Jesus Camp, the documentary

Religion is absurd. The kooky adults can get together all they like but why not give the kids a chance to grow up relatively sane? My crazy parents sent me to stuff like this when I was a kid. The message is NOT one of peace and love...it's peace and love IF YOU ARE WHO WE TELL YOU TO BE AND THINK AS WE SAY YOU SHOULD THINK.

Obviously I am an anti-religion sort of fellow. Still, isn't it a better idea to allow kids to grow up and then choose religion if they decide they want to instead of being pushed into it at a young age?

By the way, before anyone jumps my shit here about this Jesus Camp movie, I have not seen the film.

What leaves me feeling most offended by that clip is the part where the lady says, "There are two kinds of people: people who love jesus, and people who don't."

It's as if her sense of morality is defined in whole by the fact that she loves jesus. So, in her mind, those who do not love jesus do not have a sense of morality.

And what that amounts to is intolerance. That's when religion becomes a haven for exclusionists instead of a path toward enlightenment. And I don't think that point of view is necessarily unique to jesus camp goers. I think christians in general feel as though people who have not found jesus are destined to be void of morality.

In other words, because I have not found jesus, I am therefore something of an inferior person devoid of any similarities between myself and the "faithful". I don't see how the world will ever live in harmony when there are people out there who are convinced that our commonalities begin and end with whether or not we believe a certain thing.

sponger wrote:

What leaves me feeling most offended by that clip is the part where the lady says, "There are two kinds of people: people who love jesus, and people who don't."

It's as if her sense of morality is defined in whole by the fact that she loves jesus. So, in her mind, those who do not love jesus do not have a sense of morality.

And what that amounts to is intolerance. That's when religion becomes a haven for exclusionists instead of a path toward enlightenment. And I don't think that point of view is necessarily unique to jesus camp goers. I think christians in general feel as though people who have not found jesus are destined to be void of morality.

In other words, because I have not found jesus, I am therefore something of an inferior person devoid of any similarities between myself and the "faithful". I don't see how the world will ever live in harmony when there are people out there who are convinced that our commonalities begin and end with whether or not we believe a certain thing.

I hate that hypocracy, I live my life with a stong sense of morals and consideration for my fellow man. I don't need religion for that...

There are so many people that hide behind religion to justify themselves as morally superior and in reality are morally very weak.

UKDave wrote:

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sponger wrote:

What leaves me feeling most offended by that clip is the part where the lady says, "There are two kinds of people: people who love jesus, and people who don't."

It's as if her sense of morality is defined in whole by the fact that she loves jesus. So, in her mind, those who do not love jesus do not have a sense of morality.

And what that amounts to is intolerance. That's when religion becomes a haven for exclusionists instead of a path toward enlightenment. And I don't think that point of view is necessarily unique to jesus camp goers. I think christians in general feel as though people who have not found jesus are destined to be void of morality.

In other words, because I have not found jesus, I am therefore something of an inferior person devoid of any similarities between myself and the "faithful". I don't see how the world will ever live in harmony when there are people out there who are convinced that our commonalities begin and end with whether or not we believe a certain thing.

I hate that hypocracy, I live my life with a stong sense of morals and consideration for my fellow man. I don't need religion for that...

There are so many people that hide behind religion to justify themselves as morally superior and in reality are morally very weak.

sponger, you're basing a judgment on an assumption you're making about the lady's implied meaning. Not only that, but both the responses I've quoted above (along with a myriad of other posts so far in this topic) are making the very same generalization about Christians that non-Christians claim to hate as a hypocrisy/double-standard if it's a generalization made by Christians.

You're both correct--there are plenty of good people out there who are not necessarily Christian. I know that, and I know many. So what good does it do to make these general judgments?

AllNiteThing wrote:

The only reason these kids aren't strapping bombs on their backs and blowing up buses is because their parents have money and live in the US. You change the economic and geographic status of these people, I guarantee you they're terrorists.

These people are JUST as dangerous as Islamic extremists. No one religion is better than the other, and radicals use it to push their superiority and justify their actions and meaning in life. The Christian dominated west owns the power and money in the world, and influence those in the Mid-East and third world, just short of full-blown imperialism. Radical Muslims used their religion to help them cope with their extreme poverty and use it to fight back. These radical Christians, in the same scenario would act the same way. A radical is a radical. They invoke violence and aggressiveness in desperate times. It scares me when these parents are telling these kids these ARE desperate times for them. They have no idea what it means to be desperate and attacked.

What's scary is how they think they are under attack NOW! Amazing. The rest of us are constantly bombarded by their so called 'faith'. They are constantly trying to legislate it and force it on others. Legalizing abortion and gay marriage doesn't affect YOUR faith, it affects the lives of everyone else however. I'm constantly hearing people preach and complain how everyone's a sinner and their faith is attacked.

so you make the charge that these christian kids would be terrorists and blowing themselves up if they only were poor and in a different geographic area (btw, there are christians in the areas where muslim extremists are who are just as poor and are attacked for their faith and they aren't blowing people up). and you equate them to muslim radicals who have done those things and call them just as dangerous and you question whether or not their beliefs are under attack? you're kidding right? Just as you claim they are forcing their views on you; you are focing your views and making accusations against them.

dkst0426 wrote:

Guess what? There ARE Christian kids and adults who live in poorer, less-desirable areas all around the world. In case you didn't know, the largest area of growth in worldwide Christianity is in Third World countries. And you know what? They're not doing anything of the sort you claim they would, so that guarantee falls flat on its face.

No, it proves nothing. Those nations are predominantly Muslim. The small minorities of Christians have no organizing or rallying power in those nations to try and affect change.

Besides, it is the Western, Christian nations who are imposing their will on these Muslim nations, not the other way around, thus it is not even the same circumstances as the scenario I drew up. So, your criticism of my opinion falls flat on its face.

Dressing the kids in fatigues is just asking for them to link what they're being told to violence. Fatigues=army. Army=fighting. Fighting=war.

AllNiteThing wrote:

GI Jesus.

Do you think if you engrave the bullets with the saying "I Love You" that they'll hurt less?

dkst0426 wrote:

sponger, you're basing a judgment on an assumption you're making about the lady's implied meaning.

OK, so what do you think she meant?

chopitdown wrote:

no I'm comparing your statement that the christians shouldn't feel like they are persecuted to a degree and you wonder how they can say that as you antagonize them by making unfair comparisons and unproveable accusations about them.

You can be concerned about their lobbying just as they are concerned about your lobbying.

You're mixing things up here. I was specifically referring to pushing beliefs on someone else. Me exressing my fears about radical Christian fundamentalism on this board is NOT pushing my BELIEF system or faith or anything like that on anyone else. You choose to read and discuss my opinion if you like. I'm not telling you that you HAVE to believe what I am saying. I'm also not pushing my views or opinions on the government in hopes that they will change laws which will affect yours and everyone elses lives. That is what they are doing, and that is what I have great problem with. They are taking their religion and trying to legislate that on all of us. That is inherently wrong, and quite different from expressing my fears on the internt. Again, THIS is not pushing my views on others. Blocking women from going into planned parenthood clinics, denying others the right to marriage, blowing up abortion dr offices and questioning my morality because I don't believe in a fairy tale IS pushing it.

chopitdown wrote:

check out this webiste if you want to see how some countries are persecuting christians.http://www.persecution.org/suffering/country_info.php?PHPSESSID=366176e34356065e8e221f7ba848fc0d

You expect me to trust info from a clearly biased source?? :rolleyes:

Also, you apparently missed my point yet again. I never said Christians aren't being persecuted somewhere in the world. I said that the Muslim world as a whole is, and that their culture and people are being attacked daily by our influence, socially, militarily and economically. They are using religion to cope in this hopelessness and as a tool to fight back. My point is, is that if it were the other way around (which it is NOT), Christians would be doing the same thing. If Muslims had control of the wealth and military in this world, had bases in the US, military stationed here, and we were poor, I'm saying the radical Christians here would be militant. Guaranteed. You don't think it can happen? Do you ignore history and see that Christians have been some of the most violent, most cruel and inhumane people on this planet? All in the name of the cross. Read your history on the Crusades, on Columbus, on the inquisition and witch burnings, on third world conversions and what happened to our native populations. Then maybe you'll take your Christians-are-better than all glasses off. :rolleyes: Face it...they are NO better.