How about the inmates that have been on death row and have been acquitted because of improvements in forensic sciences. It would suck to have put that bullet in their skull only to find out later that they indeed where innocent.
It would indeed suck. And there have been countless cases where it was found that the executed was indeed innocent all along. America is a fucking disgrace as long as it continues this barbarity. Only China tops it with regard to snuffing out the lives of it's own citizens.
Anyone seriously interested in this subject should find a copy of Albert Camus' essay 'Reflections on the Guillotine'.
Also, I saw a documentary a few years ago about a man in the U.S who was executed in the U.S and who was later found to be innocent. Does anyone know the name of it?
I don't have time to find it right now, but has anyone heard of Anthony Ralls moral philosophy?
He basically asks that we don a lense of ignorance. That is, we know nothing of ourselves or our place in society. Then we must choose from the options of social policy. In this case death penalty. All we know is that after choosing we will be placed somewhere in the system. So we don't know if we will be a criminal or not, and we must choose from this ignorance.
In this case, if you are for capital punishment, you have to accept that you might be placed into society as a criminal and suffer the punishment yourself. It's a thought experiment of course, and I don't expect everyone to get the point of it. The point essentially is to forget about your place in society while making the moral decision.
I think the original purpose was to choose between communism and capitalism. But it might serve us well to imagine ourselves being criminals for this moral issue.
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
Laws should be like clothes. They should be made to fit the people they serve.
Clarence Darrow
The world is made up for the most part of morons and natural tyrants, sure of themselves, strong in their own opinions, never doubting anything.
Clarence Darrow
I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
becos i wanted to see if you knew anything first. clearly you don't. there's a constitutional prohibition against someone being tried twice for the same crime. it is called double jeopardy. the various levels of courts were created by necessity. a system of local courts with no oversight could vastly abuse their power. thus there were appeals courts created to ensure that trial courts were not making mistakes or abusing their discretion. courts of last resort (eg. the supreme court) are meant to resolve any grey areas or confusion in written law by interpreting them and telling the lower courts how to apply it to difficult cases.
the system is built on american ideals... namely distrust of consolidated power. the framers were much more afraid of the potential for government abuse, therefore, the system was created to ensure that does not happen. which is why criminals get appeals processes... to make sure they aren't tried and executed based on local prejudices (think salem witch trials or 'to kill a mocking bird'... assuming you can read it) rather than on actually breaking the law. the government can only bring charges once... to ensure that government officials can't harass citizens by constantly bringing them to trial despite being unable to prove anything (think joe mccarthy and communism).
but im sure you knew all this. you've evinced such a clear understanding of the issues here.
i do understand your point of view, of course i wouldn't want an innocent human being to be killed. thats why before putting them on death row the government has got to do some serious checks, and use a lie detector!
So you're all for state sanctioned, clinical murder then?
i don't feel the least bit sorry when a murdering thug gets executed. no remorse or guilt at all. When they fried tim mcveigh it didnt bring any tears to my eyes. One less asshole on Earth. Does that make me a barbarian?
Just as long as you can console yourself with labeling a person 'a murdering thug', then you'll be o.k.
It's when you look at the whole person - their childhood, the life they've lived, the circumstances of their crime - that you may have a problem.
but you never know.....and if you think that just one innocent person might slip through..is it worth it.
several hundred Americans on death row have been proven innocent and released...happens all the time........
And many were proven innocent too late.
Again, there's a great documentary out there somewhere - if anyone knows it's name, let me know. I saw it a few years back. I think it's been banned in the U.S - like most things that threaten U.S power interests - Noam Chomsky's 'Manufacturing consent' documentary, and a documentary on the U.S invasion of Panama, for example.
Anyway, it tells the story of how the documentary maker followed the trial, and eventual execution, of a fella who was later proven to be innocent. I think the documentary maker was British. Anyway, it was a great film. I just can't remember the name of it.
So you're all for state sanctioned, clinical murder then?
not anymore, my dear. not anymore. i still find it hard to believe that to kill someone costs more, but if it does then i want every single fucker on a death row to live.
not anymore, my dear. not anymore. i still find it hard to believe that to kill someone costs more, but if it does then i want every single fucker on a death row to live.
i can not believe you are basing your decision on financial concerns. this is a moral issue not a financial one.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I shouldn't get into this though. Everyone likes their self-serving paradigms.
As someone in here said before person can kill in self-defence.
Person can kill for money.
Person with mental problem, can kill for sexual gratification. Majority of those people are men, and do it for the majority of time not to just get pleasure of having sex but also to get even higher kick out of knowing that they have full control over other person, and that they're the ones who decide whether their victim should live or die.
And then there is a pack mentality. I'm always scared to walk around teenagers my age in large groups. Why? Because there were so many times when one of those cocky bastards in the group or few who get want to show how fucking cool/tough they are, and get the respect from everyone else in their pathetic little delinquent group. So what does he/she do?? they attack innocent person.And then ofcourse everyone else in their group joins in. To get kicks out of it.
and that's about it for now, i can't think of anything else
i can not believe you are basing your decision on financial concerns. this is a moral issue not a financial one.
Exactly what I was thinking earlier. It should be an ethical debate, not one about the most cost-effective way to manage crime, but as soulsinging said, the bottom line in the US is always the bottom line. . . Its all about profit.
Still, I don't know how you can bicker about the cost to the taxpayer when the original article is talking about methods for dispatching prisoners, and implying that lethal injection is unethical because it might cause distress. What the fuck? Doesn't anyone else find it sickening that these fuckers can be concerned enough about human rights to want to avoid causing pain, while still thinking of ways to cause death? Execution by lethal injection just makes me sick to my stomach. Trying to find nicer ways to kill people. . . the concept is just so ridiculously fucked up.
It doesn't matter if you're male, female, or confused; black, white, brown, red, green, yellow; gay, lesbian; redneck cop, stoned; ugly; military style, doggy style; fat, rich or poor; vegetarian or cannibal; bum, hippie, virgin; famous or drunk-you're either an asshole or you're not!
Exactly what I was thinking earlier. It should be an ethical debate, not one about the most cost-effective way to manage crime, but as soulsinging said, the bottom line in the US is always the bottom line. . . Its all about profit.
Still, I don't know how you can bicker about the cost to the taxpayer when the original article is talking about methods for dispatching prisoners, and implying that lethal injection is unethical because it might cause distress. What the fuck? Doesn't anyone else find it sickening that these fuckers can be concerned enough about human rights to want to avoid causing pain, while still thinking of ways to cause death? Execution by lethal injection just makes me sick to my stomach. Trying to find nicer ways to kill people. . . the concept is just so ridiculously fucked up.
its just like going to sleep scott. what could be more humane than that? :rolleyes: why don't they just wait until the prisoner actually does go to sleep and then jab him with the needle. that way he'll never know what hit him.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
its just like going to sleep scott. what could be more humane than that? :rolleyes: why don't they just wait until the prisoner actually does go to sleep and then jab him with the needle. that way he'll never know what hit him.
Exactly what I was thinking earlier. It should be an ethical debate, not one about the most cost-effective way to manage crime, but as soulsinging said, the bottom line in the US is always the bottom line. . . Its all about profit.
Still, I don't know how you can bicker about the cost to the taxpayer when the original article is talking about methods for dispatching prisoners, and implying that lethal injection is unethical because it might cause distress. What the fuck? Doesn't anyone else find it sickening that these fuckers can be concerned enough about human rights to want to avoid causing pain, while still thinking of ways to cause death? Execution by lethal injection just makes me sick to my stomach. Trying to find nicer ways to kill people. . . the concept is just so ridiculously fucked up.
wait did you just call me a fucker?? world wouldn't be as diverse without people like me If there were no people like me, you wouldn't have to write this post would you? and then you'd be too happy and too bored, because everyone would agree with everything.
Murder the murderer! Right. So if capital punishment is a deterrent - which it isn't - then why are executions not broadcast live across the nation on prime time t.v?
Maybe they should be. Like the good old days of needing people to hang on the condemned legs to help his neck break. I am sure that anybody watching that live may change their views if they were thinking of committing a crime. You know the young and impressionable who see the music videos as a mentor.
its just like going to sleep scott. what could be more humane than that? :rolleyes: why don't they just wait until the prisoner actually does go to sleep and then jab him with the needle. that way he'll never know what hit him.
I am still curious as to what kind of doctor willfully chooses to take part in a lethal injection. I mean to me that would go completely against the fundamentals of the profession.
Maybe they should be. Like the good old days of needing people to hang on the condemned legs to help his neck break. I am sure that anybody watching that live may change their views if they were thinking of committing a crime. You know the young and impressionable who see the music videos as a mentor.
it does seem to be rather barbaric to display such graphic things on tv, and i'm not sure whether good old days, have actually been good.
it does seem to be rather barbaric to display such graphic things on tv, and i'm not sure whether good old days, have actually been good.
but you are strong-minded, i like you
The different opinions on here, is the needle in my arm that keeps my working day moving on. If we all agreed it would be a boring place to come and read.
Again, there's a great documentary out there somewhere - if anyone knows it's name, let me know. I saw it a few years back. I think it's been banned in the U.S - like most things that threaten U.S power interests - Noam Chomsky's 'Manufacturing consent' documentary, and a documentary on the U.S invasion of Panama, for example.
Anyway, it tells the story of how the documentary maker followed the trial, and eventual execution, of a fella who was later proven to be innocent. I think the documentary maker was British. Anyway, it was a great film. I just can't remember the name of it.
Anyone seriously interested in this subject should find a copy of Albert Camus' essay 'Reflections on the Guillotine'.
Also, I saw a documentary a few years ago about a man in the U.S who was executed in the U.S and who was later found to be innocent. Does anyone know the name of it?
I know the one you're referring to. It was top 5 in one of Channel 4 Greatest Documentaries list I saw a few weeks ago... cannot remember the title, though, sorry. I remember it struck me so much I wanted to watch it - I had never heard of it. They showed clips of the defense lawyer, and the film-maker saying good-bye to the man, just before leaving, coming off the camera and leaving impartiality behind.
Sadly, I am really bad with names.
Let me check the site though...
Sorry cannot find anything!
This links to the BFI site and its documentary season but it's not listed there.
Comments
So you're something of a humanitarian then?
It would indeed suck. And there have been countless cases where it was found that the executed was indeed innocent all along. America is a fucking disgrace as long as it continues this barbarity. Only China tops it with regard to snuffing out the lives of it's own citizens.
Also, I saw a documentary a few years ago about a man in the U.S who was executed in the U.S and who was later found to be innocent. Does anyone know the name of it?
He basically asks that we don a lense of ignorance. That is, we know nothing of ourselves or our place in society. Then we must choose from the options of social policy. In this case death penalty. All we know is that after choosing we will be placed somewhere in the system. So we don't know if we will be a criminal or not, and we must choose from this ignorance.
In this case, if you are for capital punishment, you have to accept that you might be placed into society as a criminal and suffer the punishment yourself. It's a thought experiment of course, and I don't expect everyone to get the point of it. The point essentially is to forget about your place in society while making the moral decision.
I think the original purpose was to choose between communism and capitalism. But it might serve us well to imagine ourselves being criminals for this moral issue.
You'd prefer the land of barbarism and lynching would ya?
Clarence Darrow
The world is made up for the most part of morons and natural tyrants, sure of themselves, strong in their own opinions, never doubting anything.
Clarence Darrow
That's right, mistakes happen everyday - including murders. Not all killings are pre-meditated and calculated - unlike those sanctioned by the state.
You're not just a pretty face are ya?
One minute I hate ya, the next I love ya.
Maybe we should get married?
So you're all for state sanctioned, clinical murder then?
Just as long as you can console yourself with labeling a person 'a murdering thug', then you'll be o.k.
It's when you look at the whole person - their childhood, the life they've lived, the circumstances of their crime - that you may have a problem.
And many were proven innocent too late.
Again, there's a great documentary out there somewhere - if anyone knows it's name, let me know. I saw it a few years back. I think it's been banned in the U.S - like most things that threaten U.S power interests - Noam Chomsky's 'Manufacturing consent' documentary, and a documentary on the U.S invasion of Panama, for example.
Anyway, it tells the story of how the documentary maker followed the trial, and eventual execution, of a fella who was later proven to be innocent. I think the documentary maker was British. Anyway, it was a great film. I just can't remember the name of it.
not anymore, my dear. not anymore. i still find it hard to believe that to kill someone costs more, but if it does then i want every single fucker on a death row to live.
i can not believe you are basing your decision on financial concerns. this is a moral issue not a financial one.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
As someone in here said before person can kill in self-defence.
Person can kill for money.
Person with mental problem, can kill for sexual gratification. Majority of those people are men, and do it for the majority of time not to just get pleasure of having sex but also to get even higher kick out of knowing that they have full control over other person, and that they're the ones who decide whether their victim should live or die.
And then there is a pack mentality. I'm always scared to walk around teenagers my age in large groups. Why? Because there were so many times when one of those cocky bastards in the group or few who get want to show how fucking cool/tough they are, and get the respect from everyone else in their pathetic little delinquent group. So what does he/she do?? they attack innocent person.And then ofcourse everyone else in their group joins in. To get kicks out of it.
and that's about it for now, i can't think of anything else
i don't care, if my taxes are going to reduce or get spent on something more useful ( like better schools, better hospitals etc ) i'm all up for that.
wow. okay then.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
did i ever say i was a good person throughout? i have my dark sides too
and this is one of them.
ha! preaching to the choir sister.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Exactly what I was thinking earlier. It should be an ethical debate, not one about the most cost-effective way to manage crime, but as soulsinging said, the bottom line in the US is always the bottom line. . . Its all about profit.
Still, I don't know how you can bicker about the cost to the taxpayer when the original article is talking about methods for dispatching prisoners, and implying that lethal injection is unethical because it might cause distress. What the fuck? Doesn't anyone else find it sickening that these fuckers can be concerned enough about human rights to want to avoid causing pain, while still thinking of ways to cause death? Execution by lethal injection just makes me sick to my stomach. Trying to find nicer ways to kill people. . . the concept is just so ridiculously fucked up.
-C Addison
its just like going to sleep scott. what could be more humane than that? :rolleyes: why don't they just wait until the prisoner actually does go to sleep and then jab him with the needle. that way he'll never know what hit him.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
and a pretty good sarcasm
wait did you just call me a fucker??
Don't have a hand, you only have one more chance to steal. Kind of makes things easy.
Maybe they should be. Like the good old days of needing people to hang on the condemned legs to help his neck break. I am sure that anybody watching that live may change their views if they were thinking of committing a crime. You know the young and impressionable who see the music videos as a mentor.
I am still curious as to what kind of doctor willfully chooses to take part in a lethal injection. I mean to me that would go completely against the fundamentals of the profession.
it does seem to be rather barbaric to display such graphic things on tv, and i'm not sure whether good old days, have actually been good.
but you are strong-minded, i like you
The different opinions on here, is the needle in my arm that keeps my working day moving on. If we all agreed it would be a boring place to come and read.
banned? or nobody will release it?
I know the one you're referring to. It was top 5 in one of Channel 4 Greatest Documentaries list I saw a few weeks ago... cannot remember the title, though, sorry. I remember it struck me so much I wanted to watch it - I had never heard of it. They showed clips of the defense lawyer, and the film-maker saying good-bye to the man, just before leaving, coming off the camera and leaving impartiality behind.
Sadly, I am really bad with names.
Let me check the site though...
Sorry cannot find anything!
This links to the BFI site and its documentary season but it's not listed there.
http://www.channel4.com/blogs/page/fourdocs?entry=can_documentaries_change_the_world