One of the main problems I have with the fingerprint/eyescan is why should I have to give to a foreign government something which they cannot demand of their own citizens and that my government cannot demand of me
EDIT: just read Hells post above. Other than the 'among others' isn't everything else on the visa waiver form you fill in already? ... been a few years since I visited the US
So are we strangers now? Like rock and roll and the radio?
I think the only reasonable solution is this: if they insist on taking all this information about every tourist... every tourist should go on a crime spree while they're over there. Make it all worthwhile.
Or we should at least think about doing it in the future don't ya think
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
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Had I not found this love with you
like what? thats what I'm asking... what do you think they'll do with it?
frame you for international espionage? blame the death of a russian diplomat on you? clone you? make fake passports for CIA agents in Libya?
maybe in the movies...
Hmmm... cos with the possible exception of cloning... I'm sure the rest has NEVER happened
The possibilities of what they could do with this information are ENDLESS dunk. And none of them seem very good really :cool: If I give specific examples you'll just call me a leftie loony!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
One of the main problems I have with the fingerprint/eyescan is why should I have to give to a foreign government something which they cannot demand of their own citizens and that my government cannot demand of me
EDIT: just read Hells post above. Other than the 'among others' isn't everything else already on the visa waiver form you fill in already? ... been a few years since I visited the US
Yes... but now they will keep it for 15 years... and allow everyone down to local governments and foreign governments (including your own, who don't have the right to ask you for it themselves). Also they can now contact everyone down to your local priest for information on you BEFORE you travel AND they're taking the information on kids.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Among others is pretty vague, huh? That's a bit more than flight information don't ya think? We mention fingerprints cos that's ALREADY in place... we already have to give prints to get into the states. YOU mentioned DNA, I told you not to get me started... but I'd imagine you think that's a good thing anyway.
READ the info before laughing it off in the future.
i did read it all... 'among others' will not include the extraction of DNA
The traveler must provide (in English) biographical data including name, birth date, and passport information, as well as travel information such as the flight number and destination address in the United States. The traveler will also be required to answer VWP eligibility questions regarding communicable diseases, arrests and convictions for certain crimes, and past history of visa revocation or deportation, among others.
the 'among others' is directly related to the answering of QUESTIONS... it in no way says the removal of DNA and in relation to my reply of Mammasan's post it also doesnt say that a 5 year old child has her fingerprints taken.. the among others is just that... they may ask you OTHER QUESTIONS!!
Electronic System for Travel Authorization... its an electronic system you're talking about here... fingerprints are not yet taken electronically...
"Once ESTA is mandatory, all nationals or citizens of VWP countries who plan to travel to the United States for temporary business or pleasure under the VWP will be required to receive an electronic travel authorization through ESTA prior to boarding a U.S.-bound airplane or vessel. "
this is an electronic travel document that you fill in PRIOR to travelling... not something you fingerprint for at the airport.
READ things first.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Hmmm... cos with the possible exception of cloning... I'm sure the rest has NEVER happened
The possibilities of what they could do with this information are ENDLESS dunk. And none of them seem very good really :cool: If I give specific examples you'll just call me a leftie loony!
for the 3rd time... what do YOU think they will DO with YOUR information?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i just searched that entire link Helen gave... i cant see anywhere where it says about fingerprints, DNA samples, blood, saliva, hair, etc....
its an electronic system which will allow the user access to America... all that will be stored will be your date of entry, departure and any flights.
all of which are stored on a travel agents system anyway.
why the fear?
If that is the case then no there really is nothing to fear at all and as I mentioned even if they did finger print it is not a huge deal by itself but our government does have the nasty tendency of pushing the envelope when it comes to infringement on civil liberties and privacy. It's the whole slippery slope scenerio. Once you allow them to take an inch they will end up taking a mile.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
the 'among others' is directly related to the answering of QUESTIONS... it in no way says the removal of DNA and in relation to my reply of Mammasan's post it also doesnt say that a 5 year old child has her fingerprints taken..
DUNK... a 5 year old ALREADY has her fingerprints taken to go to the states... don't you know this? I gave MY print last year to go to Chicago.
YOU were the one who brought up DNA... not me!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
for the 3rd time... what do YOU think they will DO with YOUR information?
Much as I appreciate your constant efforts to make fun of me and my leftiness :rolleyes: ... you can just fuck right off if you want me to answer that because where there are endless possibilities and where a specific answer indicates mental issues... in this case an answer just ain't worth it
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
If that is the case then no there really is nothing to fear at all and as I mentioned even if they did finger print it is not a huge deal by itself but our government does have the nasty tendency of pushing the envelope when it comes to infringement on civil liberties and privacy. It's the whole slippery slope scenerio. Once you allow them to take an inch they will end up taking a mile.
Last year when I went to the states and when everyone else travels to the states these days... they take your fingerprint AND scan your eyes. I don't see why they could POSSIBLY want any more once they have that
and dunk or anyone else has failed to come up with a good reason... apart from possible future crimes people MAY commit
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Yes... but now they will keep it for 15 years... and allow everyone down to local governments and foreign governments (including your own, who don't have the right to ask you for it themselves). Also they can now contact everyone down to your local priest for information on you BEFORE you travel AND they're taking the information on kids.
lets dispel the myths.
1. keep what exactly? your travel plans? thats all the ESTA database will store.. fingerprints /DNA were brought up by others and are not part of the original thread subject which was the ESTA.
2. my government will only receive this information, subject to the various protocols and beaurocracy if they consider me a suspect in a major crime/terrorist action. if my government want info on my about my priest they can easily see that on the census data, then query that census data based on my postcode.. etc.
Information may be shared with appropriate federal, state, local, tribal, and foreign governmental agencies or multilateral governmental organizations responsible for investigating or prosecuting the violations of, or for enforcing or implementing, a statute, rule, regulation, order or license, or where DHS believes information would assist enforcement of civil or criminal laws. Additionally, information may be shared when DHS reasonably believes such use is to assist in anti-terrorism efforts or intelligence gathering related to national or international security or transnational crime. All sharing will remain consistent with the Privacy Act System of Records Notice, which is available on the DHS Web site.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
DUNK... a 5 year old ALREADY has her fingerprints taken to go to the states... don't you know this? I gave MY print last year to go to Chicago.
YOU were the one who brought up DNA... not me!
when you're finished googling come back and tell us how much you 'know' about it :rolleyes:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
DUNK... a 5 year old ALREADY has her fingerprints taken to go to the states... don't you know this? I gave MY print last year to go to Chicago.
YOU were the one who brought up DNA... not me!
my post was directed at Mammasan who in response to this thread about ESTA mentioned fingerprints... the ESTA doesnt include fingerprinting as its a procedure you do PRIOR to even arriving in the US.
the info you give on a ESTA is the info you give your travel agent, its on your passport, etc etc etc...
its no more or no less than that.
fingerprinting and eyeball scanning are clearly already in operation.... this NEW procedure doesnt even mention those things... hence my skepticism at all this hoo-hah about it all.
EDIT: i brought up DNA in relation to something totally out of context with this thread... you've made it into a thing... this thread is about the ESTA... which isnt a fingerprint/DNA storage procedure.. Australia already has something like it... go lambast them
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
when you're finished googling come back and tell us how much you 'know' about it :rolleyes:
its maybe something you should do once in a while before going apeshit about a procedure thats not even in place yet.
they dont do a visa debit card in Ireland apparently :rolleyes:
it's called reading about the subject matter... like you 'know' any more about it than me.. you just read the same fucking website?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
my post was directed at Mammasan who in response to this thread about ESTA mentioned fingerprints... the ESTA doesnt include fingerprinting as its a procedure you do PRIOR to even arriving in the US.
the info you give on a ESTA is the info you give your travel agent, its on your passport, etc etc etc...
its no more or no less than that.
fingerprinting and eyeball scanning are clearly already in operation.... this NEW procedure doesnt even mention those things... hence my skepticism at all this hoo-hah about it all.
Hang on... I've mentioned at least three times how fingerprinting and eye scanning is already in operation IN THIS THREAD! :rolleyes:
That's fine... you just continue to hand over whatever info you want... if you're happy with that... but don't expect everyone else to be :mad:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
EDIT: i brought up DNA in relation to something totally out of context with this thread... you've made it into a thing... this thread is about the ESTA... which isnt a fingerprint/DNA storage procedure.. Australia already has something like it... go lambast them
YOU mentioned DNA first... I said don't get me started... next post you mentioned how it has nothing to do with DNA, I said 'I know, you brought it up'... then NEXT post you mentioned AGAIN how it has nothing to do with DNA... again, I said 'I know, you brought it up'... so how I made it into a thing is beyond me
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
its maybe something you should do once in a while before going apeshit about a procedure thats not even in place yet.
they dont do a visa debit card in Ireland apparently :rolleyes:
it's called reading about the subject matter... like you 'know' any more about it than me.. you just read the same fucking website?
what are you getting so fucking annoyed about? You seem to enjoy taking the piss out of me on these matters and it's getting really really fucking old and boring dunk!
I'm sure everyone else was willing to have a grown up conversation about it til you bring your little issues into it.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
That's fine... you just continue to hand over whatever info you want... if you're happy with that... but don't expect everyone else to be :mad:
and conversely you cant get mad at people who just dont see it as a big thing... i'm not expecting people to be happy about it but if you want to go to america then fill in the fuckin forms... if you dont then just dont fill them in... dont go?!
i WANT to go to the US and if it means telling them that 13 years ago i got fined £50 for pissing in the street than thats what i'll do... if it means telling them my height, eye colour, fingerprints, etc.. then thats ok for me (and obviously it is for about 30 million other people who visit each year)
i dont plan any major terrorist activity on my travels, dont want to murder anyone... i doubt they'll use my ID to conduct international murder and intrigue using spies and aliases etc etc...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
YOU mentioned DNA first... I said don't get me started... next post you mentioned how it has nothing to do with DNA, I said 'I know, you brought it up'... then NEXT post you mentioned AGAIN how it has nothing to do with DNA... again, I said 'I know, you brought it up'... so how I made it into a thing is beyond me
and in the event you maybe do do something wrong then they'll be able to match your fingerprints and catch you quicker.
i cant understand what the fuss is about.... you moan if the police dont catch criminals then moan if they put things into place to try and catch them?
all school janitors must go through the Disclosure Process now... this after the Soham murders a while back... are there rights being violated?? i for one couldnt give a fuck if they are... they are working with kids...
loony lefties are all for human rights and stuff... wait till there house is broken into and then here them cry on TV about how the police dont have a national DNA/fingerprint database... of course they dont... you didnt want one?!?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
and conversely you cant get mad at people who just dont see it as a big thing... i'm not expecting people to be happy about it but if you want to go to america then fill in the fuckin forms... if you dont then just dont fill them in... dont go?!
but don't you see... there's a lot of instances that equate. Like it's as simple as if you don't wanna give them that information, don't go. My point is why the hell should I have to? Why should it BE a choice... why do I have to give up private information on myself that they will hold for 15 years just cos I want to do a week long roadtrip. NOT even getting into the finger print thing :eek:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I'm sure everyone else was willing to have a grown up conversation about it til you bring your little issues into it.
its the message pit.. i seriously doubt that
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I will just let the Scot and Irish duke this one out.
Nah, I'm done! Was hoping we could have a mature discussion for once... but when someone mentions 'loony lefties' in their first post... and comes into any thread like this to simply take the piss out of me... it gets pretty fucking tiring :(
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
but don't you see... there's a lot of instances that equate. Like it's as simple as if you don't wanna give them that information, don't go. My point is why the hell should I have to? Why should it BE a choice... why do I have to give up private information on myself that they will hold for 15 years just cos I want to do a week long roadtrip. NOT even getting into the finger print thing :eek:
i understand what you're saying but in strange way its like this forum... those are the rules you must adhere to be on here... thats what the US wants from you to enter into its borders...
lets say a man was being tracked for terrorism related activities, and he gained entry into the US somehow.. wouldnt it be in their best interests to know where this guy had been, was going, what flights he was due on, had been on, his prints (sorry! ) etc etc...
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Nah, I'm done! Was hoping we could have a mature discussion for once... but when someone mentions 'loony lefties' in their first post... and comes into any thread like this to simply take the piss out of me... it gets pretty fucking tiring :(
i didnt come in to take the piss... but it was you who says things like 'still googling dunk' then ... kettle black etc...
i came onto this thread as I am totally against conspiracy theorists and all their scaremongering and worry about things that dont actually happen except in the movies...
you fill out your details in every aspect of daily life.. car, passport, bank, tv licence, doctors, prescriptions, blah blah... totally endless... filling in a an electronic form about you travel plans when visiting another country is microscopic in its annoyance in comparison to normal daily life.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
i understand what you're saying but in strange way its like this forum... those are the rules you must adhere to be on here... thats what the US wants from you to enter into its borders...
lets say a man was being tracked for terrorism related activities, and he gained entry into the US somehow.. wouldnt it be in their best interests to know where this guy had been, was going, what flights he was due on, had been on, his prints (sorry! ) etc etc...
I know it's the rules I must adhere to if I want to go there... I've made the point that I'm now going to have to consider whether I want to go there THAT much! And just cos rules are in place... doesn't mean I have to agree to them... and doesn't make them right.
I can understand background checks if you want to work with kids... but a background check simply to go on holiday is a whole different story :eek:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I know it's the rules I must adhere to if I want to go there... I've made the point that I'm now going to have to consider whether I want to go there THAT much! And just cos rules are in place... doesn't mean I have to agree to them... and doesn't make them right.
like i said.. i understand that.. i truly do.. I and many others like me are ok with giving out their info if thats what the destination country wants.. you and others like you arent. fair enough
I can understand background checks if you want to work with kids... but a background check simply to go on holiday is a whole different story :eek:
hmmm.. i dunno... i'd be safer in the knowledge that the Scottish government refused entry to a suspected/convicted paedophile than i would be if we didnt have such checks...
ESTA adds another layer of security that allows DHS to determine, in advance of travel, whether an individual is eligible to travel to the United States under the VWP and whether such travel poses a law enforcement or security risk.
i'm sorry, but i just dont think that this is such a bad idea... if i was a muslim guy from Oman then i might think differently... but i'm not so its not a big deal to me
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
like i said.. i understand that.. i truly do.. I and many others like me are ok with giving out their info if thats what the destination country wants.. you and others like you arent. fair enough
hmmm.. i dunno... i'd be safer in the knowledge that the Scottish government refused entry to a suspected/convicted paedophile than i would be if we didnt have such checks...
ESTA adds another layer of security that allows DHS to determine, in advance of travel, whether an individual is eligible to travel to the United States under the VWP and whether such travel poses a law enforcement or security risk.
i'm sorry, but i just dont think that this is such a bad idea... if i was a muslim guy from Oman then i might think differently... but i'm not so its not a big deal to me
I think your last paragraph kinda sums up where I think you're coming from on this.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
lets say a man was being tracked for terrorism related activities, and he gained entry into the US somehow.. wouldnt it be in their best interests to know where this guy had been, was going, what flights he was due on, had been on, his prints (sorry! ) etc etc...
I think your last paragraph kinda sums up where I think you're coming from on this.
well all i'm saying is that the procedures they put in place will be 'used' more on specific target groups... and history kinda shows that past terrorists incidents have, in the vast majority, been carried out by Middle Eastern men who follow Islam.
it's a situation thats been created for the US.. not by them.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Comments
EDIT: just read Hells post above. Other than the 'among others' isn't everything else on the visa waiver form you fill in already? ... been a few years since I visited the US
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
The possibilities of what they could do with this information are ENDLESS dunk. And none of them seem very good really :cool: If I give specific examples you'll just call me a leftie loony!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
i did read it all... 'among others' will not include the extraction of DNA
The traveler must provide (in English) biographical data including name, birth date, and passport information, as well as travel information such as the flight number and destination address in the United States. The traveler will also be required to answer VWP eligibility questions regarding communicable diseases, arrests and convictions for certain crimes, and past history of visa revocation or deportation, among others.
the 'among others' is directly related to the answering of QUESTIONS... it in no way says the removal of DNA and in relation to my reply of Mammasan's post it also doesnt say that a 5 year old child has her fingerprints taken.. the among others is just that... they may ask you OTHER QUESTIONS!!
Electronic System for Travel Authorization... its an electronic system you're talking about here... fingerprints are not yet taken electronically...
"Once ESTA is mandatory, all nationals or citizens of VWP countries who plan to travel to the United States for temporary business or pleasure under the VWP will be required to receive an electronic travel authorization through ESTA prior to boarding a U.S.-bound airplane or vessel. "
this is an electronic travel document that you fill in PRIOR to travelling... not something you fingerprint for at the airport.
READ things first.
for the 3rd time... what do YOU think they will DO with YOUR information?
If that is the case then no there really is nothing to fear at all and as I mentioned even if they did finger print it is not a huge deal by itself but our government does have the nasty tendency of pushing the envelope when it comes to infringement on civil liberties and privacy. It's the whole slippery slope scenerio. Once you allow them to take an inch they will end up taking a mile.
YOU were the one who brought up DNA... not me!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
and dunk or anyone else has failed to come up with a good reason... apart from possible future crimes people MAY commit
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
lets dispel the myths.
1. keep what exactly? your travel plans? thats all the ESTA database will store.. fingerprints /DNA were brought up by others and are not part of the original thread subject which was the ESTA.
2. my government will only receive this information, subject to the various protocols and beaurocracy if they consider me a suspect in a major crime/terrorist action. if my government want info on my about my priest they can easily see that on the census data, then query that census data based on my postcode.. etc.
Information may be shared with appropriate federal, state, local, tribal, and foreign governmental agencies or multilateral governmental organizations responsible for investigating or prosecuting the violations of, or for enforcing or implementing, a statute, rule, regulation, order or license, or where DHS believes information would assist enforcement of civil or criminal laws. Additionally, information may be shared when DHS reasonably believes such use is to assist in anti-terrorism efforts or intelligence gathering related to national or international security or transnational crime. All sharing will remain consistent with the Privacy Act System of Records Notice, which is available on the DHS Web site.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
my post was directed at Mammasan who in response to this thread about ESTA mentioned fingerprints... the ESTA doesnt include fingerprinting as its a procedure you do PRIOR to even arriving in the US.
the info you give on a ESTA is the info you give your travel agent, its on your passport, etc etc etc...
its no more or no less than that.
fingerprinting and eyeball scanning are clearly already in operation.... this NEW procedure doesnt even mention those things... hence my skepticism at all this hoo-hah about it all.
EDIT: i brought up DNA in relation to something totally out of context with this thread... you've made it into a thing... this thread is about the ESTA... which isnt a fingerprint/DNA storage procedure.. Australia already has something like it... go lambast them
its maybe something you should do once in a while before going apeshit about a procedure thats not even in place yet.
they dont do a visa debit card in Ireland apparently
it's called reading about the subject matter... like you 'know' any more about it than me.. you just read the same fucking website?
That's fine... you just continue to hand over whatever info you want... if you're happy with that... but don't expect everyone else to be :mad:
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
YOU mentioned DNA first... I said don't get me started... next post you mentioned how it has nothing to do with DNA, I said 'I know, you brought it up'... then NEXT post you mentioned AGAIN how it has nothing to do with DNA... again, I said 'I know, you brought it up'... so how I made it into a thing is beyond me
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I'm sure everyone else was willing to have a grown up conversation about it til you bring your little issues into it.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
yeah, i think we can drop this.. you've misinterpreted what i was saying (in reply to someone else's post) but anyhoo
and conversely you cant get mad at people who just dont see it as a big thing... i'm not expecting people to be happy about it but if you want to go to america then fill in the fuckin forms... if you dont then just dont fill them in... dont go?!
i WANT to go to the US and if it means telling them that 13 years ago i got fined £50 for pissing in the street than thats what i'll do... if it means telling them my height, eye colour, fingerprints, etc.. then thats ok for me (and obviously it is for about 30 million other people who visit each year)
i dont plan any major terrorist activity on my travels, dont want to murder anyone... i doubt they'll use my ID to conduct international murder and intrigue using spies and aliases etc etc...
i mentioned DNA in relation to this:-
to which i answered:-
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
its the message pit.. i seriously doubt that
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
i understand what you're saying but in strange way its like this forum... those are the rules you must adhere to be on here... thats what the US wants from you to enter into its borders...
lets say a man was being tracked for terrorism related activities, and he gained entry into the US somehow.. wouldnt it be in their best interests to know where this guy had been, was going, what flights he was due on, had been on, his prints (sorry!
i didnt come in to take the piss... but it was you who says things like 'still googling dunk' then ... kettle black etc...
i came onto this thread as I am totally against conspiracy theorists and all their scaremongering and worry about things that dont actually happen except in the movies...
you fill out your details in every aspect of daily life.. car, passport, bank, tv licence, doctors, prescriptions, blah blah... totally endless... filling in a an electronic form about you travel plans when visiting another country is microscopic in its annoyance in comparison to normal daily life.
I can understand background checks if you want to work with kids... but a background check simply to go on holiday is a whole different story :eek:
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
like i said.. i understand that.. i truly do.. I and many others like me are ok with giving out their info if thats what the destination country wants.. you and others like you arent. fair enough
hmmm.. i dunno... i'd be safer in the knowledge that the Scottish government refused entry to a suspected/convicted paedophile than i would be if we didnt have such checks...
ESTA adds another layer of security that allows DHS to determine, in advance of travel, whether an individual is eligible to travel to the United States under the VWP and whether such travel poses a law enforcement or security risk.
i'm sorry, but i just dont think that this is such a bad idea... if i was a muslim guy from Oman then i might think differently... but i'm not so its not a big deal to me
I think your last paragraph kinda sums up where I think you're coming from on this.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
So where do you draw the line, dunk?
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well all i'm saying is that the procedures they put in place will be 'used' more on specific target groups... and history kinda shows that past terrorists incidents have, in the vast majority, been carried out by Middle Eastern men who follow Islam.
it's a situation thats been created for the US.. not by them.