Humanitarian Aid - the myths!

beemster wrote:

It's about humanitarian aid, and then it turns into how the US does not give more, and for the record I am totally against foreign aid, because it never helps the people its intended to help.

I think it was about - you'd have to ask Helen, really - about how some Americans on this board often boast about how much they give, which implies that others don't give or give less, which is ridiculous. Because be honest why would anyone say 'look at how much money I give' when he knows the other person give the same amount or more. It's a childish game of 'my country is better than yours.' Helen wanted to set the facts straight, I think, by posting stats, including stats that present stats with percentages which these Americans often seem to forget.

beemster wrote:

And I'm sure there are many people from other countries that go around boasting about how much their countries do.

I'm sure you're right. But that's not the point, the point is it happens here, and it's annoying when these people use this as some sort of argument to show how good the US is compared to other countries.

Personally, here in Canada, I wish we would give far less and spend that money right at home, because like I said I doubt that a lot of that humanitarian aid is really helping the people its intended to help.

Tell that to the people who were hit by the Tsunami.

Heineken Helen wrote:

I see your point BUT the equality of wealth is better in other countries in the developed world. So is it a BAD thing that the US gives less per capita (I think I posted the private donations link somewhere where the US is still down the list) as more richer people should be giving higher donations... along with the little that the poorer people are giving... OR does it mean the US is more generous... (as millionaires aren't millionaires because of their generosity) as it's the poor people giving the money? Sorry, I hope that makes sense.

Yes Japan HAS been doing alot and I have to admit I didn't know that til I started checking the facts... I suppose there just aren't many Japanese here boasting about how much they're giving.

Edit: I had posted the link on another thread. Here it is:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930884.html

I couldn't open the link for some reason and I am not sure what you are saying.

I know you are listening to some Americans bragging that we give the most and we are the best blah blah blah.

I really don't know all of the facts to simply say the US gives the most or not. I am pretty sure US humanitarian aid has gone down since Bush became President though.

I just think it’s more complicated. There are government, private and corporate donations and some donations are made anonymous. Many countries are making all kinds of donations. Some of the donations may be money but others are grants, food, water, clothing, supplies, equipment and labor. There are millions of charities to give to and there is the UN as well.

I don't buy into the per capita method because there are too many flaws. I don't think an entire population of a country should be included because not all people are in the positions to make donations. And that applies to all countries because every country has its poor but we do have a lot here. If you take the entire population of Ireland and multiply it by 9 that is about how many Americans are living in poverty. Donations shouldn't be made based on how many people. You can have two families and they both make a million dollars per year. One is a family of 6 and the other is a family of 2. They both give $100,000 to a charity. They both gave the same amount but the family of 2 gave more per capita. However, the family of 6 actually would have more expenses to take care of for themselves than the family of 2. There are other factors like the different economies and problems each country has. And again I don't think you can compare a country with 300 millions with a country with 5 million. It is like comparing apples to oranges.

The US is not that rich. Yes we have some millionaires and billionaires but the poor Americans actually out number them. We have millions of people unemployed and without health insurance. The US has a huge deficit and everyday the US borrows billions of dollars from China. We import way more than we export. So I am not sure if we actually are in the position to give more. Maybe if we stopped wasting money on bombs we could actually do some good.

jlew24asu wrote:

so that would mean the US would need to have 150 million millionaires and billionaires for your statement to be false.

Huh, read what said again.

jlew24asu wrote:

I did. you said that poor people outnumber millionaires and billionaires.

really? how shocking

Yes, it is shocking that we have so many poor people living the US. As for the unemployment, 4.5% may seem like a small number to you but tell that to the 14 million Americans without a job. You want to compare the US with Europe? Well at least most Europeans have free health care and free college education.

You said we are rich country. Would a rich country have more poor people than millionaires and billionaires? Would a rich country have 14 million people without jobs and millions more without health care? Would a rich country have 37 million people living in poverty? Would a rich country have an 8.6 trillion dollar deficit? Would a rich country have to borrow billions of dollars everyday just to get by?

Try living in California and having enough money left over to be generous with. With such a high cost of living, I barely had enough money left over last month to make my BMW payment and buy a new high definition tv.

CorporateWhore wrote:

By your comments, you do not understand finance.

Just because the U.S. borrows money does not mean it is not rich. Wealthy corporations borrow a lot of money too, but that's because they have the credit to do so. The U.S. has a perfect credit score and you will certainly get your money back if you invest in our government. Borrowing is a part of how an entity manages its capital. If wealthy companies didn't borrow money, they wouldn't be as successful as they are!

In fact, I'd say a lot of the things you said indicate that finance is not your specialty, but that's okay. 4.5% unemployment is a gold standard. I will admit that we are rapidly approaching a time when people who aren't college educated won't have very good jobs, but that is because our government has failed to retain corporations within the U.S. I am a big supporter of tarrifs on goods coming from foreign countries that don't have the same workplace, wage, and environmental laws that we have. China and Mexico for example. It is unfair that foreign workers are given higher priority than the American worker.

Nonetheless, I would say our economy is booming. The gap between rich and poor is narrowing and income is rising. We are indeed a rich country. Here is a good indicator:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

We're third and we have 100s of millions more people than the countries on par with us. That's more liability that there'll be low-income earning immigrants from the third world. Yet we're still awesome! Cool eh?

Lol, you obviously know nothing about me or what I do for a living but I actually do work with financing more than you will ever know.

We are talking borrowing billions of dollars every single day and not just a loan here and there and a couple of credit cards. I would never let my company run up a huge deficit and just pay the interest. Listen, wealthy corporations don't spend way more than they bring in, well unless they want to file for chapter 11. That is exactly what our country does, we import way more than we export and we borrow and spend. It's actually very dangerous. What if China tells us one day they don't want to lend us any more money and by the way pay up?

I'm not saying we are a poor country but I'm just saying we are not as rich as some people may believe.

CorporateWhore wrote:

While I disagree with deficit spending, I am not worried about the country's ability to pay back our loans. It's impossible for us to default b/c the U.S. doesn't go bankrupt.

You're right, real companies don't borrow more than they spend. Comparisons between governments and companies can be deceiving.

I agree that it's stupid for us to be importing more than we export. American workers deserve those jobs - not foreigners. But, China can't do shit if we say they want us to pay up. What are they going to do? Invade us?

We are not as rich as some people may believe? We have the third highest PPP per capita. That's awesome! Plus we have low unemployment!

Hate what you want about our government, but our economy is easy to love.

No it's just a disagreement in our expectations of a country and of a government. I don't want some or even most Americans to benefit from the economy I want ALL Americans to benefit from the economy. I don't want anyone left behind. So while it may be acceptable to you, I just expect more.

GDP isn't exactly a gauge of standard of living or even just spending power of your average american. Keep in mind that it is merely an average that ignores factors such as distribution of wealth, cost of housing, as well as other benefits dolled out by socialist governments such as health care.

Over the years, the distribution of wealth has been shiting to fewer and fewer people. Fewer and fewer people are able to afford homes. People are working more hours to maintain the same standard of living. Unemployment may be low, but a big chunk of those who are "employed" are living way below the poverty level. And if this was Canada, they'd at least have their medical care, which they are probably not getting here in the states.

CorporateWhore wrote:

I used PPP which takes into account inflation.

That just gives you a more accurate GDP, but the fact is you still used GDP, which doesn't even take into account housing costs. And, again, it is merely an overall average that doesn't take into account wealth distribution.