Going to the US?

Heineken Helen · July 2008

dunkman wrote:

well all i'm saying is that the procedures they put in place will be 'used' more on specific target groups... and history kinda shows that past terrorists incidents have, in the vast majority, been carried out by Middle Eastern men who follow Islam.

Nah, I remember not so long ago when all the bad people had Irish accents... and all Irish people were therefore guilty before proven innocent. But hey, that's history, and who are we to learn from history?

it's just been proven time and time again that such measures do NOT deter. It's alright I suppose if the bad people are those we can't relate to... specifically if it's not us. But if all the bad people are middle eastern muslims, why they hell do they want MY information?

dunkman wrote:

it's a situation thats been created for the US.. not by them.

That depends on whether you believe in conspiracy theories or not

dunkman · July 2008

Collin wrote:

So where do you draw the line, dunk?

depends.. if a guy from Nigeria who has a string of sexual convictions is not allowed into the UK then.. well thats tough shit... quite right. if he has a drunk driving conviction then its fine for him to enter surely? although as a result of that conviction it might be useful for the government/police to know this if the guy then hires a car and is caught drink driving then they'll know he has a history of this, etc... information is useful if used correctly...

this information is only shared, used, passed around other governments if the person is suspected of criminal activities, a threat to security, etc....

dunkman · July 2008

Heineken Helen wrote:

Nah, I remember not so long ago when all the bad people had Irish accents... and all Irish people were therefore guilty before proven innocent. But hey, that's history, and who are we to learn from history? it's just been proven time and time again that such measures do NOT deter. It's alright I suppose if the bad people are those we can't relate to... specifically if it's not us. But if all the bad people are middle eastern muslims, why they hell do they want MY information?

they want your information so they can be all-inclusive and very very PC about the whole process... if they just targted a certain group they would appear to be very non-diplomatic about it... but in reality they will be targeting those groups for spot checks and stuff... (see!!! now you've got me into conspiracy crap

)

they want to know who is in their country and what they ar doing... if i had a party in my house and there were 2 people i didnt know i'd want to know who they were as well...

Collin · July 2008

dunkman wrote:

depends.. if a guy from Nigeria who has a string of sexual convictions is not allowed into the UK then.. well thats tough shit... quite right. if he has a drunk driving conviction then its fine for him to enter surely? although as a result of that conviction it might be useful for the government/police to know this if the guy then hires a car and is caught drink driving then they'll know he has a history of this, etc... information is useful if used correctly...

this information is only shared, used, passed around other governments if the person is suspected of criminal activities, a threat to security, etc....

So would you be ok with it if your government decided to implant its citizens with a chip? Something which has all your information, everything they could possible need.

Heineken Helen · July 2008

dunkman wrote:

depends.. if a guy from Nigeria who has a string of sexual convictions is not allowed into the UK then.. well thats tough shit... quite right. if he has a drunk driving conviction then its fine for him to enter surely? although as a result of that conviction it might be useful for the government/police to know this if the guy then hires a car and is caught drink driving then they'll know he has a history of this, etc... information is useful if used correctly...

this information is only shared, used, passed around other governments if the person is suspected of criminal activities, a threat to security, etc....

Dunk... if somebody already has any conviction they won't be allowed in anyway... the only people allowed in are those with NO criminal records... so I don't see how that's relevant?

Heineken Helen · July 2008

dunkman wrote:

they want your information so they can be all-inclusive and very very PC about the whole process... if they just targted a certain group they would appear to be very non-diplomatic about it... but in reality they will be targeting those groups for spot checks and stuff... (see!!! now you've got me into conspiracy crap )

they want to know who is in their country and what they ar doing... if i had a party in my house and there were 2 people i didnt know i'd want to know who they were as well...

would you do a background check on those people first?

or would you trust the people who brought them there... those who are already your guests? Except... they're not your guests, they are also residents of your house.

Racial profiling is hardly conspiracy theorist stuff dunk!

dunkman · July 2008

Heineken Helen wrote:

Dunk... if somebody already has any conviction they won't be allowed in anyway... the only people allowed in are those with NO criminal records... so I don't see how that's relevant?

this simply aint true

mrs dunks cousin from Virginia has a DUI conviction... got in here no problems.

different levels of criminal convictions are used Hells

Heineken Helen · July 2008

dunkman wrote:

this simply aint true

mrs dunks cousin from Virginia has a DUI conviction... got in here no problems.

different levels of criminal convictions are used Hells

I'm not talking about British immigration!

was mrs dunks cousin honest about the conviction on the visa form? I'm surprised at that... I know people refused entry to the US for less.

Sludge Factory · July 2008

dunkman wrote:

for the 3rd time... what do YOU think they will DO with YOUR information?

It doesn't matter what anybody thinks they will do with the information. They quite simply shouldn't be asking for it in the first place because there is the simple fact that once they do have it there is the potential for them to abuse that information.

I don't believe in giving up a few personal freedoms just to pad myself with an illusion of feeling a bit more safe so I'd have to agree with the original poster here in that this may be going a bit overboard on the security issues.

It always seems small at first, but everything is usually just a stepping stone to a heightened level.

he still stands · July 2008

Sludge Factory wrote:

It always seems small at first, but everything is usually just a stepping stone to a heightened level.

EXACTLY.

Especially with the vast improvements in technology, there is an endless amount of use and abuse that can be done with this data. I don't know that anyone here can comprehend how many ways our government can use this data to oppress us.

I think the people who don't see a problem with these government activities just need to read "1984", see the similarities between the book and today's world, and you'll see the "slippery slope" that we're talking about here.

dunkman · July 2008

Heineken Helen wrote:

I'm not talking about British immigration!

was mrs dunks cousin honest about the conviction on the visa form? I'm surprised at that... I know people refused entry to the US for less.

read two posts back.. I WAS talking about UK immigration...

He didnt need a VISA to come here, but he has to declare any current convictions... he didnt need entry into the US.. he is American.. i said he is from Virginia.

dunkman · July 2008

he still stands wrote:

EXACTLY.

Especially with the vast improvements in technology, there is an endless amount of use and abuse that can be done with this data. I don't know that anyone here can comprehend how many ways our government can use this data to oppress us.

I think the people who don't see a problem with these government activities just need to read "1984", see the similarities between the book and today's world, and you'll see the "slippery slope" that we're talking about here.

i work for the government... i know first hand how genuinely inept it is with its data storage.

they dont give 1 iota about some guy from Iowa visiting his Auntie Jenny in North Wales... but if he is a convincted sex offender... or a drug dealer... thats when they take notice... 99% of the tourists entering here will never be bothered.

he still stands · July 2008

dunkman wrote:

i work for the government... i know first hand how genuinely inept it is with its data storage.

they dont give 1 iota about some guy from Iowa visiting his Auntie Jenny in North Wales... but if he is a convincted sex offender... or a drug dealer... thats when they take notice... 99% of the tourists entering here will never be bothered.

you must be in the Outer Party then...

I know it may seem like paranoia, but tracking my movements, where I am traveling, and what I'm doing is NOT something I enjoy.

Sludge Factory · July 2008

he still stands wrote:

EXACTLY.

Especially with the vast improvements in technology, there is an endless amount of use and abuse that can be done with this data. I don't know that anyone here can comprehend how many ways our government can use this data to oppress us.

I think the people who don't see a problem with these government activities just need to read "1984", see the similarities between the book and today's world, and you'll see the "slippery slope" that we're talking about here.

I haven't even read that book but it just is so blatantly obvious to me and it stuns me with the amount of complacency most people seem to have with this kind of thing.

Sludge Factory · July 2008

dunkman wrote:

i work for the government... i know first hand how genuinely inept it is with its data storage.

they dont give 1 iota about some guy from Iowa visiting his Auntie Jenny in North Wales... but if he is a convincted sex offender... or a drug dealer... thats when they take notice... 99% of the tourists entering here will never be bothered.

I too, work for the government and I definitely pick up on certain personalities who, given the opportunity, will abuse their power to conform things to their personal views.

dunkman · July 2008

Sludge Factory wrote:

I too, work for the government and I definitely pick up on certain personalities who, given the opportunity, will abuse their power to conform things to their personal views.

not quite the same as an office full of Big Brothers all frantically searching our details and hoping to use our passport pics and our fingerprints to dupe the world into believing one of us is responsible for the death of the Leader of Ecuador's daughter though is it...

picking up on the personality of an unscrupulous government worker is not quite the same as what Helen and others on here thinks is happening to their details once they click 'send' on their next US travel plans.

dunkman · July 2008

Heineken Helen wrote:

Dunk... if somebody already has any conviction they won't be allowed in anyway... the only people allowed in are those with NO criminal records... so I don't see how that's relevant?

in where? Ireland? the US?

remember this post as you have typed in "..the only people allowed in are those with NO criminal records.."

Collin: i've never said i was ok with having a chip put under my skin.. i'm not a big fan of needles and stuff.. but a card with a chip on it.. no problem

fanch75 · July 2008

White person topics in this thread:

Diversity

Awareness

Traveling

Being an expert on YOUR culture

Being offended

eyedclaar · July 2008

Sludge Factory wrote:

I too, work for the government and I definitely pick up on certain personalities who, given the opportunity, will abuse their power to conform things to their personal views.

Agreed.

I too, work for the government, and the less they know about my activites the better. I will take freedom over safety any day.

Heineken Helen · July 2008

dunkman wrote:

i work for the government... i know first hand how genuinely inept it is with its data storage.

Isn't that one more good reason not to let them have it? Forget about what THEY might do with it... like I said, any computer database system is potentially hackable... also they could leave all that sensitive information lying around on a train... twice... or something!

Going to the US?

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