Jesus Camp, the documentary

puremagic

Many people send their children to bible camps no harm, no foul. This one goes a little further. What is your initial reaction to this upcoming documentary?

Cosmo

puremagic wrote:

Many people send their children to bible camps no harm, no foul. This one goes a little further. What is your initial reaction to this upcoming documentary?

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Is this realated to that church that locked everyone inside because they think that the end of the world is going to happen in the next couple of days?

puremagic

Cosmo wrote:

...
Is this realated to that church that locked everyone inside because they think that the end of the world is going to happen in the next couple of days?

This is about the one in North Dakota. It just makes me wonder if they are trying to find the next Billy Graham or the next home grown terrorist? But, it should be interesting on how children's minds are being shaped and by whom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_EKHK1C2IE

stupidcorporatewhore

A reasonable response...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxJwQ63WS4Y&mode=related&search=

chopitdown

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

A reasonable response...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxJwQ63WS4Y&mode=related&search=

yes "reasonable" :rolleyes:

chopitdown

it's definitely a lot more charasmatic than i thought it would be. I'd be interested to see how the movie plays out rather than the trailer.

puremagic

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

A reasonable response...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxJwQ63WS4Y&mode=related&search=

That doesn't help. Bible camps are a big thing and for those that believe, a good thing. When it's tampered with hate and misinformation regarding other religions and politics then are they on the same line as cult or terrorists training camps. Supposedly, Jesus died for their sins, he never asked them to die in his name.

At what point does teaching become brainwashing? and to what end?

given2fall

North America could use a lot more camps like that.
I've been to retreats, conferences, etc. that were pretty similar and believe me, we're not training to be terrorists. That "war" that they speak of is a spiritual warfare, and I think it's an appropriate term given how faith is being attacked these days. The world is always declaring war on the faithful (as evidenced by that so-called "reasonable response") and Christians need to be prepared for that, and we must be ready to defend our faith - not through violence, but through prayer, civil disobedience, non-comformity, etc.

puremagic

given2fall wrote:

The world is always declaring war on the faithful (as evidenced by that so-called "reasonable response") and Christians need to be prepared for that, and we must be ready to defend our faith - not through violence, but through prayer, civil disobedience, non-comformity, etc.

1. Who are the faithful?

2. In preparing for and defending a war on the faithful, what would you consider civil disobedience and non-comformity, etc. acts or actions?

given2fall

puremagic wrote:

That doesn't help. Bible camps are a big thing and for those that believe, a good thing. When it's tampered with hate and misinformation regarding other religions and politics then are they on the same line as cult or terrorists training camps. Supposedly, Jesus died for their sins, he never asked them to die in his name.

At what point does teaching become brainwashing? and to what end?

Some good points. There's always the potential for misuse and abuse of faith, and there may even be some camps/events sending messages that aren't as peaceful as the many functions in which I've participated. However, they would be the exception to the rule as I myself have never heard a christian speaker (at any of these such events) even imply that the use of force would ever be justified.
I have to take issue with your last statement, though. Jesus may not have specifically asked us to die for Him (at leasy not in any particular passage that I can recall right now, though He does ask us to be willing to make sacrifices), but shouldn't any principled man be willing to die for what he believes in? People have nobly died for much less than their devotion and love to the God they worship and to whom they attribute credit for all that is good.

given2fall

puremagic wrote:

1. Who are the faithful?

2. In preparing for and defending a war on the faithful, what would you consider civil disobedience and non-comformity, etc. acts or actions?

1. Religious people (in this case, especially practicing Christians)
2. "Civil disobedience" specifically, is kind of a tough one, but I would say for example refusing take have any part in or to acknowledge gay marriages. There are also pro-life protests (as the movie showed), or pulling your kid out of class when they're teaching something that contradicts your faith, or boycotts, and then of course there is simply just asserting your faith (for example, even with something as simple as a Jesus fish on your car). Admittedly, such specific and practical strategies are not really discussed as often as they should be at these functions. I guess it's usually more just about having that mindset, and encouraging conviction in a world of apathy and subjectivism.

bryanfury

this report scared me the first time i saw it.

extremism has to start somwhere, and just think of the outcome of 30- years of thsi type of training on our youth. they then turn and teach the same to their children, and next thing you know, we live in saudi arabia, where extremists control everything.

this type of camp has to be shut down now!

why is Bush not interested in stemming this type of fundamentalism?

prism

bryanfury wrote:

this report scared me the first time i saw it.

extremism has to start somwhere, and just think of the outcome of 30- years of thsi type of training on our youth. they then turn and teach the same to their children, and next thing you know, we live in saudi arabia, where extremists control everything.

this type of camp has to be shut down now!

why is Bush not interested in stemming this type of fundamentalism?

because these type of fundamentalist are the ones that put him in office.

bryanfury

prism wrote:

because these type of fundamentalist are the ones that put him in office.

kind of a rhetorical question

but where is the media to call this type of bullshit? covering a football game in a city that is still in ruins?

what a joke...

JOEJOEJOE

Cosmo wrote:

...
Is this realated to that church that locked everyone inside because they think that the end of the world is going to happen in the next couple of days?

The world is ending in the next couple of days???.....that so doesn't work with my schedule......can we push ot back a few thousand years?

I just got a haircut & a car wash yesterday!....would really suck if both went to waste!....not to mention all of the unused giftcards!

KidCarnivore

Let me be the first to call bullshit on the criticism here. Is this group a little nutty? Sure. Fundamentalist? By their own admission. But violent? Come on! If the Christian equivalent of extremism is a bunch of hillbillies dressing their kids in fatigues and having them memorizing Bible verses, I think you can all go back to sleep. There's a huge deal of difference between actual military training camps and using military metaphors. At worst, this group is distasteful and a little nutty.

Cosmo

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

The world is ending in the next couple of days???.....that so doesn't work with my schedule......can we push ot back a few thousand years?

I just got a haircut & a car wash yesterday!....would really suck if both went to waste!....not to mention all of the unused giftcards!

...
I know...
and... "the next couple of days"... was a couple of weeks ago. I'm guessing the inside of that church is smeeling kinda ripe, these days.

Open

given2fall wrote:

North America could use a lot more camps like that.
I've been to retreats, conferences, etc. that were pretty similar and believe me, we're not training to be terrorists. That "war" that they speak of is a spiritual warfare, and I think it's an appropriate term given how faith is being attacked these days. The world is always declaring war on the faithful (as evidenced by that so-called "reasonable response") and Christians need to be prepared for that, and we must be ready to defend our faith - not through violence, but through prayer, civil disobedience, non-comformity, etc.

You're faith is between you and "god"...nothing else needs to be involved..the second you let an outside force, whatever it may be, get involved, then god is no longer involved, it becomes human v human.

JOEJOEJOE

KidCarnivore wrote:

Let me be the first to call bullshit on the criticism here. Is this group a little nutty? Sure. Fundamentalist? By their own admission. But violent? Come on! If the Christian equivalent of extremism is a bunch of hillbillies dressing their kids in fatigues and having them memorizing Bible verses, I think you can all go back to sleep. There's a huge deal of difference between actual military training camps and using military metaphors. At worst, this group is distasteful and a little nutty.

To play Devils advocate here, what if the military outfits rub-off on the kids, and they then use military tactics to "spread the word"?

Cosmo

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

To play Devils advocate here, what if the military outfits rub-off on the kids, and they then use military tactics to "spread the word"?

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Weren't the Branch Dividians an off-shoot of some Christian Church?

KidCarnivore

I'm not saying there's no danger or potential for harm with the military stuff, but that's very, very far from the terrorist parallels it seems to be drawing here.