Abortion

in_hiding79 · February 2008

The Illinoisemakers wrote:

What about the man that impregnated you (any women)? They don't get any say?

I don't know, it just seems like since the woman is the one who has to carry it, so maybe she should be the one to make the decision. The guy can tell her what he thinks, but all in all it is her decision!!

_ · February 2008

Mestophar wrote:

A woman who decides alone to abort deserves no man at all. Not even a dog should accompany her through life, because she is likely too selfish to care for it anyway.

Seriously - how can you justify such sweeping, judgemental generalizations?

And why do you have (or at least express) such hatred of women? (I know a really good therapist you could talk to...)

And what about all the men who decide alone to leave women to a life of single motherhood? You can't even begin to tell all women they SHOULD involve the FOB (father of the "baby") in the abortion decision until all men can guarantee that they'll accept their share of the responsibility of parenthood.

_ · February 2008

Mestophar wrote:

Every single reasonable person should understand that sex leads to pregnancy, and if you choose to have sex then you also agree to get pregnant.

Really? So you agree to get pregnant? Because I'm pretty sure you just agree for other people to get pregnant.

prism · February 2008

scb wrote:

Seriously - how can you justify such sweeping, judgemental generalizations?

And why do you have (or at least express) such hatred of women? (I know a really good therapist you could talk to...)

And what about all the men who decide alone to leave women to a life of single motherhood? You can't even begin to tell all women they SHOULD involve the FOB (father of the "baby") in the abortion decision until all men can guarantee that they'll accept their share of the responsibility of parenthood.

exactly. all the more reason why women do and should continue have to right to choose. with pregnancy men have ALWAYS had the choice to either support the woman and the child or walk away. no matter what choice a woman makes she never gets to walk away. anyone that thinks that a woman deciding to have an abortion is "walking away" from an unplanned pregnancy is fucking nuts.

Yoyoyo · February 2008

scb wrote:

Seriously - how can you justify such sweeping, judgemental generalizations?

And why do you have (or at least express) such hatred of women? (I know a really good therapist you could talk to...)

And what about all the men who decide alone to leave women to a life of single motherhood? You can't even begin to tell all women they SHOULD involve the FOB (father of the "baby") in the abortion decision until all men can guarantee that they'll accept their share of the responsibility of parenthood.

The same way you support sweeping generalizations in support of wholesale abortions.

I don't hate women, and I never expressed anything of the sort.

Your last point is saying that two wrongs make a right? It doesn't. The decision to father a child should occur before the decision to have sex, it is the natural outcome and should be expected.

Yoyoyo · February 2008

prism wrote:

exactly. all the more reason why women do and should continue have to right to choose. with pregnancy men have ALWAYS had the choice to either support the woman and the child or walk away. no matter what choice a woman makes she never gets to walk away. anyone that thinks that a woman deciding to have an abortion is "walking away" from an unplanned pregnancy is fucking nuts.

It is walking away. Abortions are basically paying someone to put the baby in the dumpster for you, it is easier to justify if you don't have to go to the convenience store to buy a box of glad garbage bags.

Unplanned pregnancy...haha good one. The best things in life occur spontaneously.

I guess you all believe that women are not meant to be mothers? Is it not plain to see that you are built for it, both physically and emotionally? If pregnancy were meant to be terminated, women would have been born with coat hangers instead of index fingers.

_ · February 2008

311jj wrote:

Whatever happened to safe, rare, and legal? With issues like this, you will always have people on both sides not willing to budge. I consider myself on the pro-life side, but probably one of the very few in the safe, rare, and legal side. As it was said before, I believe the majority of women don't want to have an abortion. Its a terrible thing to go through. For me, there are other choices that would prevent this situation. But, I'm not that woman who is in that position and has to make that decision. I'll let God be the judge. I think if more of the pro-lifers spent their time education young women, teaching about the value of life, helping those who are in these situations, we'd have less abortions. That is something I think both sides want. Fewer abortions. If we outlaw them, we'll have a slew of women going to Canada or even some back alley to have an abortion. I think that's more dangerous that having them legal. Just my 4 cents.

I think you get to the crux of the matter when you say you're pro-life but believe abortion should be legal. Pro-choice and pro-life aren't mutually exclusive terms. The pro-choice argument is that abortion should be a legal (and therefore safe) option - not that women should get abortions. People can think abortion is wrong all they want and that's fine, as long as they don't impose that personal belief on others. (Personally, I would include restricting abortion access, accosting women with unsolicited advice, and passing judgement as imposing one's personal beliefs on others, but I don't think you necessarily have to agree on these points to be pro-choice.)

[Hey - does anyone else think it would be interesting to make a poll asking a) whether or not people are pro-choice and b) whether or not they think abortion should be illegal and see if there's a discrepency?]

I wholeheartedly believe, though, that anyone who wants to reduce abortion - instead of coming down on women who have or are considering abortions - should put their energy into advocating for better access to contraception and comprehensive sex education. That's the only way to make a real difference in the abortion rate.

_ · February 2008

Mestophar wrote:

The same way you support sweeping generalizations in support of wholesale abortions.

I'm not even sure what that means, so you'll have to give me some examples.

Mestophar wrote:

I don't hate women, and I never expressed anything of the sort.

I don't recall you ever saying anything even remotely compassionate or understanding about women, only passing harsh judgements that vilify them and call for their punishment. Sure comes across as hatred to me.

Mestophar wrote:

Your last point is saying that two wrongs make a right? It doesn't. The decision to father a child should occur before the decision to have sex, it is the natural outcome and should be expected.

Your last point is saying that a bunch of "should"s translate into "do"s? They don't. News flash: We are not living in an ideal world. The things you say should happen don't usually happen. Women are doing their best to make difficult decisions in imperfect circumstances, largely created by men who are so quick to judge without having any idea what it's like to be in their situation. I'm not saying that two wrongs make a right. I'm saying that sometimes a woman can't raise a baby - or another baby - on her own.

Ms Silhouette · February 2008

311jj wrote:

Whatever happened to safe, rare, and legal? With issues like this, you will always have people on both sides not willing to budge. I consider myself on the pro-life side, but probably one of the very few in the safe, rare, and legal side. As it was said before, I believe the majority of women don't want to have an abortion. Its a terrible thing to go through. For me, there are other choices that would prevent this situation. But, I'm not that woman who is in that position and has to make that decision. I'll let God be the judge. I think if more of the pro-lifers spent their time education young women, teaching about the value of life, helping those who are in these situations, we'd have less abortions. That is something I think both sides want. Fewer abortions. If we outlaw them, we'll have a slew of women going to Canada or even some back alley to have an abortion. I think that's more dangerous that having them legal. Just my 4 cents.

And I'd also agree with this except to say that why just educate young women?
Why not educate young men about their responsibilities?
If people really want an end to wholesale abortion then isn't it time to FINALLY attribute equal responsibility? It's time for people to stop throwing stones on this issue, and EDUCATE ALL people about the consequences of unprotected sex and if we are going to vilify women for having abortions then I'd like to see a little crazy ass wholesale naming and shaming the fellas that got their end wet and then pissed off and left their mess for someone else to shoulder the burden of. AND that doesn't just apply to abortion either.

momofglynn · February 2008

this goes back to the first post of this thread. Sorry if this one has been discussed already
"Nine months of discomfort is nothing compared to life in prison for voluntary manslaughter!"

Listen my friend became pregnant at 15. Her parents forced her to put the child up for adoption. It's been 19 years and it's been a rough 19 years for her. From eating disorders, to alcohol and drug abuse trying to fill a void that was left with the pulled that child away from her. So it's not just 9 months, it's a lifetime of agony. I understand this is only 1 example but it's the one that is close to me.

I am not willing to take anyone's right away. I respected anyone who has made the decision for adoption and I have respected many who have chosen another path. Of course there are the ones that use it as birth control and honestly they are regretting their actions. Most of them want children now but can not because of the multiple procedures.

It should stand. I do not want it go back to what women were doing before. Abortions will always happen. They have since forever. It not going to change.

My stand is pro-choice. You choose life and that's your choice. I chose life that's my decision. I was given 2 beautiful planned babies. If someone wants the other then who am I to tell someone else what to do. Only they can decide for themselves.

_ · February 2008

Ms Silhouette wrote:

And I'd also agree with this except to say that why just educate young women?
Why not educate young men about their responsibilities?
If people really want an end to wholesale abortion then isn't it time to FINALLY attribute equal responsibility? It's time for people to stop throwing stones on this issue, and EDUCATE ALL people about the consequences of unprotected sex and if we are going to vilify women for having abortions then I'd like to see a little crazy ass wholesale naming and shaming the fellas that got their end wet and then pissed off and left their mess for someone else to shoulder the burden of. AND that doesn't just apply to abortion either.

That's the truest thing I've read all day.

prism · February 2008

Mestophar wrote:

It is walking away. Abortions are basically paying someone to put the baby in the dumpster for you, it is easier to justify if you don't have to go to the convenience store to buy a box of glad garbage bags.

Unplanned pregnancy...haha good one. The best things in life occur spontaneously.

I guess you all believe that women are not meant to be mothers? Is it not plain to see that you are built for it, both physically and emotionally? If pregnancy were meant to be terminated, women would have been born with coat hangers instead of index fingers.

if you think it's walking away, well you've just proven how very delusional you really are.

yes, unplanned. as some are and some or not planned, how is that too difficult for you to comprehend?

some women are meant to be mothers and some women are not. and some women are meant to become mothers at some point(s) in time and not at other point(s) in time. I've had an abortion, I've had two miscarriages and I have two kids....none which have anything to do with the fact that I haven't any right to tell any woman what they should choose to do if or when they become pregnant, nor is it anyone else's call to make.
when a woman has a spontanous abortion (i.e. miscarriage) do you feel you have the right to cast judgement on her? after all according to you, she didn't do "what she was built for"

_ · February 2008

Mestophar wrote:

I guess you all believe that women are not meant to be mothers? Is it not plain to see that you are built for it, both physically and emotionally? If pregnancy were meant to be terminated, women would have been born with coat hangers instead of index fingers.

Are you for real?! Are you suggesting that women's primary purpose is motherhood? I once knew a woman who believed that. When I met her she was pregnant with her 8th child (all from her husband), her husband had left her and she had no idea where he was, she had no money, no friends or family in town, no job, job skills, or education (since she had spent her life caring for her children), and she felt guilty for making the most difficult decision of her life - to have an abortion. What a selfish, evil bitch. :rolleyes: As a test of your humanity, can you not have compassion even for this woman?

I agree that women - not men - have the physical and emotional build for motherhood, which is why women - not men - are perfectly qualified to make their own pregnancy decisions.

Also, if pregnancy were meant to be terminated, earth would have come equipped with plants with abortifacient properties. Oh wait - it did!

in_hiding79 · February 2008

Mestophar wrote:

I guess you all believe that women are not meant to be mothers? Is it not plain to see that you are built for it, both physically and emotionally? If pregnancy were meant to be terminated, women would have been born with coat hangers instead of index fingers.

I know that I WILL NEVER BE A MOTHER AND IT IS BY CHOICE...the thought of baby disgusts me and my husband...I guess motherhood isn't for EVERYBODY!!

Yoyoyo · February 2008

scb wrote:

no job, job skills

She has a job, and she has skills.

Yoyoyo · February 2008

prism wrote:

some women are meant to be mothers and some women are not. and some women are meant to become mothers at some point(s) in time and not at other point(s) in time.

Good thing it's not your job to define our existance.

Yoyoyo · February 2008

in_hiding79 wrote:

I know that I WILL NEVER BE A MOTHER AND IT IS BY CHOICE...the thought of baby disgusts me and my husband...

Quit consuming the earth's resourses please, the earth is a host and you are a parasite.

firstquartermoon · February 2008

Mestophar wrote:

Good thing it's not your job to define our existance.

So it's up to you?

No matter how hard you try you can't legislate morality. It's impossible. They tried it the twenties, and all it did was cost lives. Prohibition of alcohol didn't work, and it won't work for abortions.

I'm pro-choice, but I would be happy if people didn't feel the need to get abortions. But with all the problems in our world (and whatever problem the woman, or somtimes girl, is going through in her life at that moment) I can't say that all children should be brought into it, whether they'll be loved, whether they'll be happy.

Are you saying you want more unhappy, neglected children born into this world? In countries where abortions are illegal (and many other countries all over the world) there are neglected children starving to death, lying in gutters and on the sides of the road until they are scooped into mass-graves. Shouldn't we be concerned with those who are alive? Shouldn't we respond to the cries of children that we can hear, and not the cries that we hope to someday flood this land?

And as far as the peoploe I know, it is those in deeply religious families that end up getting abortions. Families that oppose birth control, oppose sex-education in favor of abstinence education, those are the people that have children that have unprotected, permiscuous sex. As well as the generally uneducated.
A study (I don't have it near me, but saw it on my local news) showed that teens who signed abstinence "promise contracts" were more likely to have unprotected sex.

Also,
You can be pro-choice, but against the idea and necessity for abortions. But we have to ask ourselves, "will forcing these children to be brought into this world make the parents responsible? Or just make unhappy children and another generation of pain and sadness?"

in_hiding79 · February 2008

Mestophar wrote:

Quit consuming the earth's resourses please, the earth is a host and you are a parasite.

well you're an idiot who thinks women were put on this earth to obey you and have YOUR children.....

I would rather go to hell ( if there were such a place) then have your baby!!

Rhinocerous Surprise · February 2008

Mestophar wrote:

Quit consuming the earth's resourses please, the earth is a host and you are a parasite.

Right... along with any woman who physically can't have babies, right? :rolleyes:

Abortion

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