Saay NO to violence against women!

fragileblake wrote:

Wow, I'll rush out and tell the world that they need to conform to your specific standards of acknowledgment. You've got some control issues man. And again, if people disagree with you they aren't accepting reality as a whole? I'm a man who has never been a victim of domestic violence and has never personally known anyone thats been a victim (to my knowledge) what desire or experience does me being concerned about violence against women reflect? Did it occur to you that I might just have a different view of the world than you do?

Sex. Lots of men run to the defense of women for reasons of sex. I thought that was pretty obvious. Just look at Soulsinging and Dunkman.

Ahnimus wrote:

I'll tell you what. When people drop "women" from the "Stop violence" titles, then I'll consider that egalitarianism has truly taken hold and people are ready to accept reality as a whole and not just the parts that reflect their own desires or experiences.

So you think the best way to get people to that is by brow beating them with your point of view and attacking based on semantics?

People will relate things to their own experience, we all do it. You've done it yourself here in this thread. AND there's nothing wrong with that.
But if you want me to see your point of view beating me around the head with it isn't going to do it. I'm more likely to turn off completely, dismiss you out of turn and go about my business. If you really want this to change then you need to find ways to discuss it with people, draw their attention to it, educate them to form their own opinions and decide together the best course of action.

It seems to me that dropping "women" from "stop violence" titles is a stupid way of going about it. Wouldn't it make more sense to include another "stop violence" title with "men" in it? That way you are being inclusive? And on that premise more likely to be supported?

Ahnimus wrote:

Right, and the Bonobo females will brutally maim or murder a male who refuses to have sex with them. So we can't derive our own human behavior from the behavior of Bonobos. It might help us to understand ourselves to some degree, but we certainly don't accept that as an example of human behavior. One thing that human females do is congregate and conspire against other members of their species. This can sometimes be more harmful in the long-run than a broken arm from a brawl. Society tries to hold violence in check, but fails miserably at, any human can justify certain acts of violence. But social conspiracies aren't held in check at all by society. They are encouraged if anything, unless of course they happen within certain legal jurisdictions.

who said anything about deriving our own behaviours from bonobos? i was talking animals in general. and i agree strong females will gather a flock around them for conspiratorial purposes. much in the same way i imagine some men get together and decide that gang rape is a fabulous way to kill some time . or the way they beat up someone they deem weaker or different than themselves just to show their alpha tendencies. but that's a little more than psychological conspiracy wouldnt you say? and yes i am aware that females are capable of forming gangs and beating up on unsuspecting victims.

Yes, I'm posting on this thread so that my girlfriend who does not read this message board will be motivated to have sex with me. You know that you come across as an arrogant misogynist that thinks that hes omniscient? Why can't people just disagree with you because of an intellectual disagreement? Why do they have to be somehow less logical (ie. inferior). You obviously have some serious self esteem issues.

Ahnimus wrote:

Sex. Lots of men run to the defense of women for reasons of sex. I thought that was pretty obvious. Just look at Soulsinging and Dunkman.

Ahnimus wrote:

It's not a personal attack. I'm saying there is nothing about cate that would motivate me to a second date, let alone rape or living together. Obviously no one ever acts without motivation. If you don't understand that, then you really don't know a thing about human behavior.

There are random acts of violence perpetrated by people known as psychopaths, the occurance of which is rarer than death by a lightning bolt. Just because they are ideal characters for hollywood movies doesn't mean that there are madmen overthrowing civilization.

:mad:

you don't think that women get raped by strangers? I happen to know one.

Jeanie wrote:

So you think the best way to get people to that is by brow beating them with your point of view and attacking based on semantics?

People will relate things to their own experience, we all do it. You've done it yourself here in this thread. AND there's nothing wrong with that.
But if you want me to see your point of view beating me around the head with it isn't going to do it. I'm more likely to turn off completely, dismiss you out of turn and go about my business. If you really want this to change then you need to find ways to discuss it with people, draw their attention to it, educate them to form their own opinions and decide together the best course of action.

It seems to me that dropping "women" from "stop violence" titles is a stupid way of going about it. Wouldn't it make more sense to include another "stop violence" title with "men" in it? That way you are being inclusive? And on that premise more likely to be supported?

No, because if I'm being EXCLUSIVE by excluding women (not inclusive), then I'm not capturing their interest either. It's the in-group-out-group problem, so instead of compartmentalizing the issue, I would just bring it all into one common forum.

I really dislike shows like CityLine or any other wholely female hosted talk shows which focuses on "female issues" they just don't capture my interest. I like the Agenda which usually has a mix of men, women, and other races, and all the people are someway involved in the actual field of study. It's also professionally moderated by Steve Paikan and an Agenda is laid out, so the debate progresses smoothly. I didn't like on the Black Women show that the women complained about men being part of the debate. That's the kind of exclusion that is way too common in these kinds of things. We have groups, or compartments of people with different opinions, but they all think alike within their own group, and typically if you don't think like them, you are outed. I call that a cult, I can't think of anything more suiting of the term.

No shit sherlock.
You were the one that was saying that someone needed a motive to be violent. You were also saying that someone would not be attacked after a first date. You were also saying that I somehow thought that madmen were amok because I simply acknowledged that a certain type of behavior was possible.
You're the one thats missing the point.

Ahnimus wrote:

You might also be struck by lightning or die of a dread disease if you leave your house today. And the point is?

Ahnimus wrote:

Why would they?

They would have to have a motivation to do so to begin with.

If you get out early, it's not like you have 15 years and 3 children together.

Some people do not need motivation to commit violence. It gives them a rush just like drugs. I knew of a case where a girl that was close to me tried her hardest to get away from an abusive bf but he kept coming after her. She even begged him but it just gave him more power. Unfortunately after many non-violent attempts and months of seeing her endure the worst I ended up resorting to violence myself to solve her issue. Point is as you have mentioned its in some peoples nature/nurture.

I would also like to mention that there is a point in what you say. It stems from the example of the woman who was punished in Saudi Arabia recently. Everyone chose to ignore that the guy with her was also raped and punished and focused the attention on her.

Finally, the way I see it fighting violence against women doesn't take away from the fight against violence against men. Its good to fight against any type of violence. I feel the crimes committed against woman are more emotionally scarring than the crimes against men; be it the nature of the crime or the nature of men. But this is just my opinion.

Ahnimus, you sound like my bf! Lol. :mad:

Ahnimus wrote:

I think "Power" as a motivation is very rare. I think that needs to be refined a little bit. Sure, someone might tell a white lie about a coworker to get a promotion. But they aren't very likely to murder them just to get the promotion.

So, sure, you guys are providing lots of possibilities, but not many probable occurances to warrant such a wide overview of human behavior.

tell me how "power" isn't the motivation when you get raped by a stranger that follows you out of a bar? someone that you didn't even talk to in the bar but they put something in your drink when you went to the restroom.