So I just watched SiCKO...

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  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    1970RR wrote:
    Maybe create tax free Health Savings Accounts and make participation mandatory. Mandate a certain percentage of salary that must be deposited, but otherwise employees are free to up the contribution and have complete control over where to invest the money. As a back up, institute mandatory catastophic insurance to cover serious injury & illness, similar to car insurance.

    In concept, I agree, but I'm not really into holding people's hands and forcing them to do things. If their health isn't important enough to contribute to an HSA, then that's their problem.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • 1970RR
    1970RR Posts: 281
    know1 wrote:
    In concept, I agree, but I'm not really into holding people's hands and forcing them to do things. If their health isn't important enough to contribute to an HSA, then that's their problem.
    I agree. That was more of an accomodation to make the overall idea more palatable.
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    know1 wrote:
    That's the point. Do you think anyone's going to go to the doctor for a stomach ache if it costs them that much? So is a doctor going to look out at an empty waiting room, or is she going to try to lower the costs so that she can at least bring in some money?

    Also, think about those premiums paid by your work. What if insurance didn't exist and they gave that money to you in higher salaries. Then you might have more to spend on preventative care if you were responsible.

    Remember - we're all paying for healthcare now. It's just that it doesn't seem like it as it's withdrawn automatically from our pay and spread out over time.

    I think some eyes would be opened if your employer actually gave you the money and made you pay the health insurance premiums (which does happen in some small companies.

    I see where you are coming from, and I agree... I just think that there are A LOT of people out there who wouldn't plan ahead and then would finally go to the doctor at the last resort and that treatment would cost much more then if they went at the beginning. Then who pays if the person can't afford it? or would they even be treated if the doc knows he/she won't ever see payment for it? There would have to be some sort of safety net and we (taxpayers) would end up paying for it anyway.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    blackredyellow wrote:
    I see where you are coming from, and I agree... I just think that there are A LOT of people out there who wouldn't plan ahead and then would finally go to the doctor at the last resort and that treatment would cost much more then if they went at the beginning. Then who pays if the person can't afford it? or would they even be treated if the doc knows he/she won't ever see payment for it? There would have to be some sort of safety net and we (taxpayers) would end up paying for it anyway.

    Sad, but true. It's shameful that people that people can't be responsible, but they'll never start being responsible until they have to face some consequences.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    chopitdown wrote:
    are you trying to say the government has a terrible track record with success after they take over something?? ;)

    IMO, the problem is with the lying, greedy people we put in office, not the system itself. The system can be used much more efficiently by people who actually have an interest in working for the people... not just the rich ones who buy them off. And the ones that would actually make great leaders are called 'long shots' and 'vanity candidates'. :rolleyes:
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Gremmie95
    Gremmie95 Posts: 749
    RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:
    Sicko was excellent.

    I feel sorry for those born and living in the US at the moment....no doubt about...100% it HAS to change. US citizens are getting so screwed... seriously though it's criminal... and rotten from the inside out...literally....


    Your sorry for those born and living in the US? Gee, thanks for your sympathy but somehow I don't think I need it.
  • chopitdown
    chopitdown Posts: 2,222
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    IMO, the problem is with the lying, greedy people we put in office, not the system itself. The system can be used much more efficiently by people who actually have an interest in working for the people... not just the rich ones who buy them off. And the ones that would actually make great leaders are called 'long shots' and 'vanity candidates'. :rolleyes:

    i agree with you wholeheartedly. We need to change it, and in theory we do need people who have an interest in working for the people, but politics breeds power and power breeds corruption. Maybe if we limited the length of time people could be in politics and limited the money they could make and limited the money influence we could make it more ideal. You have too many people in congress and the government that think they have all the answers and their ideas are great but in reality they are terrible in practice.
    make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
  • RolandTD20Kdrummer
    RolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Gremmie95 wrote:
    Your sorry for those born and living in the US? Gee, thanks for your sympathy but somehow I don't think I need it.

    You fucking Sicko....
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

    (\__/)
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  • Songburst
    Songburst Posts: 1,195
    Gremmie95 wrote:
    Your sorry for those born and living in the US? Gee, thanks for your sympathy but somehow I don't think I need it.

    Yet.
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • mbangel10
    mbangel10 Posts: 548
    http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=9906

    I found this interview with Michael Moore pretty interesting.
    Pitt 98, Pitt 00, Cleveland 03, Pitt 03, State College 03, Toledo 04, Toronto 05, Pitt 05, Cleveland 06, Pitt 06 & Chicago 07, Chicago 1&2 09, Philly 2,3,4 09, Cleveland 10, Columbus 10, Alpine Valley 1& 2 11
  • freedomboy
    freedomboy Posts: 129
    chopitdown wrote:
    I do want to see this movie, which is something I never thought i'd say about MM; what I'd like to know is does he offer ideas on how to change it or is it just a bitch fest about healthcare? I honestly don't think the country can survive funding for universal healthcare w/o drastic changes in a lot of different areas. While universal healthcare is attractive I think, depending on how it is implemented, that it may make the divide b/t the upper and lower / middle class even more pronounced.


    Actually, the movie is about the solution... Most of the movie is about him going to other countries and seeing what they have done right... but really it gives an good overall education on what our health care system really is... Very little is about how bad our health care is.
    Freedom is a state of mind...
  • jeffbr
    jeffbr Seattle Posts: 7,177
    Songburst wrote:
    Yet.

    Ever.
    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • ThumbingMyWay32
    ThumbingMyWay32 Posts: 1,224
    jeffbr wrote:
    Ever.

    Period.
    "Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"

    "What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."

    Camden 5-28-06
    Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    jeffbr wrote:
    Ever.


    least not the ones with the money to buy the best healthcare, that is.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • ThumbingMyWay32
    ThumbingMyWay32 Posts: 1,224
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    least not the ones with the money to buy the best healthcare, that is.


    Does your company not provide your healthcare for you Abook?

    Do you work?

    You know what, I don't even want to talk to you. Forget I said anything.
    "Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"

    "What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."

    Camden 5-28-06
    Washington, D.C. 6-22-08
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:
    Does your company not provide your healthcare for you Abook?

    Do you work?

    You know what, I don't even want to talk to you. Forget I said anything.


    Awesome
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • my2hands
    my2hands Posts: 17,117
    ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:
    Does your company not provide your healthcare for you Abook?

    Do you work?

    You know what, I don't even want to talk to you. Forget I said anything.

    do you suck tail pipes for kicks or what chief? :rolleyes:
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    genevieve wrote:
    Wish I had an answer for you.
    But Im lucky enough to live in Canada.

    There is no reason you dont have better health care..


    stopped reading there...

    if you canucks have "better" health care, why are you flooding Buffalo's and Cleveland's hospitals?

    Answer: Government couldn't wipe their own ass efficiently...

    keep health care "corporate' (i.e. free)
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    least not the ones with the money to buy the best healthcare, that is.

    in some quarters, that's hate speech :)

    our system is set up so that the least able to pay have the best care, seriously, come to NY!

    again, name an effective government program, then i'll (most Americans) will start to believe.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • ThumbingMyWay32
    ThumbingMyWay32 Posts: 1,224
    my2hands wrote:
    do you suck tail pipes for kicks or what chief? :rolleyes:


    No, I've just been in enough conversations to have finally learned its best to ignore Abook. Even though I've been away for 4 months and he couldn't afford me the same favor in another thread.

    I have a tendency to throw sarcastic comments on the table that apparently offend him rather often. Sometimes I think it offends him every time I let one out because he responds to every one. Even when I'm talking to some one else, like you for instance. Every time we talk it's just a bunch of periods and letters...

    I'm afraid..... You wouldn't understand. Plus, because of those little zingers I like to throw out from time to time he's been rather generous in his assumptions that I never have anything substantive to say. There within lies my propensity to avoid these forums. It's like talking to a box full of carbon copies.

    But anyway, no, I don't suck tail pipes.
    "Sarcasm: intellect on the offensive"

    "What I lack in decorum, I make up for with an absence of tact."

    Camden 5-28-06
    Washington, D.C. 6-22-08

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