford, Mansfield I
2010 Hartford
2013 Worcester I, Worcester II, Hartford
2016 Bonnaroo, Boston I, Boston II
2018 Boston I, Boston II
2021 Sea.Hear.Now
2022 Camden
2024 Boston I, Boston II
so yes, eight years now....and now, i am in the club 6 years.....so what's your point there really?
plenty of die-hard fans from the get-go who for one reason or another didn't, or couldn't join in the early years...whatever...i just think of pearl jam being more open, and not based on such rigidity.
and i agree, i don't think they are the sort of people to 'take things away'....nor do i think the club or band the type of people to exclude a very large contingent of their fanclub fanbase. bottomline, i think there is room to accommodate ALL. as i've said over and over...seniority was NEVEr promised, and even TODAY, it is CLEARLY stated that they reserve the right to NOT follow seniority if/whenever they see fit. i guess it's all perspective...
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! cmon now, 'time to mail your check?!' hahahahahahahahaha.
why did you sit in mediocre seats? THAT many people dropped out of the club that your seats have improved *THAT* vastly from 2000 to the present? really? and you did add the caveat of 'relatively speaking'...which to me speaks more truth. even your 'mediocre' probably far better than MANY 10clubbers have ever had the privilege to experience.
none the less......i politely agree to disagree, of course. i think i *earned* my spot on the rail sitting out for hours and hours on queues and rushing to the front to nab my spot....far more than mailing a check, moving up in seniority, etc. it just ain't *work*....! and given al i did, never managed to get front and center either. the only improvement i've seen in my seats is from travelling, not from being in the club now 7 years. as mentioned though, the *perk* of seniority has only existed 8 years....so whatever.
bottomline, i don't forsee seniority ever going completely away, and nor do i suggest it should. however, hell yes, i think 10c should open up more opportunities....and i really think for EVERY show, to some degree. but hey, it's just my opinion.....no influence...so take it for what it's worth. nutthin'.
and sure they could do away with numbers w/o seniority......who cares then? kinda like post counts imo....all useless.
i don't really understand the point of that question? IF seniority ceased to exist, yes, #s would be meaningless. would that be bad?
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Because they were fans of the band who wanted to support the band, even without getting something more than a newsletter or record in return. Imagine that.
The 10c is has been giving back to the fans who were in it with them early for the sheer support factor, since even before being a member had any kind of ticket privileges (early access '95 or senority '00).
I think they are aware of the balance issue and have address it in offering GA shows, both small and large market and domestic and abroad.
And I have to ask - who are these people that I keep hearing about who sit up front at every show; who have so much time and money on their hands? I've never seen the same faces at the shows I've been lucky enough to get upfront for over the years. In my limited experience, it doesn't happen.
*2005 was the first tour with our current system, but the first shows with the new system were MSG 1&2 in 2003. This system was born out of the necessity of not having zealous PJ fans blocking the streets of NYC for a day or two.
Actually yes-a big difference in my seats for 2006.
my seats up to 2003 were not great at all (maybe better than TM , but Ill never know). Only in 2006 did I start to get some really good seats and for some shows they were not that great.
Im not saying it took great effort to mail in the check, or that the amounts are significant.
But it needed to be done and it is one of the things that separates older members. Its more of a qualitative thing.
Its like damn I wish I bought that stock when it was issued, I had a chance, but didnt. The people that did reap the benefits, those that didnt, dont.
EDIT:
And the reason you are not seeing an improvement in your seats is becuase of the large numbers of people that joined in 2000-2003 JUST FOR TICKETS, I am ahead of that group but behind the guys that always get the first ten rows.
THANK YOU
EXACTLY
I too have been lucky to be up front at some concerts and I have never seen the same people twice. I think this happens far more often in GA than seated shows.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
i kinda think that was m2h's point. if you joined b/c you were a fan and wanted nothing more than to support the band and get a newsletter and single......what's changed now that some don't want to share the experience of being close at a show? and even back then, obviously.....no one was sending checks to pj to join their fanclub to get NOTHING. i cannot imagine anyone joining for nada in reutrn, you did get 'something'....your annual single and newsletter. no ones going to just send a check off to anyone for nothing in return. also, memberships were free? at first - i've read/rumored here, dunno about that.......and then what? 5 to 10 dollars, for how long? point is, along with 'perks' also came increased prices *that ALL members paid/pay w/o any 'extra benefit' with that change.. i think? when i joined in 2002 it was $15.....now it's 20 or 25? don't even remember. lots of people demonstrated their 'sheer support' b buying albums and attending shows, w/o being 10c members....and those who did have memberships got other benefits from day 1, a single and newsletter.......so i don't see why they *deserve* further reward in ALWAYS getting priority seating.
and in my travels, within the US, canada and europe...i have very often seen the same faces around me. i do think a lot more people travel around for shows, and especially for seniority based shows, i saw many of the same people with similar #s around me, makes sense. although i will say, it always seemed to me especially for 2 shows in the same city, they would flip-flop what side you sat on, so that could break people up more.
*and yes, very true....forgot about that. i was there and remember well. by far my very worse seats ever too. hahaha. however, as you say, done out of 'necessity'...so 2005 STILL is truly the beginnings of our current system.
as already mentioned, we all joined to *get something*...yes, to support the band....but yes, original members to get the single and newsletter, be a part of it all. me, i wasn't even a fan back then...and not 'complaining'.....so not even an issue to me. yes, i DId join the fanclub mostly for access to tickets. and i remember it saying "for the opprtunity to buy tickets before the public"...not that it would ALWAYS be based on fanclub seniority. and sheesh....lots of people let #s lapse, got em back.....lots of #s assigned far earlier than when actually purchasing a membership etc, so the whole idea of pure 'support of the band'....that's not just it.
and none the less....if YOUR seats imporved so 'drastically' from 2003 to 2006.......that to me means a mass exodus of fanclubbers? b/c just b/c many joined around the same time as me.....still am the # i am, so if things will continue to improve the longer you are a member as you suggest, i think i should've seen change, no? whatever.
personally, i think nowadays we ALL may start to see some 'improvements' mostly b/c of the TM limits on fanclub tix. obviously, if the 10c can only have say at most 10% of the venue capacity, even been towards the middle/back of that will be far *better* seating for even crap/mediocre #s b/c better seating amongst say 2,000 fans as opposed to say the 10,000 10clubbers present at msg 2 2003. however, it's sad b/c it excludes just that many more 10clubbers from being able to benefit form the privilege of 10c seats, so no real improvement to me.
bottomline.....no "arguement"...i just don't see any *deserve* preferential treatment, and would like to see more love spread amongst ALL fans at pearl jam shows.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
as to this argument, which i have seen often...one word: COST.
i am not a sports fan, but i DO know that season ticket prices are prohibitvely expensive. 10C memberships were NEVEr uber expensive...and bottomline, if you joined pre-2000...you were NEVER PROMISED SENIORITY SEATING! so you did NOT join for that perk...as season ticket members DO, b/c they KNOW ahead of time! no early 10c 'knew' they'd get priority seating ever......and certainly not forever....and sorry, what amounts to at most $100....to me doesn't *buy* that right.
the point of being in the fanclub, as many long-timers have pointed out...is "love of the band" i thought. and, annual single and 2 newsletters/now deep issues. right? the real *point* to 10c tix, to me, was GETTING tix before the public, as in better chance at access.....and yes, our seats within the 10c allotment would always be better than outside of the 10c allotment. why does anyone join the fanclub TODAY...or in europe, etc.........for ALL those reasons, seniority not being a 'one and only'.......
and...........i think i, finally
those going to see ed....ENJOY! and hopefully we ALL will be getting some of those rumored summer pearl jam shows, i'll BE there wherever/whenever i can and enjoying every minute!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I dont know why my seats were much better for 2006-I dont think there was a mass exodus-perhaps it was the removal of the block seating-I think that was in place for 2003 no?
yes.
and yes, that may be. i DID try and utilize the block system to my advantage, and perhaps that's why i saw no improvement from 2003 to 2006, same difference for me. my first show at uniondale and also the holmdel show - which i got killer 11th row seats b/c of the msgII/holmdel ticket trade since initially NO 10c tix for holmdel - i definitely got there EARLY. msg, obviously as mentioned, no block seating...so didn't matter, besides with sooooooooo many 10clubbers in attendance obvious to have the shittiest seats ever. GREAT shows though!
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Have every other pair of tickets randomised (or every other row for that matter) - that way seniority still counts and everyone else gets a shot at decent tickets too.
I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to organise.
Being in Europe you have to commit to being on the barrier by queueing for hours on end (I love GA!
Regardless though, once I'm made redundant I'll probably blow my money going to see them anywhere anyway
http://www.strummersphotography.com
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I am still kicking myself for not going to holmdel
I never get to the shows early, that probably explains it.
They are all good shows!
i have given up my 10c tickets to friends in the past just so they could sit together or have a good seat for once... i have even sat alone to accomodate my friends and give them the opportunity to sit closer with my 10c tickets... they were always super grateful and a few even joined because of the seats and being closer then ever before... i still loved the shows... and i loved having my friends freaking out after the show thanking me for the good seats... thats what it is all about for me... everyone sharing in that great experince of PJ live in concert...
as you were taught growing up... learn to share folks... stop having such a sense of entitelment... let someone else experience the reason you got hooked in the first place
i always thought this was more of a friendly sharing community... maybe not?
you need to go into sales or lobbying because you are relentless
I share my tickets with non members and have gave them away (GASP) at the MSG I 03 show.
I never felt a sense of entitlement until you guys started lobbying for random seating.
Perfectly said.
Frankly, I'm fine if the boys decide to have the random open show (i.e. SF 06). But certainly my preference is to reward those of us that have been fans for such a long time with seniority seating...
last tour i was in the 20th row on the floor , so its not that im getting great seats. but ive paid my dues, and have plenty of years where i was in worse seats, now that is starting to come around for us people that didnt get in right away, but got in b4 others, would not be fair at all.
my 2 cents.
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
Yep I feel the same way, I've never been able to make the most out of my 32### number, due to circumstances NY & Boston 03 there were 3 of us and the Wembley shows are always GA. Hopefully next time I can, so if this is taken away I'd be bitterley disappointed. At the same time I'm up for allowing a small percentage to be randomised, if they did it by section. Say allow 10%random #'s into the first 1,000 section etc. That would give ppl with lower #'s a chance and mix it up.
London 28/10/96, Las Vegas 11/7/98, London 29/5/00, Nurnburg 11/6/00, Prague 14/6/00, Salzburg 18/6/00, Verona 20/6/00, Milan 22/6/00, Zurich 23/6/00, New York 8-9/7/03, Boston 11/7/03, Reading Festival 27/8/06, Shepards Bush 11/8/09, Berlin 15/8/09, Manchester 17/8/09, London 18/8/09, Dublin 22/6/10, Belfast 23/6/10, London (HRC) 25/6/10, Alpine Valley (PJ20) 3-4/9/11, Manchester 20-21/6/12, Leeds 8/7/14, Milton Keynes 11/7/14 To be continued....