The fact remains is that the United States gives the most hard dollars to foreign aid, by far. You cannot feed people with "percent GDP". You feed them with food bought with money or harvested with time. The US leads the world in these donations. Should we be celebrated as wonderfully charitable people? Not necessarily, no.
I think Helen knows this, the point is Americans are boasting about how much they give, and how they give more than any other country in the world, well that's just stupid, imo. It's demographics, you didn't do anything spectacular you just happen to be the third most populated country in the world. Congratulations on being born there.
I think Helen knows this, the point is Americans are boasting about how much they give, and how they give more than any other country in the world, well that's just stupid, imo. It's demographics, you didn't do anything spectacular you just happen to be the third most populated country in the world. Congratulations on being born there.
Norway 0.93
Sweden 0.92
Luxembourg 0.87
Netherlands 0.82
Denmark 0.81
Belgium 0.53
Austria 0.52
UK 0.48
Finland 0.47
France 0.47
Switzerland 0.44
Ireland 0.41
Germany 0.35
Canada 0.34
Italy 0.29
Spain 0.29
Japan 0.28
New Zealand 0.27
Australia 0.25
Greece 0.24
USA 0.22
Portugal 0.21
Hmmmmmmmm, has anybody asked themselves why there are no Middle Eastern countries on this list? I mean, many of them are drowning in oil. I think the king of Saudi Arabia recently ordered the most expensive personal yacht ever built - over $300 million by some estimates and over 500 ft long.
I'm not saying that is grounds to invade Iraq or anything - but I just hate it when people talking about pressuring countries over there to be more "progressive" and oponents shout back how we shouldn't judge them and if their governments oppress their people - who are we to say they shouldn't. Like we need to respect their culture or something if we disagree.
You have UAE, Saudi Arabia, Quater, Kuwait all these countries as rich as any Western nation - yet they don't help any of their neighbors and leave that to the West sort out. That's just classy huh?
Hmmmmmmmm, has anybody asked themselves why there are no Middle Eastern countries on this list? I mean, many of them are drowning in oil. I think the king of Saudi Arabia recently ordered the most expensive personal yacht ever built - over $300 million by some estimates and over 500 ft long.
I'm not saying that is grounds to invade Iraq or anything - but I just hate it when people talking about pressuring countries over there to be more "progressive" and oponents shout back how we shouldn't judge them and if their governments oppress their people - who are we to say they shouldn't. Like we need to respect their culture or something if we disagree.
You have UAE, Saudi Arabia, Quater, Kuwait all these countries as rich as any Western nation - yet they don't help any of their neighbors and leave that to the West sort out. That's just classy huh?
I think Helen knows this, the point is Americans are boasting about how much they give, and how they give more than any other country in the world, well that's just stupid, imo. It's demographics, you didn't do anything spectacular you just happen to be the third most populated country in the world. Congratulations on being born there.
It isn't "stupid". It's true. We do give more than any other country in the world, in total dollars. Furthermore, many people in the United States did do something spectacular about it -- creating the value upon which those charitable dollars are based via their labors.
Certainly someone who runs around boasting about America's charitable giving is probably someone who has ulterior motives, but someone who runs around criticizing America's charitable giving is also highly questionable. Both behaviors are childish.
Charity is the act of giving based on generosity. And generosity, in any amount, should be commended. It is not something to be held on a relative scale and derided.
America, like all nations, is full of generous people. The fact that we handle more of our charitable giving privately than publicly is simply consistent with our political heritage. And the fact that we are sometimes interested in tying our charity or assessments of merit is simply consistent with our cultural heritage.
If I started a thread here telling people that I was sick of hearing that Irish people were hard working and then held up the fact that their per-capita GDP is less than ours (by a whopping $1k, no less), I'd hope people would strongly reject my claims. The sad fact of the matter is that any chance to criticize the United States here in the guise of "eye opening" information is welcomed.
Hmmmmmmmm, has anybody asked themselves why there are no Middle Eastern countries on this list? I mean, many of them are drowning in oil. I think the king of Saudi Arabia recently ordered the most expensive personal yacht ever built - over $300 million by some estimates and over 500 ft long.
I'm not saying that is grounds to invade Iraq or anything - but I just hate it when people talking about pressuring countries over there to be more "progressive" and oponents shout back how we shouldn't judge them and if their governments oppress their people - who are we to say they shouldn't. Like we need to respect their culture or something if we disagree.
You have UAE, Saudi Arabia, Quater, Kuwait all these countries as rich as any Western nation - yet they don't help any of their neighbors and leave that to the West sort out. That's just classy huh?
If you'd read his link then you'd have seen that the stats were compiled by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development which is :-
The OECD groups 30 member countries sharing a commitment to democratic government and the market economy. With active relationships with some 70 other countries and economies, NGOs and civil society, it has a global reach. Best known for its publications and its statistics, its work covers economic and social issues from macroeconomics, to trade, education, development and science and innovation.
OECD MEMBER COUNTRIES
Twenty countries originally signed the Convention on the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development on 14 December 1960. Since then a further ten countries have become members of the Organisation. The Member countries of the Organisation and the dates on which they deposited their instruments of ratification are:
AUSTRALIA: 7 June 1971
AUSTRIA: 29 September 1961
BELGIUM: 13 September 1961
CANADA: 10 April 1961
CZECH REPUBLIC: 21 December 1995
DENMARK: 30 May 1961
FINLAND: 28 January 1969
FRANCE: 7 August 1961
GERMANY: 27 September 1961
GREECE: 27 September 1961
HUNGARY: 7 May 1996
ICELAND: 5 June 1961
IRELAND: 17 August 1961
ITALY: 29 March 1962
JAPAN: 28 April 1964
KOREA: 12 December 1996
LUXEMBOURG: 7 December 1961
MEXICO: 18 May 1994
NETHERLANDS: 13 November 1961
NEW ZEALAND: 29 May 1973
NORWAY: 4 July 1961
POLAND: 22 November 1996
PORTUGAL: 4 August 1961
SLOVAK REPUBLIC: 14 December 2000
SPAIN: 3 August 1961
SWEDEN: 28 September 1961
SWITZERLAND: 28 September 1961
TURKEY: 2 August 1961
UNITED KINGDOM: 2 May 1961
UNITED STATES: 12 April 1961
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
We do give more than any other country in the world, in total dollars. Furthermore, many people in the United States did do something spectacular about it -- creating the value upon which those charitable dollars are based via their labors.
I know you give more in total dollars but that's just because you have a bigger population. Everyone (most western countries) give money, so what's the point in acting all high and mighty about it?
They're boasting about something that everyone does. And ok, maybe they did do something spectecular, but again, all those countries did.
And the fact remains, if you look at percentages, the US is at the bottom of the list (which is still the top though).
If you'd read his link then you'd have seen that the stats were compiled by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development which is :-
The OECD groups 30 member countries sharing a commitment to democratic government and the market economy. With active relationships with some 70 other countries and economies, NGOs and civil society, it has a global reach. Best known for its publications and its statistics, its work covers economic and social issues from macroeconomics, to trade, education, development and science and innovation.
OECD MEMBER COUNTRIES
Twenty countries originally signed the Convention on the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development on 14 December 1960. Since then a further ten countries have become members of the Organisation. The Member countries of the Organisation and the dates on which they deposited their instruments of ratification are:
AUSTRALIA: 7 June 1971
AUSTRIA: 29 September 1961
BELGIUM: 13 September 1961
CANADA: 10 April 1961
CZECH REPUBLIC: 21 December 1995
DENMARK: 30 May 1961
FINLAND: 28 January 1969
FRANCE: 7 August 1961
GERMANY: 27 September 1961
GREECE: 27 September 1961
HUNGARY: 7 May 1996
ICELAND: 5 June 1961
IRELAND: 17 August 1961
ITALY: 29 March 1962
JAPAN: 28 April 1964
KOREA: 12 December 1996
LUXEMBOURG: 7 December 1961
MEXICO: 18 May 1994
NETHERLANDS: 13 November 1961
NEW ZEALAND: 29 May 1973
NORWAY: 4 July 1961
POLAND: 22 November 1996
PORTUGAL: 4 August 1961
SLOVAK REPUBLIC: 14 December 2000
SPAIN: 3 August 1961
SWEDEN: 28 September 1961
SWITZERLAND: 28 September 1961
TURKEY: 2 August 1961
UNITED KINGDOM: 2 May 1961
UNITED STATES: 12 April 1961
Ah, well I guess Middle Eastern nations wouldn't want to be involved anyways
because this group has a shared commitment to democratic government and the market economy. Not to mention their work in economic and social issues like education, development and science and innovation probably wouldn't sit well with the government.
No. Two different things can be stupid and true. But stupid and true and mutually exclusive.
I know you give more in total dollars but that's just because you have a bigger population. Everyone (most western countries) give money, so what's the point in acting all high and mighty about it?
It's not as simple as having a "bigger population". Accounting for private donations, the United States appears much higher on these lists. Furthermore, the entire idea of chastizing the US here is ridiculous. Why aren't people criticizing Italy or New Zealand (#19/#21)?
Should I be able to criticize HH because, well, Ireland is not #1 on the per-capita list? Or how about criticize everyone here since Western foreign aid pales in comparison to nations like Saudi Arabia who donate close to 5% of their GDP to foreign aid??? It's ridiculous to chastize generosity -- there's no justifiable way to do so.
They're boasting about something that everyone does. And ok, maybe they did do something spectecular, but again, all those countries did.
And the fact remains, if you look at percentages, the US is at the bottom of the list.
Yes, the US is at the bottom of the GDP list for government aid. I fail to see what's wrong with this, particularly considering the list is of 23 nations generating positive aid (more going out than in). Should I be criticizing Lesotho, since they're on the bottom of the total list??? Should I demand that they raise their GDP so they can give more total foreign aid??? It's absolutely preposterous and it completely mirrors the holier than thou attitude of the people this thread it pretending to reject.
I don't think i've ever seen you type more than one sentence. Mind you, if they are as vacuous in substance as your normal 1 sentence posts... then there's no point i suppose. :(
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
I don't think i've ever seen you type more than one sentence. Mind you, if they are as vacuous in substance as your normal 1 sentence posts... then there's no point i suppose. :(
I dont think ive ever seen you type anything worth reading.
No. Two different things can be stupid and true. But stupid and true and mutually exclusive.
I disagree
It's not as simple as having a "bigger population". Accounting for private donations, the United States appears much higher on these lists. Furthermore,
Source?
the entire idea of chastizing the US here is ridiculous. Why aren't people criticizing Italy or New Zealand (#19/#21)?
I agree but it's the Americans on the board who started with the 'look how much money we give'.
Yes, the US is at the bottom of the GDP list for government aid. I fail to see what's wrong with this,
Nothing wrong with it, the US gives great amounts but it's a bit foolish, imo, to boast about how much money you give considering these facts.
So you believe a statement can be both true and stupid? Ok.
Source?
Read Carol Adelman's research.
I agree but it's the Americans on the board who started with the 'look how much money we give'.
Ok. If that's true, why does that allow you to take on the same ridiculous holier than thou attitude and, more importantly, why would you want to?
Nothing wrong with it, the US gives great amounts but it's a bit foolish, imo, to boast about how much money you give considering these facts.
It depends on the context. If that "boasting" is simply rejecting the idea that Americans don't give foreign aid, then it's not very foolish. If people are trumpeting America's efforts in an unsolicited fashion, it's probably very foolish. Regardless, that doesn't change the incredible foolishness of a thread dedicated to guilt-tripping Americans.
Now this is not me bashing the US or anything... any aid is good and welcome...
I did see that. What I also saw was this, first:
"By the way, congrats to Luxumbourg, Norway, Netherlands and Denmark... THEY can be proud."
Sorry kids, but you can't have it both ways. I'm very proud of the private donations I've made to both foreign and domestic interests. I'm also very proud of some of the expropriated money of mine the government has used in foreign interests. My pride has nothing to do with what another nation is doing.
I dont think ive ever seen you type anything worth reading.
yet not only did you read my post you actually responded to it and you did it with the one sentence.
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
So you believe a statement can be both true and stupid? Ok.
I believe something can be stupid and true, yes. Like my little nephew can burp all his favorite songs, it's true but it's stupid.
Read Carol Adelman's research.
I'll take your word. Did she do research on private donations in those European countries as well?
[quoe]Ok. If that's true, why does that allow you to take on the same ridiculous holier than thou attitude and, more importantly, why would you want to?[/quote]
Where did I take on the holier than thou attitude?
It depends on the context. If that "boasting" is simply rejecting the idea that Americans don't give foreign aid, then it's not very foolish.
Here is a quiz some of you should take. I am sick of hearing 'the US give more money by FAR in aid to other countries'. Ok this is wrong as the US actually comes in second on that*.
That's not taking into account that 3/4 of that aid is bi-lateral, meaning that it must be spent on American goods and services :eek:
But how are small countries like Ireland going to compare to that? We only have a population of 4m unlike what? 301m in the US. Well see there's a thing called 'per capita' which is where the money is broken down to see how much is actually given per head... and guess what? The US comes in 20th on this list
Now this is not me bashing the US or anything... any aid is good and welcome... but I just want to quash those myths that the US gives more aid 'BY FAR' than any other country... cos it doesn't on any of those lists.
By the way, congrats to Luxumbourg, Norway, Netherlands and Denmark... THEY can be proud.
I think you shouldn't measure something like giving humanitarian aid to other countries based on the giving country's per capita. For instance, there are 37 million Americans currently living in poverty, which is about 13% of the US population and is more than the total populations of Luxembourg, Norway, Netherlands and Denmark combined. How can we include those living in poverty in the equation (per capita) when they themselves need aid? Then the poverty affects the economy, which affects the GDP. Each country is not the same and therefore shouldn't be measured the same as you can't compare a country with a population of 300 million with a country with 2 or even 20 million people. Big country just means bigger problems. Denmark needs to create jobs and employ about 5 million people but the US needs to create jobs and employ about 300 million people, well less the children of course. There are over 1.3 billion people living in China but China is no where to be found on the lists even though just about everything is made in China...bigger country so even bigger problems.
The US is not as rich as led to believe. But the US could do a lot more considering over $300 billion dollars have been spent on the Iraq war. That money could have gone to something better.
"...believe in lies...to get by...it's divine...whoa...oh, you know what its like..."
EVERYBODY donated money to katrina victims... there were people collecting all over the place. Just like the tsunami. How teh fuck am I supposed to remember what I gave... it was ages ago. But I DID give and it was a lot at the time. Not that it's any of your business but I have a standing order to a charity every month - that's MY priority. What's yours? What percentage do you give and to what charity?
Wow, even Sri Lanka were sending aid to Katrina victims... so don't gimme that 'how come we never got aid' bullshit...
Lol, sounds familiar?
"...believe in lies...to get by...it's divine...whoa...oh, you know what its like..."
Awesome! Now, do you also recognize that millions of people in the United States share that priority?.
Of course I do... that's not the point of this thread. I KNOW there are plenty of wonderful americans and my intention was NOT to generalise against Americans here... my intention was for people to stop blowing their own trumpet when it takes them three HOURS to come up with ONE site to back their claims... they obviously hear something about how America is the best at something and go on and on and on about it... and it just pisses me off cos it's WRONG and this thread is simply to point THAT out.
I didn't give you that bullshit. I simply challenged your ridiculous generalization of the Katrina situation, ignoring the millions of incredibly generous people here who donated their time, money and efforts.
I haven't ignored it... but it's YOU who have ignored the help and sympathy from other countries when Katrina happened... do they just not tell ya about it or something? WE sent money... WE sent food rations, tents, sleeping bags, soldiers, doctors, etc... and every other country did the same. It was the person who said 'charity begins at home' I directed that to. I'm just wondering, which will be rebuilt first, Iraq or New Orleans?
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
When someone suggests that the United States is "uncharitable" or does not deserve credit for the charitable works it does throughout this world, they've made things personal
Tell me... where did I say that??????? This is my original quote.
Now this is not me bashing the US or anything... any aid is good and welcome... but I just want to quash those myths that the US gives more aid 'BY FAR' than any other country... cos it doesn't on any of those lists.
By the way, congrats to Luxumbourg, Norway, Netherlands and Denmark... THEY can be proud.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I'm curious, would those of you who talk about "percent GDP" on this issue do the same with issues such as the national debt? For instance, the United State's national debt, as a percentage of GDP, is lower than most European nations. Also, what about on Education spending, where the US is tenth, ahead of many European nations? How come "percent GDP" never comes up in those discussions? What about the poverty issue? How come "per-capita GDP" doesn't come up there, where the US ranks third?
Because that's not what THIS THREAD is about? You want to talk about that? Start another thread! but I'd appreciate you to stay on topic on THIS one.
Furthermore, I don't see any mention at all of private donations in these figures. The United States citizenry donates nearly three times privately overseas than they do publicly through government institutions. Does this simply not count?
Yes, it does... I've amended that in my posts above... still not the highest before you start.
The fact remains is that the United States gives the most hard dollars to foreign aid, by far. You cannot feed people with "percent GDP". You feed them with food bought with money or harvested with time. The US leads the world in these donations. Should we be celebrated as wonderfully charitable people? Not necessarily, no. Should we be vilified for not "giving enough"? Of course not. Those who receive this aid should simply be thankful. In most cases, they've done nothing to earn it. Those who simply observe this aid are in no position to criticize -- they own their own behavior, not the behavior of others.
You are of course right. I'm not villifying anybody here... I'm simply stating the FACTS! Do you have a problem with that?
There is nothing more petty and disgusting than the child who will quibble with the giver over his charity. If you do not like it, do not accept it. If you do not think it's enough, supplement it. But do not pretend it is owed to you -- you've done nothing to earn it.
When did I ever say that? When? FACTS dear FFG... you seem to have a problem with them.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Hmmmmmmmm, has anybody asked themselves why there are no Middle Eastern countries on this list? I mean, many of them are drowning in oil. I think the king of Saudi Arabia recently ordered the most expensive personal yacht ever built - over $300 million by some estimates and over 500 ft long.
I'm not saying that is grounds to invade Iraq or anything - but I just hate it when people talking about pressuring countries over there to be more "progressive" and oponents shout back how we shouldn't judge them and if their governments oppress their people - who are we to say they shouldn't. Like we need to respect their culture or something if we disagree.
You have UAE, Saudi Arabia, Quater, Kuwait all these countries as rich as any Western nation - yet they don't help any of their neighbors and leave that to the West sort out. That's just classy huh?
You have a very good point. It stinks!
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
No. Two different things can be stupid and true. But stupid and true and mutually exclusive.
It's not as simple as having a "bigger population". Accounting for private donations, the United States appears much higher on these lists. Furthermore, the entire idea of chastizing the US here is ridiculous. Why aren't people criticizing Italy or New Zealand (#19/#21)?
Should I be able to criticize HH because, well, Ireland is not #1 on the per-capita list? Or how about criticize everyone here since Western foreign aid pales in comparison to nations like Saudi Arabia who donate close to 5% of their GDP to foreign aid??? It's ridiculous to chastize generosity -- there's no justifiable way to do so.
Yes, the US is at the bottom of the GDP list for government aid. I fail to see what's wrong with this, particularly considering the list is of 23 nations generating positive aid (more going out than in). Should I be criticizing Lesotho, since they're on the bottom of the total list??? Should I demand that they raise their GDP so they can give more total foreign aid??? It's absolutely preposterous and it completely mirrors the holier than thou attitude of the people this thread it pretending to reject.
You're again missing the point and misquoting me... I never criticised ANYONE and certainly not the US... ok, I take it back, the people I AM criticising are those making false claims... I simply thought a thread was needed to shed light on the truth as quite a few people don't seem to understand. Here's an interesting article.
You can insult Ireland as much as you want, but why would you want to? You seem to think I'd get as offended as you seem to be! But you fail to realise I'd KNOW it's only because you're pissed off with me for some reason that you've actually MADE up.
And something CAN be stupid and true... what about that guy who cut his balls off last year during the six nations cos Wales lost? Stupid!!!! Yet TRUE! :cool:
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
"By the way, congrats to Luxumbourg, Norway, Netherlands and Denmark... THEY can be proud."
Sorry kids, but you can't have it both ways. I'm very proud of the private donations I've made to both foreign and domestic interests. I'm also very proud of some of the expropriated money of mine the government has used in foreign interests. My pride has nothing to do with what another nation is doing.
It's just the fact that I don't think I've EVER seen any Norwegians, Danish, Dutch or Luxumbourgers post here about how they donated more than anyone in the world FACT... they don't go on and on and on and on about it. Anytime there's a thread about charity somebody always brings this up about the US and it's simply my job as an observer to point out that they're wrong.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
I think you shouldn't measure something like giving humanitarian aid to other countries based on the giving country's per capita. For instance, there are 37 million Americans currently living in poverty, which is about 13% of the US population and is more than the total populations of Luxembourg, Norway, Netherlands and Denmark combined. How can we include those living in poverty in the equation (per capita) when they themselves need aid? Then the poverty affects the economy, which affects the GDP. Each country is not the same and therefore shouldn't be measured the same as you can't compare a country with a population of 300 million with a country with 2 or even 20 million people. Big country just means bigger problems. Denmark needs to create jobs and employ about 5 million people but the US needs to create jobs and employ about 300 million people, well less the children of course. There are over 1.3 billion people living in China but China is no where to be found on the lists even though just about everything is made in China...bigger country so even bigger problems.
The US is not as rich as led to believe. But the US could do a lot more considering over $300 billion dollars have been spent on the Iraq war. That money could have gone to something better.
Finally somebody disagreeing using something intelligent to say and giving reasons instead of just 'you're wrong' and jumping down my throat for stating the simple facts.
The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Comments
I think Helen knows this, the point is Americans are boasting about how much they give, and how they give more than any other country in the world, well that's just stupid, imo. It's demographics, you didn't do anything spectacular you just happen to be the third most populated country in the world. Congratulations on being born there.
naděje umírá poslední
Yea but everybody wants to be us.
naděje umírá poslední
Hmmmmmmmm, has anybody asked themselves why there are no Middle Eastern countries on this list? I mean, many of them are drowning in oil. I think the king of Saudi Arabia recently ordered the most expensive personal yacht ever built - over $300 million by some estimates and over 500 ft long.
I'm not saying that is grounds to invade Iraq or anything - but I just hate it when people talking about pressuring countries over there to be more "progressive" and oponents shout back how we shouldn't judge them and if their governments oppress their people - who are we to say they shouldn't. Like we need to respect their culture or something if we disagree.
You have UAE, Saudi Arabia, Quater, Kuwait all these countries as rich as any Western nation - yet they don't help any of their neighbors and leave that to the West sort out. That's just classy huh?
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Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Excellent point
It isn't "stupid". It's true. We do give more than any other country in the world, in total dollars. Furthermore, many people in the United States did do something spectacular about it -- creating the value upon which those charitable dollars are based via their labors.
Certainly someone who runs around boasting about America's charitable giving is probably someone who has ulterior motives, but someone who runs around criticizing America's charitable giving is also highly questionable. Both behaviors are childish.
Charity is the act of giving based on generosity. And generosity, in any amount, should be commended. It is not something to be held on a relative scale and derided.
America, like all nations, is full of generous people. The fact that we handle more of our charitable giving privately than publicly is simply consistent with our political heritage. And the fact that we are sometimes interested in tying our charity or assessments of merit is simply consistent with our cultural heritage.
If I started a thread here telling people that I was sick of hearing that Irish people were hard working and then held up the fact that their per-capita GDP is less than ours (by a whopping $1k, no less), I'd hope people would strongly reject my claims. The sad fact of the matter is that any chance to criticize the United States here in the guise of "eye opening" information is welcomed.
If you'd read his link then you'd have seen that the stats were compiled by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development which is :-
The OECD groups 30 member countries sharing a commitment to democratic government and the market economy. With active relationships with some 70 other countries and economies, NGOs and civil society, it has a global reach. Best known for its publications and its statistics, its work covers economic and social issues from macroeconomics, to trade, education, development and science and innovation.
OECD MEMBER COUNTRIES
Twenty countries originally signed the Convention on the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development on 14 December 1960. Since then a further ten countries have become members of the Organisation. The Member countries of the Organisation and the dates on which they deposited their instruments of ratification are:
AUSTRALIA: 7 June 1971
AUSTRIA: 29 September 1961
BELGIUM: 13 September 1961
CANADA: 10 April 1961
CZECH REPUBLIC: 21 December 1995
DENMARK: 30 May 1961
FINLAND: 28 January 1969
FRANCE: 7 August 1961
GERMANY: 27 September 1961
GREECE: 27 September 1961
HUNGARY: 7 May 1996
ICELAND: 5 June 1961
IRELAND: 17 August 1961
ITALY: 29 March 1962
JAPAN: 28 April 1964
KOREA: 12 December 1996
LUXEMBOURG: 7 December 1961
MEXICO: 18 May 1994
NETHERLANDS: 13 November 1961
NEW ZEALAND: 29 May 1973
NORWAY: 4 July 1961
POLAND: 22 November 1996
PORTUGAL: 4 August 1961
SLOVAK REPUBLIC: 14 December 2000
SPAIN: 3 August 1961
SWEDEN: 28 September 1961
SWITZERLAND: 28 September 1961
TURKEY: 2 August 1961
UNITED KINGDOM: 2 May 1961
UNITED STATES: 12 April 1961
Something can be stupid and true, you know.
I know you give more in total dollars but that's just because you have a bigger population. Everyone (most western countries) give money, so what's the point in acting all high and mighty about it?
They're boasting about something that everyone does. And ok, maybe they did do something spectecular, but again, all those countries did.
And the fact remains, if you look at percentages, the US is at the bottom of the list (which is still the top though).
naděje umírá poslední
Ah, well I guess Middle Eastern nations wouldn't want to be involved anyways
because this group has a shared commitment to democratic government and the market economy. Not to mention their work in economic and social issues like education, development and science and innovation probably wouldn't sit well with the government.
No. Two different things can be stupid and true. But stupid and true and mutually exclusive.
It's not as simple as having a "bigger population". Accounting for private donations, the United States appears much higher on these lists. Furthermore, the entire idea of chastizing the US here is ridiculous. Why aren't people criticizing Italy or New Zealand (#19/#21)?
Should I be able to criticize HH because, well, Ireland is not #1 on the per-capita list? Or how about criticize everyone here since Western foreign aid pales in comparison to nations like Saudi Arabia who donate close to 5% of their GDP to foreign aid??? It's ridiculous to chastize generosity -- there's no justifiable way to do so.
Yes, the US is at the bottom of the GDP list for government aid. I fail to see what's wrong with this, particularly considering the list is of 23 nations generating positive aid (more going out than in). Should I be criticizing Lesotho, since they're on the bottom of the total list??? Should I demand that they raise their GDP so they can give more total foreign aid??? It's absolutely preposterous and it completely mirrors the holier than thou attitude of the people this thread it pretending to reject.
I don't think i've ever seen you type more than one sentence. Mind you, if they are as vacuous in substance as your normal 1 sentence posts... then there's no point i suppose. :(
I dont think ive ever seen you type anything worth reading.
I disagree
Source?
I agree but it's the Americans on the board who started with the 'look how much money we give'.
Nothing wrong with it, the US gives great amounts but it's a bit foolish, imo, to boast about how much money you give considering these facts.
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Now this is not me bashing the US or anything... any aid is good and welcome...
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So you believe a statement can be both true and stupid? Ok.
Read Carol Adelman's research.
Ok. If that's true, why does that allow you to take on the same ridiculous holier than thou attitude and, more importantly, why would you want to?
It depends on the context. If that "boasting" is simply rejecting the idea that Americans don't give foreign aid, then it's not very foolish. If people are trumpeting America's efforts in an unsolicited fashion, it's probably very foolish. Regardless, that doesn't change the incredible foolishness of a thread dedicated to guilt-tripping Americans.
I did see that. What I also saw was this, first:
"By the way, congrats to Luxumbourg, Norway, Netherlands and Denmark... THEY can be proud."
Sorry kids, but you can't have it both ways. I'm very proud of the private donations I've made to both foreign and domestic interests. I'm also very proud of some of the expropriated money of mine the government has used in foreign interests. My pride has nothing to do with what another nation is doing.
yet not only did you read my post you actually responded to it
I believe something can be stupid and true, yes. Like my little nephew can burp all his favorite songs, it's true but it's stupid.
I'll take your word. Did she do research on private donations in those European countries as well?
[quoe]Ok. If that's true, why does that allow you to take on the same ridiculous holier than thou attitude and, more importantly, why would you want to?[/quote]
Where did I take on the holier than thou attitude?
I agree. But that was not the case.
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That's not stupid. That's talent.
"What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."
Camden 5-28-06
Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
I knew I should have gone with my cat example.
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I think you shouldn't measure something like giving humanitarian aid to other countries based on the giving country's per capita. For instance, there are 37 million Americans currently living in poverty, which is about 13% of the US population and is more than the total populations of Luxembourg, Norway, Netherlands and Denmark combined. How can we include those living in poverty in the equation (per capita) when they themselves need aid? Then the poverty affects the economy, which affects the GDP. Each country is not the same and therefore shouldn't be measured the same as you can't compare a country with a population of 300 million with a country with 2 or even 20 million people. Big country just means bigger problems. Denmark needs to create jobs and employ about 5 million people but the US needs to create jobs and employ about 300 million people, well less the children of course. There are over 1.3 billion people living in China but China is no where to be found on the lists even though just about everything is made in China...bigger country so even bigger problems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States
The US is not as rich as led to believe. But the US could do a lot more considering over $300 billion dollars have been spent on the Iraq war. That money could have gone to something better.
Lol, sounds familiar?
Of course I do... that's not the point of this thread. I KNOW there are plenty of wonderful americans and my intention was NOT to generalise against Americans here... my intention was for people to stop blowing their own trumpet when it takes them three HOURS to come up with ONE site to back their claims... they obviously hear something about how America is the best at something and go on and on and on about it... and it just pisses me off cos it's WRONG and this thread is simply to point THAT out.
So you actually only give 10% to charities? Not 50%! The government is NOT a charity. It's not the charity's fault that 40% was 'stolen'
I haven't ignored it... but it's YOU who have ignored the help and sympathy from other countries when Katrina happened... do they just not tell ya about it or something? WE sent money... WE sent food rations, tents, sleeping bags, soldiers, doctors, etc... and every other country did the same. It was the person who said 'charity begins at home' I directed that to. I'm just wondering, which will be rebuilt first, Iraq or New Orleans?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Tell me... where did I say that??????? This is my original quote.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Because that's not what THIS THREAD is about? You want to talk about that? Start another thread! but I'd appreciate you to stay on topic on THIS one.
Yes, it does... I've amended that in my posts above... still not the highest before you start.
You are of course right. I'm not villifying anybody here... I'm simply stating the FACTS! Do you have a problem with that?
When did I ever say that? When? FACTS dear FFG... you seem to have a problem with them.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2676
You can insult Ireland as much as you want, but why would you want to? You seem to think I'd get as offended as you seem to be! But you fail to realise I'd KNOW it's only because you're pissed off with me for some reason that you've actually MADE up.
And something CAN be stupid and true... what about that guy who cut his balls off last year during the six nations cos Wales lost? Stupid!!!! Yet TRUE! :cool:
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you