Suicide

12467…12

Comments

  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    chopitdown wrote:
    yes, wanting relief from pain is selfish b/c you are putting your needs or desires above anyone elses. Selfishness is not always bad.

    Really? How many times have you said someone with a tooth ache is selfish for seeing a dentist?

    Selfishness has a negative connotation and people tend to use that word when they disapprove or disagree with someone's actions...
    i think suicide is the ultimate selfish act is b/c it leaves no room for change or for changing that one action.

    ... but it seems you label almost every action selfish, so I can't really disagree with you.

    But if all actions are indeed selfish, why even consider it when discussing anything?

    But I agree, suicide is a permanent choice and the fact that it cannot be reversed should be the focus in your argument, not the selfishness of the act.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    suicide is a mental illness... people who suffer with depression have chemicals in their brains all messed up...

    whether it be legal or illegal... it's not illegal in all states... i personally don't think it should be illegal... but i do think these people need help... and should be reasoned out of ending their own lives... if it's a selfish act, that's not important... what's important is that these people get treatment because it's a disease... an illness... it's not normal. it's nothing spiritual, it's the brain not functioning right. why is this even a debate?
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    suicide is a mental illness...

    What?

    There are rational, sane people who want end their lives for many different reason. Treating all of them like they are mentally ill is insane (no pun intended).

    Of course, mentally ill people should get the proper attention.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Read Albert Camus' 'The myth of Sisyphus'. It's a philosophical essay on the subject of suicide. Very interesting.


    I will. Thanks.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    suicide is a mental illness... people who suffer with depression have chemicals in their brains all messed up...

    whether it be legal or illegal... it's not illegal in all states... i personally don't think it should be illegal... but i do think these people need help... and should be reasoned out of ending their own lives... if it's a selfish act, that's not important... what's important is that these people get treatment because it's a disease... an illness... it's not normal. it's nothing spiritual, it's the brain not functioning right. why is this even a debate?

    What if your "mental illness" and need to commit suicide were brought on by medical intervention in the first place? What if it was the doctor and his prescriptions that caused the problem? What good the doctor then?
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    chopitdown wrote:
    well, the way you came across implied that it was almost noble (the whole, I don't want you to see me suffer, so I will take that burden from you). I agree that society is selfish and people dont' want others to kill themselves for selfish reasons, but here is where we have our fundamental difference in re: to personal liberty. So we can agree it is selfish on both parts, but wont agree that people shouldn't do it, or at least is a quasi-legitimate option.

    not noble, but potentially more considerate of the other person than someone denying a suffering person a way out is.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    chopitdown wrote:
    i watched my grandmother die from bone / breast cancer (she battled it for 7 or 8 years). I watched my aunt die from gallbladder cancer. My friends mother killed herself. I can understand why each of those people probably would have welcomed suicide or relief. So I am not just making htings up out of thin air and trying to piss people off, there's no need for that, which is why every post that I've talked about it being selfish i've also made it very clear that i can see why, without a doubt, someone would want to do that. I made it a point to say that b/c i realize what I'm saying, so i'm sorry that I offended you and esp with this topic it is a very touchy topic and it's bound to spark serious debate and bring in personal stories etc... Please read my entire post and take both points away from the posts. I'm not some guy who thinks that the end of life is an easy decision; i don't assume that you take it lightly and flippantly, i don't want you to think that i do either. We just happen to have different views.

    so how come the suicidal person is not allowed to be selfish and the other people are?
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Jeanie wrote:
    What if your "mental illness" and need to commit suicide were brought on by medical intervention in the first place? What if it was the doctor and his prescriptions that caused the problem? What good the doctor then?
    that's why i agree with scientologists when they say that medications are not entirely good for you...

    still... it's an illness... there's no way out of it
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    that's why i agree with scientologists when they say that medications are not entirely good for you...

    still... it's an illness... there's no way out of it

    I don't know that in that circumstance I would agree that it's an "illness". A side effect of medication perhaps, but an illness no.
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    that's why i agree with scientologists when they say that medications are not entirely good for you...

    still... it's an illness... there's no way out of it

    suicide by no means comes anywhere near the medical definition of illness. it's a choice. i could just as easily say being a priest is a mental illness just becos it's a huge life-altering choice that i do not agree with or understand. your contention is utterly absurd.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    also... the whole idea about suicide being selfish or unselfish is irrelevant.... afterall, someone who is suicidal, cuts their wrists as a means for gratification, idealizes about someone's head being blown off into billions of pieces are all obscured perceptions caused by neurological disorders.

    whether moral, or immoral... that's also irrelevant. it's a sickness.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    soulsinging wrote:
    suicide by no means comes anywhere near the medical definition of illness. it's a choice. i could just as easily say being a priest is a mental illness just becos it's a huge life-altering choice that i do not agree with or understand. your contention is utterly absurd.
    ahem... tell that to the doctor's that i work with... people who've studied the brain. there are chemical imbalances....

    whether the priest has chemical imbalances or not... at least he's not causing harm to others or himself.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    ahem... tell that to the doctor's that i work with... people who've studied the brain. there are chemical imbalances....

    whether the priest has chemical imbalances or not... at least he's not causing harm to others or himself.

    you are talking about depression, not suicide my friend. suicide is not solely a result of depression.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Jeanie wrote:
    I don't know that in that circumstance I would agree that it's an "illness". A side effect of medication perhaps, but an illness no.
    chemical imbalances? not an illness? these things are based on science...
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    also... the whole idea about suicide being selfish or unselfish is irrelevant.... afterall, someone who is suicidal, cuts their wrists as a means for gratification, idealizes about someone's head being blown off into billions of pieces are all obscured perceptions caused by neurological disorders.

    whether moral, or immoral... that's also irrelevant. it's a sickness.


    Ok, so what about people who are about to be killed by someone else and who rationally decide that they would rather die by their own hand?
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    soulsinging wrote:
    you are talking about depression, not suicide my friend. suicide is not solely a result of depression.
    if you're talking about euthanize... it has nothing to do with suicide.

    otherwise, you're completely wrong.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • deadnothingbetter
    deadnothingbetter Posts: 2,202
    Jeanie wrote:
    Ok, so what about people who are about to be killed by someone else and who rationally decide that they would rather die by their own hand?
    splittin' hairs.... that's a moral question... kinda like euthanization again... completely different.
    This isn't the land of opportunity, it's the land of competition.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    if you're talking about euthanize... it has nothing to do with suicide.

    otherwise, you're completely wrong.

    show me where suicide is classified as a separate medical illness in the dsm? it's often a decision made as a result of illness, but it is not the illness itself. you dont get sick and catch suicide. and you don't say someone had the serial killing sickness. you might say they had diseases xyz that caused them to murder people, but you do not say their illness was serial killing. likewise, you can say diseases xyz caused them to commit suicide, but the suicide is not the illness itself.
  • Jeanie
    Jeanie Posts: 9,446
    deadnothingbetter wrote:
    splittin' hairs.... that's a moral question... kinda like euthanization again... completely different.

    So when you say suicide is an illness you're really only including your narrow definition?
    NOPE!!!

    *~You're IT Bert!~*

    Hold on to the thread
    The currents will shift
  • CorporateWhore
    CorporateWhore Posts: 1,890
    cutback wrote:
    why do feel the need to control other people's lives?

    Why do you feel the need to control other's lives by supporting policies that coerce annual payments out of their checkbooks? Don't give me that crap.
    All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
    -Enoch Powell

Categories