The Moving Train Is Pointless

angelica · January 2007

inmytree wrote:

I really don't want to say...it would not be helpful...I should have kept my thoughts to myself..I do think some do come here just to prick people off, but that's my opinion and others may not see it that way, therefore, I think naming names would not be good...I also don't want to come off like I'm perfect...I add to the problem, too....by responding rathering than ingoring...

if that makes any sense...

Okay, I see your point. I didn't mean to put you on the spot. Obviously it's my own personal "troll-past" that brings my issues to light.

angelica · January 2007

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

trolling commentary perhaps....perhaps a hint of clarity in there as well. The Moving bowel still fits aptly in my rolodex and I'm keeping it :P

Not to center in specifically here on the MB, but this medium of communication has a tendency to move people towards neurotic locales within the mind outside of normal human interaction.

there's good and bad in that... unfortunately the intended theme here on MB brings out the dark side of many...

intellect without humor is sadness...

Okay, and as much as I'm loathe to call someone a troll, you did provide a very obvious example given the discussion and your place in it. But again, you are proving my point--trolls have intents and purposes too! Okay, and I'll officially stop calling you a troll now.

decides2dream · January 2007

inmytree wrote:

see, this is what I like about this place...a real discussion...I have to adimt, I was incorrect in simply blaming one side, and you pointed it out in a clear, rational way...thanks d2d...

NMyTree wrote:

The thread starter and this thread is pointless.

now that's just not nice...and exactly what we're talking about. if it doesn't add to the actual discussion, what's the point? and ya know i enjoy your posts....hello btw, been a long time, but really? the thread-starter posted his point of view on a topic. one may agree, disagree...anything inbetween......but to say him or his thread, pointless...well then, just as pointless to respond then? wouldn't it be a better 'point' simply not to participate then? just askin'........;)

Byrnzie wrote:

Anyone else find this suspicious? Are the Mods sleeping?

what do you want them to do? they don't usually ban people for a new name...not the first time anyway. i believe they believe in 2nd chances. and most get numerous suspensions before permanent bannings, or so it seems, so yea...if they are actually at the point of a new name...perhaps the mod hope that's enough for them to follow forum guidelines? and in time, if they don't...i guess they get the 'big ban'...haha.

anyway, seriously, it's been said numerous times before...the mods don't read every thread, every post. i am sure they do read a bit...but i think the rest, they rely on people pointing out problem posts....and may, or may not, act on that at their discretion. so yea, the atmospere of this board is very much in our hands.

again, just sayin'.....

edit b/c i cannot type.

angelica · January 2007

cutback wrote:

Just to answer your question

http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=4112079&postcount=45

This post did nothing to further the discussion and only started a pointless back and forth.

CorporateWhore is exactly the type of person I refer to. I believe he meant what he said. I believe that while being dysfunctional, he really believed what he was saying and he believed in his methods. There was no "back and forth". His points were shown as completely invalid in my response to him, and he dropped it completely. To me, that's 100% valid conversation. Later Last Exodus picked up on another point regarding my response, due to a communication issue and that also got resolved. That's a debate between people who are heated and not in charge of their emotions.

Again, I am against using social shaming, judging and ostracisation as methods of getting people to walk "appropriate" lines. Because I know what it is to be the outsider.

angelica · January 2007

NMyTree wrote:

Seriously, that made me hot for you:D:D

You might try the Collective Soul board, then! Some of my stuff over there oughtta really fire you up!

Oh and their board comes with gratuitous pornography, too!

norm · January 2007

angelica wrote:

CorporateWhore is exactly the type of person I refer to. I believe he meant what he said. I believe that while being dysfunctional, he really believed what he was saying and he believed in his methods. There was no "back and forth". His points were shown as completely invalid in my response to him, and he dropped it completely. To me, that's 100% valid conversation. Later Last Exodus picked up on another point regarding my response, due to a communication issue and that also got resolved. That's a debate between people who are heated and not in charge of their emotions.

Again, I am against using social shaming, judging and ostracisation as methods of getting people to walk "appropriate" lines. Because I know what it is to be the outsider.

You consider this

CorporateWhore wrote:

Stop crying and go have some tea and crumpets.

intelligent discourse? I find it childish and unnecessary.

angelica · January 2007

cutback wrote:

You consider this

intelligent discourse? I find it childish and unnecessary.

I said it was dysfunctional. It is childish, and it's definitely unnecessary. His view was distorted. He was misinterpreting the subject matter and blaming it on someone else. I had no doubt he believed he was right.

The overwhelming majority on this board loses their cool fairly regularly, or uses a posting style that relies on internet sarcarsm and obnoxiousness. If that's trolling, than most of us are guilty. And that's why I wanted to address this issue.

decides2dream · January 2007

angelica wrote:

Again, I am against using social shaming, judging and ostracisation as methods of getting people to walk "appropriate" lines. Because I know what it is to be the outsider.

it is not social shaming, nor judging, to simply ignore threads/posts that one may perosnally deem inflammatory. it may be to some degree ostracization, but then again, it is the post or particular thread one is ostracizing, not the poster him/her self...unless of course EVERY post by the poster you deem as such, which basically simply means you don't find personal value there. not really a judgment, but more along the lines of finding people who 'fit' with you...not your own views per se...but an approach. i am sure there are others who would 'fit'...and it's not meant to be a societal, or board, ostracization. it's almost like making friends. you don't have to think alike....but you all have to think each in the friendship, or here - in the discussion - brings something of value to the table. it's not about 'appropriate lines'...altho there ARE appropriate lines to some degree since we all agreed to follow forum rules, a moderated forum, etc. it is simply choosing what to participate in, or not.

to quote ed:
if you hate something, don't you do it to.

seems a fair way to go about things.

angelica · January 2007

decides2dream wrote:

it is not social shaming, nor judging, to simply ignore threads/posts that one may perosnally deem inflammatory. it may be to some degree ostracization, but then again, it is the post or particular thread one is ostracizing, not the poster him/her self...unless of course EVERY post by the poster you deem as such, which basically simply means you don't find personal value there. not really a judgment, but more along the lines of finding people who 'fit' with you...not your own views per se...but an approach. i am sure there are others who would 'fit'...and it's not meant to be a societal, or board, ostracization. it's almost like making friends. you don't have to think alike....but you all have to think each in the friendship, or here - in the discussion - brings something of value to the table. it's not about 'appropriate lines'...altho there ARE appropriate lines to some degree since we all agreed to follow forum rules, a moderated forum, etc. it is simply choosing what to participate in, or not.

to quote ed:
if you hate something, don't you do it to.

seems a fair way to go about things.

I'm all for looking the other way, and away from what one is repelled by. I ignore people out here all the time.

What I'm against is calling people out as trolls. That to me is public shaming. I see it as calling people out seeing them from our own perspective, and lacking the empathy in understanding what their point of view might be.

And I totally agree with Ed.

norm · January 2007

angelica wrote:

I said it was dysfunctional. It is childish, and it's definitely unnecessary. His view was distorted. He was misinterpreting the subject matter and blaming it on someone else. I had no doubt he believed he was right.

The overwhelming majority on this board loses their cool fairly regularly, or uses a posting style that relies on internet sarcarsm and obnoxiousness. If that's trolling, than most of us are guilty. And that's why I wanted to address this issue.

Of course we all lose are cool from time to time. But there are some that it seems to me post inane stuff. And it's only to get a rise out of people. Some people's buttons are easy to push and a good troll will know that and pounce. I used CorpWhore's post (sorry dude, just trying to make my point) because if he had left the tea and crumpets line off the discussion may not have gone south (although it really didn't but I tried to find a quick example). Am I making any sense anymore?;)

NMyTree · January 2007

angelica wrote:

You might try the Collective Soul board, then! Some of my stuff over there oughtta really fire you up! Oh and their board comes with gratuitous pornography, too!

Actually, I like the music of Collective Soul. Good stuff. I saw them in Charlotte several years back, with Butch Walker's Marvelous 3. Great shows!

But I've never had the inclination to seek out one of their message boards. Still don't. LOL!

So I'll continue to hang out here and let you fire me up;)

Abuskedti · January 2007

I would have been nicer to ask, What is the point?

angelica · January 2007

cutback wrote:

Of course we all lose are cool from time to time. But there are some that it seems to me post inane stuff. And it's only to get a rise out of people. Some people's buttons are easy to push and a good troll will know that and pounce. I used CorpWhore's post (sorry dude, just trying to make my point) because if he had left the tea and crumpets line off the discussion may not have gone south (although it really didn't but I tried to find a quick example). Am I making any sense anymore?;)

To be honest, I was appalled by that specific CorpWhore post. It was demeaning and condescending, and I detest cultural slurs and low blows. For me, it "inspires" me all the more to reveal the fallacy of that type of view. That is key to me. When someone voluntarily steps so far into a delusional place, they make it very easy to show how off base they are.

Vedderlution_Baby · January 2007

Abuskedti wrote:

I would have been nicer to ask, What is the point?

I regretted the title shortly after i hit post. Everytime i see the title I'm thinking "Way to be a dick."

decides2dream · January 2007

angelica wrote:

I'm all for looking the other way, and away from what one is repelled by. I ignore people out here all the time.

What I'm against is calling people out as trolls. That to me is public shaming. I see it as calling people out seeing them from our own perspective, and lacking the empathy in understanding what their point of view might be.

And I totally agree with Ed.

well i don't call people out as trolls. i use it in discussion b/c it is simply an easy identifier for a type of behavior, usually undesirable. however, as much as many complain about the behavior..i think they also enjoy it to a dergree, otherwise why would they engage in discussion in such threads?

and while i agree with you about empathy...i don't feel the need to always show it. sure, for true misery...life events, etc...absolutely. but for an otherwise ok grown-up adult, not suffering any true 'hardship'...no, i don't find the need to empathize with their sad behavior. i might feel sorry to the degree that they need to 'act out' as an adult...as a way to get attention, but yea...i have no desire to engage in such, nor to empathize with such. call it dysfunctional, what have you....i still see it as a choice. we may be our personalities...but i think we can choose our behaviors to some degree, and for the rest...yes, i'll always be respectful/civil....but i don't have to be involved either. so yes, ignoring works for me.

RolandTD20Kdrummer · January 2007

Byrnzie wrote:

5 posts to your name and you're on here criticising the M.T and asking for it to be shut down?
Anyone else find this suspicious? Are the Mods sleeping?

Interesting how you formulate ideas. You may be familiar with the term lurking? Many people read posts but do not themselves post. Asking for something is very different from casually commenting on something. You may or may not want to reflect on why you have become apparently agitated by a bunch of pixels on your computer screen to the point that it made you accuse the site administrators of doing a poor job. They could probably use some support rather.

I find that all very odd how that works together inside someones mind.

norm · January 2007

angelica wrote:

To be honest, I was appalled by that specific CorpWhore post. It was demeaning and condescending, and I detest cultural slurs and low blows. For me, it "inspires" me all the more to reveal the fallacy of that type of view. That is key to me. When someone voluntarily steps so far into a delusional place, they make it very easy to show how off base they are.

Gotcha.

But personally, I don't have time to argue with people that aren't going to discuss things in an adult manner.

angelica · January 2007

NMyTree wrote:

Actually, I like the music of Collective Soul. Good stuff. I saw them in Charlotte several years back, with Butch Walker's Marvelous 3. Great shows!

But I've never had the inclination to seek out one of their message boards. Still don't. LOL!

So I'll continue to hang out here and let you fire me up;)

I'm so surprised that you like Collective Soul! I LOVE them. I was thrilled to meet them (minus the singer/songwriter, Ed) last year after a free concert (free tickets to the CS message boarders!) And one of the coolest experiences of my life was the first of two times I saw them last year. Ed Roland kept singing to me, which completely overwhelmed and floored me. Considering the song "Shine" coincided with my spiritual awakening years back, to have the singer of CS tap into me was literally one of the coolest experiences of my life.

I don't blame you for avoiding their board like the plague!

decides2dream · January 2007

cutback wrote:

Gotcha. But personally, I don't have time to argue with people that aren't going to discuss things in an adult manner.

agreed. and more importantly, we all agreed to abide by the basic guidelines of this particular board...and part of that is staying on thread topic. sure, we all meander from time to time, which in an interesting discussion is a good thing...many topic relate. however, when it completely derails into name-calling....or even calling out behaviors...getting into the 'whys' of one's posts, dysfunctional issues, whatever one wants to call it...etc...it ruins the thread, destroys the thread topic/integrity...etc. if one wants such, take it to PMs....otherwise, best to keep the truly personal comments out, or at least, within a post ON topic. if it isn't at all on the topic..it really IS pointless. this ain't no chatroom...this ain't no disco...this ain't no foolin' around.......;)

angelica · January 2007

decides2dream wrote:

well i don't call people out as trolls. i use it in discussion b/c it is simply an easy identifier for a type of behavior, usually undesirable. however, as much as many complain about the behavior..i think they also enjoy it to a dergree, otherwise why would they engage in discussion in such threads?

and while i agree with you about empathy...i don't feel the need to always show it. sure, for true misery...life events, etc...absolutely. but for an otherwise ok grown-up adult, not suffering any true 'hardship'...no, i don't find the need to empathize with their sad behavior. i might feel sorry to the degree that they need to 'act out' as an adult...as a way to get attention, but yea...i have no desire to engage in such, nor to empathize with such. call it dysfunctional, what have you....i still see it as a choice. we may be our personalities...but i think we can choose our behaviors to some degree, and for the rest...yes, i'll always be respectful/civil....but i don't have to be involved either. so yes, ignoring works for me.

I think each interaction out here is very purposeful and those we connect with are very meaningful, whether we use our connections to justify poor behaviour or whether we use them more positively. I agree that when people engage those they don't like, they have to take responsibility for their part.

I happen to tap into people empathically all the time, seeing where they are coming from. Because I understand doesn't mean I accept poor behaviour. But I've been in some very, very bad places in my life, and I'm willing to sometimes talk more to the underdogs than to those who are fine. And again, I definitely avoid some people myself.

Oh, and I keep forgetting:

The Moving Train Is Pointless

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