John Kerry Rips The Troops

ledvedderman · October 2006

onelongsong wrote:

i agree. he makes it sound like poor people are so stupid they don't realize they will be shot at. i was born dirt poor and worked 2 jobs plus fronted a band to get on my feet.

How the hell am I making it sound like they are stupid and don't realize they will be shot at? I know they know war is a possibility, but in there are not a whole lot of options for a lot of people and the military is the only war out.

NO ONE should have to die for an education.

onelongsong · October 2006

ledvedderman wrote:

I'm not looking down on anyone man. They choose the path because they have no options. The options given in this thread were: a) study really hard and get a scholarship b) become a great athlete and get a scholarship.

Hell, I grew up in a middle class home and got decent grades and even I couldn't get scholarships or even into the school of my choice. I was good at sports but not anywhere near the level of getting a scholarship.

so when you say "don't have the brains"; you're speaking from experiance?
i can respect that.

Collin · October 2006

onelongsong wrote:

YOU put your life in jeoprady every time you get into a car; or walk a city street. more people were killed by drunk drivers then will ever be killed in iraq.

In the right corner; oranges, in the left corner; apples.

ledvedderman · October 2006

onelongsong wrote:

YOU put your life in jeoprady every time you get into a car; or walk a city street. more people were killed by drunk drivers then will ever be killed in iraq.

What a horrible statement. I could get killed by a bird taking a nose dive and stabbing me in the skull with his beak, OR I could get killed going to war in Iraq with bulletts flying at me, IED's around every corner, and people willing to blow themselves up in order to kill me. Which one do you think is more possible?

ledvedderman · October 2006

onelongsong wrote:

so when you say "don't have the brains"; you're speaking from experiance?
i can respect that.

When did I ever say they "don't have the brains" to be a functional member of society? Everyone is capable of that. Look man, we can debate this topic as much as you want, but when you start saying things like "when you say "don't have the brains"; you're speaking from experiance"...

Here's a little tip from someone who "don't have the brains"

It's experience not experiance, and SOLDIERS not SHOLDIERS (or however you were spelling it. I know I'm no spelling champ, but I don't belittle others

onelongsong · October 2006

ledvedderman wrote:

What a horrible statement. I could get killed by a bird taking a nose dive and stabbing me in the skull with his beak, OR I could get killed going to war in Iraq with bulletts flying at me, IED's around every corner, and people willing to blow themselves up in order to kill me. Which one do you think is more possible?

i'd go to iraq long before i'd ever go to south LA.

Hope&Anger · October 2006

onelongsong wrote:

YOU put your life in jeoprady every time you get into a car; or walk a city street. more people were killed by drunk drivers then will ever be killed in iraq.

Now who's trivializing our troops?

You honestly think they're not taking any more risks then walking a city street?

Great . . . just great.

Cree Nations · October 2006

onelongsong wrote:

hmm; city of chumps.

hhmmmm...nowhere

ledvedderman · October 2006

onelongsong wrote:

i'd go to iraq long before i'd ever go to south LA.

Than go down to your local army recruiter station, right between the payday loans place and the booze store, and sign yourself up if you are so confident that it's such a safe place. Hell, you may even get your college paid for while you are there.

surferdude · October 2006

ledvedderman wrote:

I'm not looking down on anyone man. They choose the path because they have no options. The options given in this thread were: a) study really hard and get a scholarship b) become a great athlete and get a scholarship.

Hell, I grew up in a middle class home and got decent grades and even I couldn't get scholarships or even into the school of my choice. I was good at sports but not anywhere near the level of getting a scholarship.

Way to omit the other option given - work and attend school. I still use this option and will until I retire.

Everyone has the option of working full-time and going to school part-time. For those willing to work hard this is do able for just about everyone. And the scholarships out there for non-scholastic and non-sport reasons are unbelievable. Many target those with financial issues specifically. I know because I got a couple of those.

sonicreducer · October 2006

surferdude wrote:

I think the key difference is that I show the people making the decision to join the military some respect. You seem to want to treat them as brain dead fodder for a killing machine. ?

of course each person is responsible for his decisions. i never said any of that man. all i was pointing to is that recruiters do take advantage of the lower class. one of the first things this fucker said to me was how i could go to college and buy a new car if i served. it was all about me having money and living the good life. oh, by the way,... you have to sign your life away for 4 years of active duty; wherein, you could die.

it's not like he was focusing on telling me the risks. he was focusing on getting me to sign up.

i was not targeting the people who get taken advantage of. they are responsible, and it is ultimately their fault if they have to go to war. but it is shitty situation that some people do feel is their only option.

surferdude wrote:

They have options. Respect their decision. Or do you think so little of the poor that you feel you should be in charge of making their decisions for them?

why would you say something like that? don't be an ass, please. i try to respect all people equally. on the board, it is a little easier to take a side.

like i said, my point was that the recruiters are pretty sly at what they do. they do take advantage of people to make their quotas. im sure he got a little bonus if he recruited more people. it's always about money man.

onelongsong · October 2006

ledvedderman wrote:

When did I ever say they "don't have the brains" to be a functional member of society? Everyone is capable of that. Look man, we can debate this topic as much as you want, but when you start saying things like "when you say "don't have the brains"; you're speaking from experiance"...

Here's a little tip from someone who "don't have the brains"

It's experience not experiance, and SOLDIERS not SHOLDIERS (or however you were spelling it. I know I'm no spelling champ, but I don't belittle others

i'm sorry. i misquoted by not looking back to see who actually said that. and i'm doing three things at once here so i'm not paying attention to my spelling. i'll be more careful.
but i did sweep the floors of a machine shop for 50 cents an hour at age 8 to pull myself out of poverty and i knew that hard work and doing the right thing would lead to success. i never saw myself as not having options; i only knew i had to work harder than others.

ledvedderman · October 2006

surferdude wrote:

Way to omit the other option given - work and attend school. I still use this option and will until I retire.

Everyone has the option of working full-time and going to school part-time. For those willing to work hard this is do able for just about everyone. And the scholarships out there for non-scholastic and non-sport reasons are unbelievable. Many target those with financial issues specifically. I know because I got a couple of those.

I hate to break the news to you, a lot of the jobs in poor areas aren't enough to support a family on AND go to college on. I'm not just talking about inner city kids, I'm talking kids in rural areas like where I am from. McDonalds is not anywhere to get the kind of money to live on and go to school with.

sonicreducer · October 2006

onelongsong wrote:

but i did sweep the floors of a machine shop for 50 cents an hour at age 8 to pull myself out of poverty and i knew that hard work and doing the right thing would lead to success. i never saw myself as not having options; i only knew i had to work harder than others.

but wouldn't you accept the idea that not everyone takes that initiative. you have to agree that a lot of america has become lazy and looks for the easy way out.

btw, i work and go to college. i didn't sweep floors for fifty cents an hour, but i pay all my bills. it is tough, and i saw my options. but not everybody chooses the same option.

onelongsong · October 2006

ledvedderman wrote:

Than go down to your local army recruiter station, right between the payday loans place and the booze store, and sign yourself up if you are so confident that it's such a safe place. Hell, you may even get your college paid for while you are there.

too old for that man. college ended 20 years ago for me. but it would have been a lot easier than working 3 jobs.

ledvedderman · October 2006

onelongsong wrote:

i'm sorry. i misquoted by not looking back to see who actually said that. and i'm doing three things at once here so i'm not paying attention to my spelling. i'll be more careful.
but i did sweep the floors of a machine shop for 50 cents an hour at age 8 to pull myself out of poverty and i knew that hard work and doing the right thing would lead to success. i never saw myself as not having options; i only knew i had to work harder than others.

Good for you man, honestly. I wish everyone had the mind set you do, but not everyone does. It's not that these people are lazy or anything but all they have known their whole life is poverty and when someone comes up to you and gives you the chance to be the first in your family to go to college and make something of your life, you will sign on the dotted line. I've seen it firsthand man.

to be continued after lunch....

surferdude · October 2006

ledvedderman wrote:

I hate to break the news to you, a lot of the jobs in poor areas aren't enough to support a family on AND go to college on. I'm not just talking about inner city kids, I'm talking kids in rural areas like where I am from. McDonalds is not anywhere to get the kind of money to live on and go to school with.

You're coming out of high school, why would you have a family to support?

You only get one life. If you've made life decisions where you have a family to support leaving high school then you've knowingly made decisions that will have a long term effect on your life. It's called consequences for your actions. When it comes to your education you basically get one chance at getting a big chunk of it done. Society can't really help you that much if you chose getting laid at 15 as more important than your future. I can't value your future more than you do.

Vedderlution_Baby · October 2006

The government is full of traitors. Afterall, didn't congress cut funding for the Defense and Veterans Brain Injury Center from 14 million to a fucking pathetic 7 million? Yea, support the fucking troops guys....until they come back home.

onelongsong · October 2006

sonicreducer wrote:

but wouldn't you accept the idea that not everyone takes that initiative. you have to agree that a lot of america has become lazy and looks for the easy way out.

btw, i work and go to college. i didn't sweep floors for fifty cents an hour, but i pay all my bills. it is tough, and i saw my options. but not everybody chooses the same option.

i agree whole heartedly. i've seen countless losers who enlisted and came out some of the highest paid and respected business people around. at least 4 of them were my cousins. they partied their lives away until they got out of high school and had nothing and nowhere to go. every one of them now make 6 figure incomes and are grateful they had that option.

surferdude · October 2006

ledvedderman wrote:

Good for you man, honestly. I wish everyone had the mind set you do, but not everyone does. It's not that these people are lazy or anything but all they have known their whole life is poverty and when someone comes up to you and gives you the chance to be the first in your family to go to college and make something of your life, you will sign on the dotted line. I've seen it firsthand man.

to be continued after lunch....

If you can't put off gratification you are pretty much doomed to being unsuccessful in life. Studies I've read say the two biggest characteristics of successful people are persistance and delay of gratification. Neither of these have anything to do with money.

Without persistance the fisrt time you fail you become a failure. Without delayed gratification you'll never be able to put in long term hard work to achieve anything or save money.

John Kerry Rips The Troops

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