Humanitarian Aid - the myths!

Heineken Helen

http://www.sln.org.uk/geography/Documents/Tsunami/Aid%20Quiz.doc

Here is a quiz some of you should take. I am sick of hearing 'the US give more money by FAR in aid to other countries'. Ok this is wrong as the US actually comes in second on that*.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_aid_don-economy-economic-aid-donor

That's not taking into account that 3/4 of that aid is bi-lateral, meaning that it must be spent on American goods and services :eek:

But how are small countries like Ireland going to compare to that? We only have a population of 4m unlike what? 301m in the US. Well see there's a thing called 'per capita' which is where the money is broken down to see how much is actually given per head... and guess what? The US comes in 20th on this list

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_aid_don_percap-economic-aid-donor-per-capita

Now, there is also another way of judging it... per GDP. US comes in 23rd on this list.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_aid_don_pergdp-economic-aid-donor-per-gdp

Now this is not me bashing the US or anything... any aid is good and welcome... but I just want to quash those myths that the US gives more aid 'BY FAR' than any other country... cos it doesn't on any of those lists.

By the way, congrats to Luxumbourg, Norway, Netherlands and Denmark... THEY can be proud.

Collin

301 million in the US.

Heineken Helen

Collin wrote:

301 million in the US.

Really? I'll edit that then... thanks

dunkman

Collin wrote:

301 million in the US.

301,128,454 actually


oh wait... Darlene just had a baby

301,128,455


but then she shot her boyfriend/cousin Cleetus

301,128,454 it is!

miller8966

"But how are small countries like Ireland going to compare to that? We only have a population of 4m unlike what? 301m in the US. Well see there's a thing called 'per capita' which is where the money is broken down to see how much is actually given per head... and guess what? The US comes in 20th on this list"

probaly cause your country is a joke. Your still tools of the english.

Heineken Helen

miller8966 wrote:

"But how are small countries like Ireland going to compare to that? We only have a population of 4m unlike what? 301m in the US. Well see there's a thing called 'per capita' which is where the money is broken down to see how much is actually given per head... and guess what? The US comes in 20th on this list"

probaly cause your country is a joke. Your still tools of the english.

well miller, we're both speaking the queens english, aren't we? :rolleyes:

Come on, is that the best you can do? :eek:

Heineken Helen

dunkman1974 wrote:

301,128,454 actually


oh wait... Darlene just had a baby

301,128,455


but then she shot her boyfriend/cousin Cleetus

301,128,454 it is!

actually, I have 300,987,240

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

Was there an earthquake somewhere?

farfromglorified

I'm curious, does anyone how much "Humanitarian Aid" the United States has received in its history?

lukin2006

Heineken Helen wrote:

http://www.sln.org.uk/geography/Documents/Tsunami/Aid%20Quiz.doc

Here is a quiz some of you should take. I am sick of hearing 'the US give more money by FAR in aid to other countries'. Ok this is wrong as the US actually comes in second on that*.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_aid_don-economy-economic-aid-donor

That's not taking into account that 3/4 of that aid is bi-lateral, meaning that it must be spent on American goods and services :eek:

But how are small countries like Ireland going to compare to that? We only have a population of 4m unlike what? 301m in the US. Well see there's a thing called 'per capita' which is where the money is broken down to see how much is actually given per head... and guess what? The US comes in 20th on this list

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_aid_don_percap-economic-aid-donor-per-capita

Now, there is also another way of judging it... per GDP. US comes in 23rd on this list.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_eco_aid_don_pergdp-economic-aid-donor-per-gdp

Now this is not me bashing the US or anything... any aid is good and welcome... but I just want to quash those myths that the US gives more aid 'BY FAR' than any other country... cos it doesn't on any of those lists.

By the way, congrats to Luxumbourg, Norway, Netherlands and Denmark... THEY can be proud.

Charity begins at home.

Heineken Helen

beemster wrote:

Charity begins at home.

well yes, Katrina certainly proved THAT, didn't it? :rolleyes:

farfromglorified

Heineken Helen wrote:

well yes, Katrina certainly proved THAT, didn't it? :rolleyes:

So did the Irish Potato famine :rolleyes:

I'm curious -- what percentage of your income did you donate to Katrina victims?

Heineken Helen

farfromglorified wrote:

So did the Irish Potato famine :rolleyes:

I'm curious -- what percentage of your income did you donate to Katrina victims?

EVERYBODY donated money to katrina victims... there were people collecting all over the place. Just like the tsunami. How teh fuck am I supposed to remember what I gave... it was ages ago. But I DID give and it was a lot at the time. Not that it's any of your business but I have a standing order to a charity every month - that's MY priority. What's yours? What percentage do you give and to what charity?

Wow, even Sri Lanka were sending aid to Katrina victims... so don't gimme that 'how come we never got aid' bullshit...

Collin

farfromglorified wrote:

I'm curious, does anyone how much "Humanitarian Aid" the United States has received in its history?

I remember some countries wanted to donate to the Katrina victims but Bush rejected the aid.

lukin2006

farfromglorified wrote:

I'm curious, does anyone how much "Humanitarian Aid" the United States has received in its history?

You'll never hear any people from Europe talk about that, most Europeans (not all) love to criticize the US for not doing enough, but they seem to have forgotten how many billions they have given and forgave in loans after WW2 alone.

redrock

farfromglorified wrote:

I'm curious -- what percentage of your income did you donate to Katrina victims?

Why does this have to become personal? HH was stating a fact/statistics... can we stick to that? We are not talking specific individuals but nations.

jlew24asu

redrock wrote:

Why does this have to become personal? HH was stating a fact/statistics... can we stick to that? We are not talking specific individuals but nations.

sounds good

Net Official Development Assistance in 2005 as US dollar amounts (millions)Country Aid amount by dollars

USA 27,457
Japan 13,101
UK 10,754
France 10,059
Germany 9,915
Netherlands 5,131
Italy 5,053
Canada 3,731
Sweden 3,280
Spain 3,123
Norway 2,775
Denmark 2,107
Belgium 1,975
Switzerland 1,771
Australia 1,666
Austria 1,552
Finland 897
Ireland 692
Greece 535
Portugal 367
New Zealand 274





http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRel...hartsandGraphs

redrock

beemster wrote:

You'll never hear any people from Europe talk about that, most Europeans (not all) love to criticize the US for not doing enough, but they seem to have forgotten how many billions they have given and forgave in loans after WW2 alone.

Here we go.. ww2 again...

miller8966

redrock wrote:

Why does this have to become personal? HH was stating a fact/statistics... can we stick to that? We are not talking specific individuals but nations.

Because his facts and statistics criticized our country...so we just threw some mud back.

Collin

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp#ForeignAidNumbersinChartsandGraphs

Net ODA in 2005 as percent of GNI

Norway 0.93
Sweden 0.92
Luxembourg 0.87
Netherlands 0.82
Denmark 0.81
Belgium 0.53
Austria 0.52
UK 0.48
Finland 0.47
France 0.47
Switzerland 0.44
Ireland 0.41
Germany 0.35
Canada 0.34
Italy 0.29
Spain 0.29
Japan 0.28
New Zealand 0.27
Australia 0.25
Greece 0.24
USA 0.22
Portugal 0.21

redrock

jlew24asu wrote:

sounds good

Net Official Development Assistance in 2005 as US dollar amounts (millions)Country Aid amount by dollars

USA 27,457
Japan 13,101
UK 10,754
France 10,059
Germany 9,915
Netherlands 5,131
Italy 5,053
Canada 3,731
Sweden 3,280
Spain 3,123
Norway 2,775
Denmark 2,107
Belgium 1,975
Switzerland 1,771
Australia 1,666
Austria 1,552
Finland 897
Ireland 692
Greece 535
Portugal 367
New Zealand 274





http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRel...hartsandGraphs

Your stats are probably correct too (the link didn't work for me), but the US are a huge (and rich?) country. Obviously the total $ amount is larger but, if we are looking at a percentage of gdp or per capita, it is true that there are other countries that are more generous. Whatever amount, any amount of aid is welcomed by the people who need it.

redrock

miller8966 wrote:

Because his facts and statistics criticized our country...so we just threw some mud back.

But they are facts....

redrock

Collin wrote:

http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp#ForeignAidNumbersinChartsandGraphs

Net ODA in 2005 as percent of GNI

Norway 0.93
Sweden 0.92
Luxembourg 0.87
Netherlands 0.82
Denmark 0.81
Belgium 0.53
Austria 0.52
UK 0.48
Finland 0.47
France 0.47
Switzerland 0.44
Ireland 0.41
Germany 0.35
Canada 0.34
Italy 0.29
Spain 0.29
Japan 0.28
New Zealand 0.27
Australia 0.25
Greece 0.24
USA 0.22
Portugal 0.21

I guess if the target is 0.7% of GNI, not many countries can be proud of themselves...

jlew24asu

redrock wrote:

Your stats are probably correct too (the link didn't work for me), but the US are a huge (and rich?) country. Obviously the total $ amount is larger but, if we are looking at a percentage of gdp or per capita, it is true that there are other countries that are more generous. Whatever amount, any amount of aid is welcomed by the people who need it.

I'm not debating whether we give the most per capita. we dont. my point is in dollars and cents. the dollars that actually put food on the table. USA gives the most. and your last statement is correct

lukin2006

redrock wrote:

Here we go.. ww2 again...

No! Not here we go again, I used that as a reference point. And since that point they have given plenty. I personally don't care who gives the most or who gives the least, but lets be real, most of that money that goes into foreign aid does not reach the people its intended to help.

redrock

jlew24asu wrote:

I'm not debating whether we give the most per capita. we dont. my point is in dollars and cents. the dollars that actually put food on the table. USA gives the most. and your last statement is correct

Yep.. in dollars and cents.

ThumbingMyWay32

lol Jlew says we give more humanitarian dollars than any other country in the world by far.

And what is the response to that?

"No you don't. Just look at these Per Capita figures."


Listen... If you're a dumbass, just say so. Otherwise, just shut up if you can't speak on topic.

farfromglorified

Heineken Helen wrote:

EVERYBODY donated money to katrina victims... there were people collecting all over the place. Just like the tsunami. How teh fuck am I supposed to remember what I gave... it was ages ago. But I DID give and it was a lot at the time. Not that it's any of your business but I have a standing order to a charity every month - that's MY priority.

Awesome! Now, do you also recognize that millions of people in the United States share that priority?

What's yours? What percentage do you give and to what charity?

I am willing to give 50% of my income to charity. The government steals roughly 40% of that, so the remaining 10% goes to charities of my choosing.

Wow, even Sri Lanka were sending aid to Katrina victims... so don't gimme that 'how come we never got aid' bullshit...

I didn't give you that bullshit. I simply challenged your ridiculous generalization of the Katrina situation, ignoring the millions of incredibly generous people here who donated their time, money and efforts.

farfromglorified

redrock wrote:

Why does this have to become personal? HH was stating a fact/statistics... can we stick to that? We are not talking specific individuals but nations.

Hehe..."nations" can't donate money friend.

When someone suggests that the United States is "uncharitable" or does not deserve credit for the charitable works it does throughout this world, they've made things personal.

miller8966

i personally dont think we should give any money.

farfromglorified

I'm curious, would those of you who talk about "percent GDP" on this issue do the same with issues such as the national debt? For instance, the United State's national debt, as a percentage of GDP, is lower than most European nations. Also, what about on Education spending, where the US is tenth, ahead of many European nations? How come "percent GDP" never comes up in those discussions? What about the poverty issue? How come "per-capita GDP" doesn't come up there, where the US ranks third?

Furthermore, I don't see any mention at all of private donations in these figures. The United States citizenry donates nearly three times privately overseas than they do publicly through government institutions. Does this simply not count?

The fact remains is that the United States gives the most hard dollars to foreign aid, by far. You cannot feed people with "percent GDP". You feed them with food bought with money or harvested with time. The US leads the world in these donations. Should we be celebrated as wonderfully charitable people? Not necessarily, no. Should we be vilified for not "giving enough"? Of course not. Those who receive this aid should simply be thankful. In most cases, they've done nothing to earn it. Those who simply observe this aid are in no position to criticize -- they own their own behavior, not the behavior of others.

There is nothing more petty and disgusting than the child who will quibble with the giver over his charity. If you do not like it, do not accept it. If you do not think it's enough, supplement it. But do not pretend it is owed to you -- you've done nothing to earn it.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

The U.S is the major provider of forgien aid (I think), but the majority of U.S. aid to other countries is typically not humanitarian...it's mostly economic aid that's given to a select few people and groups who use the money to increase their exports to the U.S. This makes money for rich investors, but does very little for the common people. Yeah, it provides jobs, but the jobs are usually terrible. And in countries where the main exports are agro-related, you see a large percentage of the population starving to death because all their farm land is being used up by the wealthy landowners making a killing with their U.S. exports (Honduras or Nicaragua are good examples). GDP and profits go way up, and the majority of the population plummets into disaster because there's no land left for domestic agriculture. So it's hardly humanitarian. This goes without even mentioning the military aid, which we all know is basically the opposite of humanitarian aid.