Call for lethal injection boycott

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  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    Scubascott wrote:
    Exactly what I was thinking earlier. It should be an ethical debate, not one about the most cost-effective way to manage crime, but as soulsinging said, the bottom line in the US is always the bottom line. . . Its all about profit.

    Still, I don't know how you can bicker about the cost to the taxpayer when the original article is talking about methods for dispatching prisoners, and implying that lethal injection is unethical because it might cause distress. What the fuck? Doesn't anyone else find it sickening that these fuckers can be concerned enough about human rights to want to avoid causing pain, while still thinking of ways to cause death? Execution by lethal injection just makes me sick to my stomach. Trying to find nicer ways to kill people. . . the concept is just so ridiculously fucked up.

    its just like going to sleep scott. what could be more humane than that? :rolleyes: why don't they just wait until the prisoner actually does go to sleep and then jab him with the needle. that way he'll never know what hit him. ;)
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  • genie
    genie Posts: 2,222
    catefrances wrote:
    its just like going to sleep scott. what could be more humane than that? :rolleyes: why don't they just wait until the prisoner actually does go to sleep and then jab him with the needle. that way he'll never know what hit him. ;)

    and a pretty good sarcasm :)
  • genie
    genie Posts: 2,222
    Scubascott wrote:
    Exactly what I was thinking earlier. It should be an ethical debate, not one about the most cost-effective way to manage crime, but as soulsinging said, the bottom line in the US is always the bottom line. . . Its all about profit.

    Still, I don't know how you can bicker about the cost to the taxpayer when the original article is talking about methods for dispatching prisoners, and implying that lethal injection is unethical because it might cause distress. What the fuck? Doesn't anyone else find it sickening that these fuckers can be concerned enough about human rights to want to avoid causing pain, while still thinking of ways to cause death? Execution by lethal injection just makes me sick to my stomach. Trying to find nicer ways to kill people. . . the concept is just so ridiculously fucked up.

    wait did you just call me a fucker?? :D world wouldn't be as diverse without people like me ;) If there were no people like me, you wouldn't have to write this post would you? and then you'd be too happy and too bored, because everyone would agree with everything.
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Byrnzie wrote:
    You'd prefer the land of barbarism and lynching would ya?


    Don't have a hand, you only have one more chance to steal. Kind of makes things easy.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Murder the murderer! Right. So if capital punishment is a deterrent - which it isn't - then why are executions not broadcast live across the nation on prime time t.v?


    Maybe they should be. Like the good old days of needing people to hang on the condemned legs to help his neck break. I am sure that anybody watching that live may change their views if they were thinking of committing a crime. You know the young and impressionable who see the music videos as a mentor.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • Kel Varnsen
    Kel Varnsen Posts: 1,952
    catefrances wrote:
    its just like going to sleep scott. what could be more humane than that? :rolleyes: why don't they just wait until the prisoner actually does go to sleep and then jab him with the needle. that way he'll never know what hit him. ;)


    I am still curious as to what kind of doctor willfully chooses to take part in a lethal injection. I mean to me that would go completely against the fundamentals of the profession.
  • genie
    genie Posts: 2,222
    even flow? wrote:
    Maybe they should be. Like the good old days of needing people to hang on the condemned legs to help his neck break. I am sure that anybody watching that live may change their views if they were thinking of committing a crime. You know the young and impressionable who see the music videos as a mentor.

    it does seem to be rather barbaric to display such graphic things on tv, and i'm not sure whether good old days, have actually been good.

    but you are strong-minded, i like you :)
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    genie wrote:
    it does seem to be rather barbaric to display such graphic things on tv, and i'm not sure whether good old days, have actually been good.

    but you are strong-minded, i like you :)


    The different opinions on here, is the needle in my arm that keeps my working day moving on. If we all agreed it would be a boring place to come and read.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    Byrnzie wrote:
    And many were proven innocent too late.

    Again, there's a great documentary out there somewhere - if anyone knows it's name, let me know. I saw it a few years back. I think it's been banned in the U.S - like most things that threaten U.S power interests - Noam Chomsky's 'Manufacturing consent' documentary, and a documentary on the U.S invasion of Panama, for example.
    Anyway, it tells the story of how the documentary maker followed the trial, and eventual execution, of a fella who was later proven to be innocent. I think the documentary maker was British. Anyway, it was a great film. I just can't remember the name of it.

    banned? or nobody will release it?
  • lgt
    lgt Posts: 720
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Anyone seriously interested in this subject should find a copy of Albert Camus' essay 'Reflections on the Guillotine'.

    Also, I saw a documentary a few years ago about a man in the U.S who was executed in the U.S and who was later found to be innocent. Does anyone know the name of it?

    I know the one you're referring to. It was top 5 in one of Channel 4 Greatest Documentaries list I saw a few weeks ago... cannot remember the title, though, sorry. I remember it struck me so much I wanted to watch it - I had never heard of it. They showed clips of the defense lawyer, and the film-maker saying good-bye to the man, just before leaving, coming off the camera and leaving impartiality behind.

    Sadly, I am really bad with names.

    Let me check the site though...

    Sorry cannot find anything!

    This links to the BFI site and its documentary season but it's not listed there.

    http://www.channel4.com/blogs/page/fourdocs?entry=can_documentaries_change_the_world
  • lgt
    lgt Posts: 720
    This is an interview with that defense lawyer featured in that documentary {which was one of his first cases - it looked set in the early mid-80s from the attire/clothes/etc of people; and yes, it was a British film-maker who shot it.}

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1865864.stm

    GRRR!!!! This is so annoying!! I remember clips from that show but not the title!!

    I will get to the bottom of this ... I'm on a mission! ;)
  • lgt
    lgt Posts: 720
    Found it! :)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Days_In_May

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0188626/

    http://movies.nytimes.com/movie/191655/Fourteen-Days-in-May-The-Capital-Punishment-Debate/overview
  • genie
    genie Posts: 2,222
    even flow? wrote:
    The different opinions on here, is the needle in my arm that keeps my working day moving on. If we all agreed it would be a boring place to come and read.

    hmm....boring place to come....hey! that's what i've said to the person who quoted me. well, i agree with you, just don't steal what i've said ;) copycat :D
  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    soulsinging wrote:
    i knew the $15 bullet thing was a joke, and it was funny at that. i've made worse myself round here. the women don't much like me.

    as to the appeals, what do you see as the big benefit of execution? there are only a few options here:

    1. keep it as it is and keep going with incredibly expensive executions rather than the cheaper life in prison. is it worth it? why?

    2. drop the appeals process to make executions cheaper than life in prison. but since people are released from prison almost every month when it is found on appeal that they were actually innocent, this tactic is going to execute a lot of innocents. is it worth it? why?

    3. abolish the death penalty and switch to life in prison with no parole. offenders don't get out of jail, ever, but they don't die either. is that not good enough? why not? what does execution add?


    i would keep the death penalty in place. have a prison where there are nothing BUT death row inmates. but the condition would be that they could and would be (somehow) be a self supporting prison...try to escape, the die the next day. no exceptions.

    i wouldn't drop the appeals process, but have a max number of times that it could be appealed. also (somehow) keep it from dragging out for 15 years before they fry.

    somehow keep the abuse of the system down. hey, don't ask how many or whatever, i don't know...you're the almost lawyer.

    if they get the penalty, the should die.


    not to open up a can of worms (but i must) how many here that do not support the death penalty support abortion?
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    810wmb wrote:
    not to open up a can of worms (but i must) how many here that do not support the death penalty support abortion?

    i support a woman's right to choose.
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  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    810wmb wrote:
    i would keep the death penalty in place. have a prison where there are nothing BUT death row inmates. but the condition would be that they could and would be (somehow) be a self supporting prison...try to escape, the die the next day. no exceptions.

    i wouldn't drop the appeals process, but have a max number of times that it could be appealed. also (somehow) keep it from dragging out for 15 years before they fry.

    somehow keep the abuse of the system down. hey, don't ask how many or whatever, i don't know...you're the almost lawyer.

    if they get the penalty, the should die.

    fair enough. they have certain procedures designed to expedite appeals. they just don't work very well. a judge has scant reason to speed up a case where the guy is going nowhere anyway. they're already overworked with a huge backlog of cases.

    when it comes down to it, i just don't think the death penalty is worth the trouble it causes. life in prison keeps us just as safe and death penalty has been shown not to be an effective deterrent. so it's expensive, divisive, and puts us on a short list with some of the most reprehensible countries in the world (including iran). i see no benefit to keeping it, aside from a desire for vengeance which i don't think is good enough to outweigh the problems it causes.
    810wmb wrote:
    not to open up a can of worms (but i must) how many here that do not support the death penalty support abortion?

    eh, that's a bad question. it's not a contradiction, or if it is it's just as much a contradiction as pro-life, pro-death penalty. the people of your example don't believe a fetus is a life and thus not requiring the same protection as a potentially innocent condemned man. the latter group i mention believe life is sacred but if you fuck up bad enough we're allowed to kill you for it. so neither side wins on this one and it has no bearing on the capital punishment debate really. any combination of these opinions can be logically consistent. just depends on your base assumptions.

    i oppose capital punishment chiefly on financial and practicality grounds. i support abortion on the same grounds. im not in the business of making my moral judgment calls national law.
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    catefrances wrote:
    i support a woman's right to choose.

    oh shit, here we go. start your own damn thread ;)
  • catefrances
    catefrances Posts: 29,003
    soulsinging wrote:
    oh shit, here we go. start your own damn thread ;)


    ah shut up. :p he asked, i answered.
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  • 810wmb
    810wmb Posts: 849
    soulsinging wrote:
    i oppose capital punishment chiefly on financial and practicality grounds. i support abortion on the same grounds. im not in the business of making my moral judgment calls national law.

    common ground on the capital punishment, different ways to go about it.

    as for the abortion, you may not be in the biz of making moral judgment calls national law..a bunch are. it's how it got changed in the 1st place. (prayer in sch, etc)
    i'm the meat, yer not...signed Capt Asshat
  • soulsinging
    soulsinging Posts: 13,202
    810wmb wrote:
    common ground on the capital punishment, different ways to go about it.

    as for the abortion, you may not be in the biz of making moral judgment calls national law..a bunch are. it's how it got changed in the 1st place. (prayer in sch, etc)

    fair enough, though i think if you looked more closely the financial aspect falls on my side. as to practicality... that one is inherently kind of subjective, so to each their own.

    on the second point, neutrality is not a moral judgment call. saying a christian prayer in a public school is making a moral judgment call... implying to kids "to belong you must be christian." not saying a christian prayer in a public school is not making a moral judgment call... it does not say anything other than "everyone that wants to pray to any god can do so at home."

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