Finally somebody disagreeing using something intelligent to say and giving reasons instead of just 'you're wrong' and jumping down my throat for stating the simple facts.
I'm not saying that the US gives the most in humanitarian aid because to be honest I really don't know. I know the US gives a lot but so does Japan and the UK as well as many other countries. And those lists don't show all donations such as private donations. I just think using the per capita method is an unfair calculation for various reasons. The US could give a country $301 million dollars which would only equal $1 per American and Luxembourg could give that same country 1 million dollars but that would equal about $2 per Luxembourger or what ever they are called, lol. Even though the US gave $300 million dollars more than Luxembourg, Luxembourg would still be listed as giving more per capita which is simply not a fair assessment in my mind. I'm not even sure if we calculated the private donations it would be fair as well considering there are 301 million of us and only about a 1/2 of million people in Luxembourg so obviously because there are way more of us than them, the private donations would be way more in the US.
I would have to say Japan has been doing above and beyond in humanitarian aid.
"...believe in lies...to get by...it's divine...whoa...oh, you know what its like..."
I'm not saying that the US gives the most in humanitarian aid because to be honest I really don't know. I know the US gives a lot but so does Japan and the UK as well as many other countries. And those lists don't show all donations such as private donations. I just think using the per capita method is an unfair calculation for various reasons. The US could give a country $301 million dollars which would only equal $1 per American and Luxembourg could give that same country 1 million dollars but that would equal about $2 per Luxembourger or what ever they are called, lol. Even though the US gave $300 million dollars more than Luxembourg, Luxembourg would still be listed as giving more per capita which is simply not a fair assessment in my mind. I'm not even sure if we calculated the private donations it would be fair as well considering there are 301 million of us and only about a 1/2 of million people in Luxembourg so obviously because there are way more of us than them, the private donations would be way more in the US.
I would have to say Japan has been doing above and beyond in humanitarian aid.
I see your point BUT the equality of wealth is better in other countries in the developed world. So is it a BAD thing that the US gives less per capita (I think I posted the private donations link somewhere where the US is still down the list) as more richer people should be giving higher donations... along with the little that the poorer people are giving... OR does it mean the US is more generous... (as millionaires aren't millionaires because of their generosity) as it's the poor people giving the money? Sorry, I hope that makes sense.
Yes Japan HAS been doing alot and I have to admit I didn't know that til I started checking the facts... I suppose there just aren't many Japanese here boasting about how much they're giving.
Edit: I had posted the link on another thread. Here it is:
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You're again missing the point and misquoting me... I never criticised ANYONE and certainly not the US... ok, I take it back, the people I AM criticising are those making false claims... I simply thought a thread was needed to shed light on the truth as quite a few people don't seem to understand. Here's an interesting article.
Ok -- I just hope you understand how such a sentence reads to those of us here:
"THEY can be proud"
That implies that I have nothing to be proud of. The millions of people helped by US foreign aid says differently.
You can insult Ireland as much as you want, but why would you want to? You seem to think I'd get as offended as you seem to be!
I wouldn't. I have no beef with Ireland, at least on this issue.
But you fail to realise I'd KNOW it's only because you're pissed off with me for some reason that you've actually MADE up.
Hehe...I'm not pissed at you. I realize my posts can come off as aggressive, but I'm certainly not angry or upset with you. I'm simply challenging the logic within and the motives behind your original post. That's it.
And something CAN be stupid and true... what about that guy who cut his balls off last year during the six nations cos Wales lost? Stupid!!!! Yet TRUE! :cool:
Hehe...that's two different things. The act of cutting your balls off is stupid. The fact that it happened is true.
It's just the fact that I don't think I've EVER seen any Norwegians, Danish, Dutch or Luxumbourgers post here about how they donated more than anyone in the world FACT...
Ok. How many Norwegians, Danish, Dutch or Luxumbourians (sp???) are here? I mean, I've personally seen you brag about Irish foreign aid many moons ago. And there's really nothing wrong with that. The Irish do good work there. Way to go, pat on the back.
they don't go on and on and on and on about it.
Who does that here? I certainly don't read all the threads here, but where are Americans going "on and on" about foreign aid? Most Americans dislike excessive aid going through governmental channels.
Anytime there's a thread about charity somebody always brings this up about the US and it's simply my job as an observer to point out that they're wrong.
They're not wrong though, and that's the problem here. The US is responsible for the lion's share of the world's foreign aid. Now, it's certainly valid for you to counter with a discussion about per-capita aid and the like, but those facts don't change the original contention that the US is a very charitable nation through both public and private channels. And when you attach implications that the US has nothing to be proud of, that's far worse than anything anyone else is saying there.
Lost in the discussion, unfortunately, is the effective results of foreign aid or a lot of the other important issues around this issue.
Ok -- I just hope you understand how such a sentence reads to those of us here:
"THEY can be proud"
That implies that I have nothing to be proud of. The millions of people helped by US foreign aid says differently.
Ok, well then I take it back and apologise... I think you're beginning to understand why I started the thread, not to bash anybody but those who seemed to be wrongly taking the upper ground. So if I said anything that implies you've nothing to be proud of I'm sorry.
Hehe...I'm not pissed at you. I realize my posts can come off as aggressive, but I'm certainly not angry or upset with you. I'm simply challenging the logic within and the motives behind your original post. That's it.
Well I'm glad to hear that but my motives WERE genuine. Can you see how irritating it can be to read posts from people implying that the US are the most generous country in the world? I just wanted to address that issue and make them understand how it works. Charity is NOT about taking credit so I wish people would stop looking for it.
Hehe...that's two different things. The act of cutting your balls off is stupid. The fact that it happened is true.
Ok... you can play around with language and verbs as much as you want... it's STILL stupid AND true
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Ok, well then I take it back and apologise... I think you're beginning to understand why I started the thread, not to bash anybody but those who seemed to be wrongly taking the upper ground. So if I said anything that implies you've nothing to be proud of I'm sorry.
Cool.
That's good to know... so what issues then?
Ireland's involvement in the EU, amongst others, but that's a different discussion
Well I'm glad to hear that but my motives WERE genuine. Can you see how irritating it can be to read posts from people implying that the US are the most generous country in the world?
Not really, no. If you implied, for instance, that Irish people are the smartest people in the world, I wouldn't be annoyed. I'd have a good laugh because the claim is silly. There are many stupid Irish people, and many brilliant ones. Similarly, the United States is full of charitable people as well as miserly ones.
The claim "most charitable" is a completely silly claim for any population to make. Individuals are charitable and cultures can encourage charity, but just because one nation gives the most overall, or the most per-capita, says little about the actual charitable qualities of its population, or the actual positive effects of its charity. It simplifies the issue to a laughable point.
I just wanted to address that issue and make them understand how it works. Charity is NOT about taking credit so I wish people would stop looking for it.
Charity is certainly not about taking credit. It's not about what you're doing here though either.
Ok. How many Norwegians, Danish, Dutch or Luxumbourians (sp???) are here? I mean, I've personally seen you brag about Irish foreign aid many moons ago. And there's really nothing wrong with that. The Irish do good work there. Way to go, pat on the back..
I'm usually only coerced into bragging when I hear about all the wonderful work the Americans do :rolleyes: There are a few from each nationality that I've met, with the exception of Luxumbourg, I don't think I've ever met anyone from there... but there's at least one who posts on the AET.
Who does that here? I certainly don't read all the threads here, but where are Americans going "on and on" about foreign aid? Most Americans dislike excessive aid going through governmental channels..
Trust me on this one... it's happened so many times that I've felt the need to start a thread about it. It may be the same ones each time, I'm not sure, but it's happened more than a few times whenever charity is mentioned.
They're not wrong though, and that's the problem here. The US is responsible for the lion's share of the world's foreign aid. Now, it's certainly valid for you to counter with a discussion about per-capita aid and the like, but those facts don't change the original contention that the US is a very charitable nation through both public and private channels. And when you attach implications that the US has nothing to be proud of, that's far worse than anything anyone else is saying there..
Well it's not really far worse because I've apologised and said that wasn't what I intended at all.
Lost in the discussion, unfortunately, is the effective results of foreign aid or a lot of the other important issues around this issue.
Well let's discuss that then.
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Not really, no. If you implied, for instance, that Irish people are the smartest people in the world, I wouldn't be annoyed. I'd have a good laugh because the claim is silly. There are many stupid Irish people, and many brilliant ones. Similarly, the United States is full of charitable people as well as miserly ones.
Well try telling that to some of the people CONTINUING the claim.
The claim "most charitable" is a completely silly claim for any population to make. Individuals are charitable and cultures can encourage charity, but just because one nation gives the most overall, or the most per-capita, says little about the actual charitable qualities of its population, or the actual positive effects of its charity. It simplifies the issue to a laughable point.
Charity is certainly not about taking credit. It's not about what you're doing here though either.
What do you mean?
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I'm usually only coerced into bragging when I hear about all the wonderful work the Americans do :rolleyes: There are a few from each nationality that I've met, with the exception of Luxumbourg, I don't think I've ever met anyone from there... but there's at least one who posts on the AET.
Ok, but do you see my point? There's a large section of Americans on here, so you're going to get all kinds. I'm sure there are people from Luxumbourg or Ireland or whereever who run around trumpeting their foreign aid, just like Americans do sometimes.
Trust me on this one... it's happened so many times that I've felt the need to start a thread about it. It may be the same ones each time, I'm not sure, but it's happened more than a few times whenever charity is mentioned.
Ok.
Well it's not really far worse because I've apologised and said that wasn't what I intended at all.
Fair enough.
Well let's discuss that then.
Ok, then let's go back to the initial question I posed in this thread that no one saw or people ignored:
Does anyone know how much "Humanitarian Aid" the United States has received in its history?
Ok, but do you see my point? There's a large section of Americans on here, so you're going to get all kinds. I'm sure there are people from Luxumbourg or Ireland or whereever who run around trumpeting their foreign aid, just like Americans do sometimes.
Ok, then let's go back to the initial question I posed in this thread that no one saw or people ignored:
Does anyone know how much "Humanitarian Aid" the United States has received in its history?
For what? America has always had enough money to feed its people. It has never been a poor country, to my knowledge?
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Well try telling that to some of the people CONTINUING the claim.
Ok, I will. The next time I hear someone here say that America is the most charitable nation in the world, I'll respond with a good laugh and remind them that many nations throughout the world give a very good deal of aid as well and deserve credit for their works.
What do you mean?
You're simply trying to remove/transfer credit, which isn't much different than what those Americans you mention are doing. I mean, this entire thread is aimed at those Americans, which is really just spite (relatively innocuous spite, however). You could have accomplished exactly the same good things here by starting a thread simply highlighting the works of European nations. Yet your original post mentions the US or America nearly ten times in about as many sentences. You've effectively made this a thread inviting Americans to defend themselves, which is the only reason I'm here.
For what? America has always had enough money to feed its people. It has never been a poor country, to my knowledge?
Hehe....well that's the issue then. Of course America was once a poor country. It was a poor country for the first few generations of its Western existence.
The fundamental purpose of my question is this: there are many underlying assumptions to many discussions regarding foreign aid that suggest that foreign aid is required for poor nations to accomplish things. Some of these assumptions can be correct, but none of them are universally correct.
Hehe....well that's the issue then. Of course America was once a poor country. It was a poor country for the first few generations of its Western existence.
did it receive 'aid' from the UK and France back then? If so, I wonder what that would equate to in todays monetary terms?
oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
Ok, I will. The next time I hear someone here say that America is the most charitable nation in the world, I'll respond with a good laugh and remind them that many nations throughout the world give a very good deal of aid as well and deserve credit for their works.
Thank you
You're simply trying to remove/transfer credit, which isn't much different than what those Americans you mention are doing. I mean, this entire thread is aimed at those Americans, which is really just spite (relatively innocuous spite, however). You could have accomplished exactly the same good things here by starting a thread simply highlighting the works of European nations. Yet your original post mentions the US or America nearly ten times in about as many sentences. You've effectively made this a thread inviting Americans to defend themselves, which is the only reason I'm here.[/quote]
It's not about removing/transfering credit... it's not about credit at ALL, it's about reminding people to know all their facts when they go saying things like 'we're the biggest/hardest/best/whatever'. I haven't invited Americans to defend themselves, I was merely making a point. Yes it was directed TOWARDS Americans as, like you've pointed out, they ARE the majority posting here and therefore the most people I've heard BRAGGING about the generosity of their country.
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I mean, this entire thread is aimed at those Americans, which is really just spite (relatively innocuous spite, however).
I disagree on the spite. I think it's entirely relevent that Helen demystify some mythical high road thinking that does take place out here. And I've actually learned a lot because of it. To me I don't see this "spite" at all. Maybe frustration. Maybe a "I've had it up to here" kinda thing. She apologised at one point, seemingly recognising where she might have brought her personal feelings to the argument. Yet ultimately, I think her point is quite valid and the intent meaningful. It's always okay to counter something, be it facts, a mindset, or an argument.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
did it receive 'aid' from the UK and France back then? If so, I wonder what that would equate to in todays monetary terms?
America received much in military aid from the French. Every Frenchman who is told by an American that we saved them in WWII is wise to respond that they saved us in the Revolutionary War and, particularly, the War of 1812. The former would still have been won without the French, but the latter probably would not have been.
American aid from the British is much more complicated and really can't be classified as "aid" since America paid more into the British system than it received as a colony.
did it receive 'aid' from the UK and France back then? If so, I wonder what that would equate to in todays monetary terms?
Also, I recall in days of our famine, that entire families used to save to send ONE person over there... so that person went with what would have been a small fortune to Irish families back then. NOT to simply point out Irish people but I'm sure every other nationality did the same... so you COULD say that America was built with that money... since it was a poor country before then would that equate to aid?
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I disagree on the spite. I think it's entirely relevent that Helen demystify some mythical high road thinking that does take place out here. And I've actually learned a lot because of it. To me I don't see this "spite" at all. Maybe frustration. Maybe a "I've had it up to here" kinda thing. She apologised at one point, seemingly recognising where she might have brought her personal feelings to the argument. Yet ultimately, I think her point is quite valid and the intent meaningful. It's always okay to counter something, be it facts, a mindset, or an argument.
Thanks Angelica
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America received much in military aid from the French. Every Frenchman who is told by an American that we saved them in WWII is wise to respond that they saved us in the Revolutionary War and, particularly, the War of 1812. The former would still have been won without the French, but the latter probably would not have been.
American aid from the British is much more complicated and really can't be classified as "aid" since America paid more into the British system than it received as a colony.
I'm still not quite sure what your point is regarding how much America has received in humanitarian aid? Should we be sending money to RICH countries now or something? Excuse my ignorance but please just clarify why it's something that NEEDS to be discussed regarding charity.
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Also, I recall in days of our famine, that entire families used to save to send ONE person over there... so that person went with what would have been a small fortune to Irish families back then. NOT to simply point out Irish people but I'm sure every other nationality did the same... so you COULD say that America was built with that money... since it was a poor country before then would that equate to aid?
Hehe...not really. The immigrant who came to America with a "fortunate" was a rare immigrant indeed.
I'm still not quite sure what your point is regarding how much America has received in humanitarian aid? Should we be sending money to RICH countries now or something? Excuse my ignorance but please just clarify why it's something that NEEDS to be discussed regarding charity.
My suggestion is that America (along with many other nations) did not need aid or charity to become what it is today. America, Ireland, and many other nations became what they are not because of what other nations did or did not do, but rather because of what the people of that country did for themselves.
My suggestion is that America (along with many other nations) did not need aid or charity to become what it is today. America, Ireland, and many other nations became what they are not because of what other nations did or did not do, but rather because of what the people of that country did for themselves.
You don't think it might be a bit of both? You don't think it comes from within AND without?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
My suggestion is that America (along with many other nations) did not need aid or charity to become what it is today. America, Ireland, and many other nations became what they are not because of what other nations did or did not do, but rather because of what the people of that country did for themselves
Oh I agree there is a SMALL amount of satisfaction to be held about that... however, it doesn't mean we can be smug now that we HAVE money and just allow people to die be it from starvation or AIDS or whatever.
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Of course. But I'm saying that the primary driver behind the success of a nation is not the charity of its neighbors, but the abilities of its people.
No amount of charity can overcome a witless population. A brilliant population, however, can overcome a complete lack of charity.
Some people simply don't HAVE the abilities or the resources... we were lucky that Britain were preoccupied by another much BIGGER war when we finally got rid of them. Also, quite a lot of our riches came from our returned emigrants. Should we overlook the fact that they HAD to leave in the first place... it took hundredS of years for us to get our act together. Should we make those other nations also suffer for hundreds of years? There really is no need for it.
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America was largely built upon its own money, or more appopriately, what that money represented: the labor of the American people.
Oh I agree there is a SMALL amount of satisfaction to be held about that...
Hehe...no. There is a GREAT amount of satisfaction to be held about that. It is the same satisfaction that you're looking for in Ethiopia, but does not exist for the most part despite billions of those very same dollars being poured into that nation.
however, it doesn't mean we can be smug now that we HAVE money and just allow people to die be it from starvation or AIDS or whatever.
Smugness and other people (starving or otherwise) have nothing do to with it.
America was largely built upon its own money, or more appopriately, what that money represented: the labor of the American people.
But the resources were there. How are they going to manage to build a skyscraper in ethopia when they have to walk 20 miles every day just for water? Or whatever it is. Priorities change when you're starving. Those people in America could grow their own food or whatever... the land isn't QUITE the same in Africa.
Hehe...no. There is a GREAT amount of satisfaction to be held about that. It is the same satisfaction that you're looking for in Ethiopia, but does not exist for the most part despite billions of those very same dollars being poured into that nation.
Well THAT'S the conversation I want to have... about where the money's going. Also, you said you give 10% of your income to charity. Can I ask why if you have this opinion? Do you not think those people should help themselves WITHOUT your money? Besides I've never been to Ethopia so I can't comment but I'd imagine it takes a couple of generations to get rid of the hunger and the loss that your family have suffered.
Smugness and other people (starving or otherwise) have nothing do to with it.
How so? I think it has everything to do with it.
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Some people simply don't HAVE the abilities or the resources...
Very true, yes. There was a time when no one knew how to build a fire, or knew how to build a bridge, or knew how to build a railroad, or knew how to go to the moon. Yet they were done, because people needed those things and figured out how to get them.
we were lucky that Britain were preoccupied by another much BIGGER war when we finally got rid of them. Also, quite a lot of our riches came from our returned emigrants. Should we overlook the fact that they HAD to leave in the first place... it took hundredS of years for us to get our act together. Should we make those other nations also suffer for hundreds of years? There really is no need for it.
There is often a need for it, though not in the way you're thinking.
Suffering is typically not needless. When someone suffers, they suffer for a reason. The reason begets the sufferring -- it is a direct result needed by its cause. The question should not be "is this suffering needless?". The question should be "is the cause of this suffering needless?".
Comments
I'm not saying that the US gives the most in humanitarian aid because to be honest I really don't know. I know the US gives a lot but so does Japan and the UK as well as many other countries. And those lists don't show all donations such as private donations. I just think using the per capita method is an unfair calculation for various reasons. The US could give a country $301 million dollars which would only equal $1 per American and Luxembourg could give that same country 1 million dollars but that would equal about $2 per Luxembourger or what ever they are called, lol. Even though the US gave $300 million dollars more than Luxembourg, Luxembourg would still be listed as giving more per capita which is simply not a fair assessment in my mind. I'm not even sure if we calculated the private donations it would be fair as well considering there are 301 million of us and only about a 1/2 of million people in Luxembourg so obviously because there are way more of us than them, the private donations would be way more in the US.
I would have to say Japan has been doing above and beyond in humanitarian aid.
I see your point BUT the equality of wealth is better in other countries in the developed world. So is it a BAD thing that the US gives less per capita (I think I posted the private donations link somewhere where the US is still down the list) as more richer people should be giving higher donations... along with the little that the poorer people are giving... OR does it mean the US is more generous... (as millionaires aren't millionaires because of their generosity) as it's the poor people giving the money? Sorry, I hope that makes sense.
Yes Japan HAS been doing alot and I have to admit I didn't know that til I started checking the facts... I suppose there just aren't many Japanese here boasting about how much they're giving.
Edit: I had posted the link on another thread. Here it is:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0930884.html
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Ok -- I just hope you understand how such a sentence reads to those of us here:
"THEY can be proud"
That implies that I have nothing to be proud of. The millions of people helped by US foreign aid says differently.
I wouldn't. I have no beef with Ireland, at least on this issue.
Hehe...I'm not pissed at you. I realize my posts can come off as aggressive, but I'm certainly not angry or upset with you. I'm simply challenging the logic within and the motives behind your original post. That's it.
Hehe...that's two different things. The act of cutting your balls off is stupid. The fact that it happened is true.
Ok. How many Norwegians, Danish, Dutch or Luxumbourians (sp???) are here? I mean, I've personally seen you brag about Irish foreign aid many moons ago. And there's really nothing wrong with that. The Irish do good work there. Way to go, pat on the back.
Who does that here? I certainly don't read all the threads here, but where are Americans going "on and on" about foreign aid? Most Americans dislike excessive aid going through governmental channels.
They're not wrong though, and that's the problem here. The US is responsible for the lion's share of the world's foreign aid. Now, it's certainly valid for you to counter with a discussion about per-capita aid and the like, but those facts don't change the original contention that the US is a very charitable nation through both public and private channels. And when you attach implications that the US has nothing to be proud of, that's far worse than anything anyone else is saying there.
Lost in the discussion, unfortunately, is the effective results of foreign aid or a lot of the other important issues around this issue.
Ok, well then I take it back and apologise... I think you're beginning to understand why I started the thread, not to bash anybody but those who seemed to be wrongly taking the upper ground. So if I said anything that implies you've nothing to be proud of I'm sorry.
That's good to know... so what issues then?
Well I'm glad to hear that but my motives WERE genuine. Can you see how irritating it can be to read posts from people implying that the US are the most generous country in the world? I just wanted to address that issue and make them understand how it works. Charity is NOT about taking credit so I wish people would stop looking for it.
Ok... you can play around with language and verbs as much as you want... it's STILL stupid AND true
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Cool.
Ireland's involvement in the EU, amongst others, but that's a different discussion
Not really, no. If you implied, for instance, that Irish people are the smartest people in the world, I wouldn't be annoyed. I'd have a good laugh because the claim is silly. There are many stupid Irish people, and many brilliant ones. Similarly, the United States is full of charitable people as well as miserly ones.
The claim "most charitable" is a completely silly claim for any population to make. Individuals are charitable and cultures can encourage charity, but just because one nation gives the most overall, or the most per-capita, says little about the actual charitable qualities of its population, or the actual positive effects of its charity. It simplifies the issue to a laughable point.
Charity is certainly not about taking credit. It's not about what you're doing here though either.
Trust me on this one... it's happened so many times that I've felt the need to start a thread about it. It may be the same ones each time, I'm not sure, but it's happened more than a few times whenever charity is mentioned.
Well it's not really far worse because I've apologised and said that wasn't what I intended at all.
Well let's discuss that then.
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Well try telling that to some of the people CONTINUING the claim.
I agree totally.
What do you mean?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Ok, but do you see my point? There's a large section of Americans on here, so you're going to get all kinds. I'm sure there are people from Luxumbourg or Ireland or whereever who run around trumpeting their foreign aid, just like Americans do sometimes.
Ok.
Fair enough.
Ok, then let's go back to the initial question I posed in this thread that no one saw or people ignored:
Does anyone know how much "Humanitarian Aid" the United States has received in its history?
Ok fair enough.
For what? America has always had enough money to feed its people. It has never been a poor country, to my knowledge?
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Ok, I will. The next time I hear someone here say that America is the most charitable nation in the world, I'll respond with a good laugh and remind them that many nations throughout the world give a very good deal of aid as well and deserve credit for their works.
You're simply trying to remove/transfer credit, which isn't much different than what those Americans you mention are doing. I mean, this entire thread is aimed at those Americans, which is really just spite (relatively innocuous spite, however). You could have accomplished exactly the same good things here by starting a thread simply highlighting the works of European nations. Yet your original post mentions the US or America nearly ten times in about as many sentences. You've effectively made this a thread inviting Americans to defend themselves, which is the only reason I'm here.
Hehe....well that's the issue then. Of course America was once a poor country. It was a poor country for the first few generations of its Western existence.
The fundamental purpose of my question is this: there are many underlying assumptions to many discussions regarding foreign aid that suggest that foreign aid is required for poor nations to accomplish things. Some of these assumptions can be correct, but none of them are universally correct.
did it receive 'aid' from the UK and France back then? If so, I wonder what that would equate to in todays monetary terms?
Thank you
You're simply trying to remove/transfer credit, which isn't much different than what those Americans you mention are doing. I mean, this entire thread is aimed at those Americans, which is really just spite (relatively innocuous spite, however). You could have accomplished exactly the same good things here by starting a thread simply highlighting the works of European nations. Yet your original post mentions the US or America nearly ten times in about as many sentences. You've effectively made this a thread inviting Americans to defend themselves, which is the only reason I'm here.[/quote]
It's not about removing/transfering credit... it's not about credit at ALL, it's about reminding people to know all their facts when they go saying things like 'we're the biggest/hardest/best/whatever'. I haven't invited Americans to defend themselves, I was merely making a point. Yes it was directed TOWARDS Americans as, like you've pointed out, they ARE the majority posting here and therefore the most people I've heard BRAGGING about the generosity of their country.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
America received much in military aid from the French. Every Frenchman who is told by an American that we saved them in WWII is wise to respond that they saved us in the Revolutionary War and, particularly, the War of 1812. The former would still have been won without the French, but the latter probably would not have been.
American aid from the British is much more complicated and really can't be classified as "aid" since America paid more into the British system than it received as a colony.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Thanks Angelica
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Hehe...not really. The immigrant who came to America with a "fortunate" was a rare immigrant indeed.
My suggestion is that America (along with many other nations) did not need aid or charity to become what it is today. America, Ireland, and many other nations became what they are not because of what other nations did or did not do, but rather because of what the people of that country did for themselves.
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Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Of course. But I'm saying that the primary driver behind the success of a nation is not the charity of its neighbors, but the abilities of its people.
No amount of charity can overcome a witless population. A brilliant population, however, can overcome a complete lack of charity.
Oh I agree there is a SMALL amount of satisfaction to be held about that... however, it doesn't mean we can be smug now that we HAVE money and just allow people to die be it from starvation or AIDS or whatever.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
America was largely built upon its own money, or more appopriately, what that money represented: the labor of the American people.
Hehe...no. There is a GREAT amount of satisfaction to be held about that. It is the same satisfaction that you're looking for in Ethiopia, but does not exist for the most part despite billions of those very same dollars being poured into that nation.
Smugness and other people (starving or otherwise) have nothing do to with it.
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But the resources were there. How are they going to manage to build a skyscraper in ethopia when they have to walk 20 miles every day just for water? Or whatever it is. Priorities change when you're starving. Those people in America could grow their own food or whatever... the land isn't QUITE the same in Africa.
Well THAT'S the conversation I want to have... about where the money's going. Also, you said you give 10% of your income to charity. Can I ask why if you have this opinion? Do you not think those people should help themselves WITHOUT your money? Besides I've never been to Ethopia so I can't comment but I'd imagine it takes a couple of generations to get rid of the hunger and the loss that your family have suffered.
How so? I think it has everything to do with it.
Verona??? it's all surmountable
Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
Wembley? We all believe!
Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
Chicago 07? And love
What a different life
Had I not found this love with you
Very true, yes. There was a time when no one knew how to build a fire, or knew how to build a bridge, or knew how to build a railroad, or knew how to go to the moon. Yet they were done, because people needed those things and figured out how to get them.
There is often a need for it, though not in the way you're thinking.
Suffering is typically not needless. When someone suffers, they suffer for a reason. The reason begets the sufferring -- it is a direct result needed by its cause. The question should not be "is this suffering needless?". The question should be "is the cause of this suffering needless?".