Religous Knuckleheads!

angelica · February 2007

Collin wrote:

What's a scientology test?

I've not personally taken one. My understanding is they will hook a person with an offer of a personality test of some sort in order to get you to go in. My ex-boyfriend was propositioned on the street once with this approach. But he turned them down because of his cult preconceptions about them. I've read about them doing this though. They apparently get you to realize you are "flawed" somehow as a way to encourage you to sign on for their programs.

soulsinging · February 2007

PJPOWER wrote:

And bashing them helps out with this how? When the fuck are people, religious or athiests, going to just live and let live............When Christians bash athiests, the athiests are going to think that the Christians are stupid and when the athiests bash the Christians, the Christians are going to think the athiests are the wrong ones...............Everyone just needs to stop acting like complete assholes and have a little empathy for everyone! Ignore the dumbasses that are extremists, they only represent themselves. I, personally, am a Christian. I have many friends who are athiests. That doesn't mean that I have to judge them constantly or even think that they are going to hell...............I don't believe something like that is something I have the power to judge. I believe what I believe........whether it's wrong or right in the end........It's like telling someone who is attracted to redheads that blondes are hotter. Different strokes for different folks.........why can't people understand that? As far as politics go...........If people can't seperate their religion from their politics...............then they shouldn't be in politics. Votes are won by telling the most voters what they want to hear, not necicarily by actually wanting what the voters want.

becos many christians will not just live and let live. they are lobbying the government to force everyone to live their way. "bashing" is not what's being done. discrediting the basis of their politics is what is happening. occasionally it goes too far and crosses into bashing, but only due to the frustration of trying to reason with people who are not open to discussion on anything. it's similar to the frustration christians feel about how their poor values are under attack (which is not true, or if it is, it is only a reactionary response to their trying first to force those values upon other people). your last sentence is spot on... religion should be separate from politics. which is why there is very vehement and vocal opposition to christians from the left... becos many christians do not understand this.

PJPOWER · February 2007

Collin wrote:

So how come you didn't ignore soulsinging? Because you felt like he said something untrue, because you felt like giving your opinion, your view?

Criticism isn't a bad thing, not all criticism is "bashing", imo.

I didn't say that all criticism is a bad thing............but to "bash" a persons belief saying things like "Christians are stupid" "Athiests are going to hell" that's what I have a problem with.

Collin · February 2007

angelica wrote:

I thought that like me, you would see what they mean to do, even if you disagree with it. That's why when you said: "I just don't understand why religious folks feel the need to bug the shit out of people." I was wondering about that.

If they come up to me and ask me if I want to know about Christ, fine, but do it respectfully. Don't go shouting someone will go to hell because he has earrings, that's what I meant with "bugging the shit out of someone."

edit: they should respect my wishing if I don't want to know how they feel about Christ.

I was actually referring to just seeing them trying to spread what they apparently think is a message of love, even when they are also capable of being judgmental, argumentative, and other non-loving things.

There are very little people of faith here and if they are they're not being open about it.

angelica · February 2007

PJPOWER wrote:

http://www.scientology.org/oca.htm

Wow. What a ploy. It's like the Hare Krishnas giving out "free" flowers at airports. It's a very base selling tactic that plays on human nature and the existing law of reciprocity. When we accept the "free" item, we are much more predisposed to reciprocate and somehow feel we owe them one. Especially a test that can cost 500 dollars! :rolleyes: We get hooked on some level.

I can't wait to take the test!

threecrookedhearts6 · February 2007

PJPOWER wrote:

And bashing them helps out with this how? When the fuck are people, religious or athiests, going to just live and let live............When Christians bash athiests, the athiests are going to think that the Christians are stupid and when the athiests bash the Christians, the Christians are going to think the athiests are the wrong ones...............Everyone just needs to stop acting like complete assholes and have a little empathy for everyone! Ignore the dumbasses that are extremists, they only represent themselves. I, personally, am a Christian. I have many friends who are athiests. That doesn't mean that I have to judge them constantly or even think that they are going to hell...............I don't believe something like that is something I have the power to judge. I believe what I believe........whether it's wrong or right in the end........It's like telling someone who is attracted to redheads that blondes are hotter. Different strokes for different folks.........why can't people understand that? As far as politics go...........If people can't seperate their religion from their politics...............then they shouldn't be in politics. Votes are won by telling the most voters what they want to hear, not necicarily by actually wanting what the voters want.

^^this is the most intelligent post ive seen in this whole thread^^

...im failing to understand why we go to such extremes to hate and belittle our fellow man or woman when in the end, it makes us look worse than the one we are criticizing. we waste time and energy that could be spent making the world a more accepting and tolerant place...after all this is the only planet we have and we must live together, so why not live peacefully?

hippiemom · February 2007

angelica wrote:

What??? We have scientologists in the street inviting us in to take their "tests"! And we have Jehovah's Witnesses going door to door (which I've personally witnessed in different towns, cities). They are very agressive. Not to mention Mormons, who I've personally had in my home, who are missionaries exported from your fine country*.

"the Jehovah's Witness organization ... denies the deity of Christ, His physical resurrection, and salvation by grace."
http://www.carm.org/jw/cult.htm (looks like hippiemom beat me to it!)

*"Historically, only until recently have Mormons wanted to be called Christians, preferring not to be included with Christian denominations, which Joseph Smith said were, "all wrong ... all their creeds were an admonition in his sight, and that those professors (Christians) were all corrupt"
http://cnview.com/on_line_resources/are_mormons_christian.htm

We have the Jehovahs and the Mormons going door to door, and yes, they are very persistent, but I've never laid eyes on a Scientologist.

PJPOWER · February 2007

soulsinging wrote:

becos many christians will not just live and let live. they are lobbying the government to force everyone to live their way. "bashing" is not what's being done. discrediting the basis of their politics is what is happening. occasionally it goes too far and crosses into bashing, but only due to the frustration of trying to reason with people who are not open to discussion on anything. it's similar to the frustration christians feel about how their poor values are under attack (which is not true, or if it is, it is only a reactionary response to their trying first to force those values upon other people). your last sentence is spot on... religion should be separate from politics. which is why there is very vehement and vocal opposition to christians from the left... becos many christians do not understand this.

I agree.........although I have to disagree with people on the left being free of these actions. Seems like Obama is having a hard time with fellow Democrats for this very reason. The argument umong democrats right now seems to be "Well, Obama was raised a Muslim, but he's professed that he's a Christian now, so he's okay"..........What the hell? lol

edit: That argument might be more solely due to what gets high media ratings than an actual issue between democrats.

soulsinging · February 2007

angelica wrote:

Wow. What a ploy. It's like the Hare Krishnas giving out "free" flowers at airports. It's a very base selling tactic that plays on human nature and the existing law of reciprocity. When we accept the "free" item, we are much more predisposed to reciprocate and somehow feel we owe them one. Especially a test that can cost 500 dollars! :rolleyes: We get hooked on some level.

I can't wait to take the test!

it demands my address and phone number and says i have to come into their center to have my results interpreted... no thanks

surferdude · February 2007

soulsinging wrote:

i never got the impression that the original poster said anything like that.

but it's like the david cross joke: "not all gay men have the lisp, but ONLY gay men have the lisp." similarly, not all christians randomly lecture or try to convert strangers on the street, but, in america, ONLY christians randomly lecture or try to convert strangers on the street. i have never in my entire life seen anyone do anything like that, except christians.

Fair point that I was missing until now. Point Connor.

soulsinging · February 2007

PJPOWER wrote:

I agree.........although I have to disagree with people on the left being free of these actions. Seems like Obama is having a hard time with fellow Democrats for this very reason. The argument umong democrats right now seems to be "Well, Obama was raised a Muslim, but he's professed that he's a Christian now, so he's okay"..........What the hell? lol

well, the left has to play along to an extent. becos of the right wing influence on politics, even candidates from the left have to publicly announce themselves as christians to avoid being torn to shreds in the south for being a heathen. it's why i will suddenly have a religious conversion and go back to the catholic church shortly before i enter politics

surferdude · February 2007

soulsinging wrote:

becos many christians will not just live and let live. they are lobbying the government to force everyone to live their way. "bashing" is not what's being done. discrediting the basis of their politics is what is happening. occasionally it goes too far and crosses into bashing, but only due to the frustration of trying to reason with people who are not open to discussion on anything. it's similar to the frustration christians feel about how their poor values are under attack (which is not true, or if it is, it is only a reactionary response to their trying first to force those values upon other people). your last sentence is spot on... religion should be separate from politics. which is why there is very vehement and vocal opposition to christians from the left... becos many christians do not understand this.

The horrors of a Christian exercising their democratic rights. How come it's bad when a Christian tries to use the democratic system to tell someone how to live but it's okay when an atheist does the same thing? Why the hypocracy? Because that's what all forms of government are about, telling people how to live.

All people are bound by the Constitution and Bill of Rights and divisions of power. I really don't care what people decide to get together and participate in the deomcratic process. I'm mostly just glad that they care enough to participate.

angelica · February 2007

soulsinging wrote:

it demands my address and phone number and says i have to come into their center to have my results interpreted... no thanks

I know! I just tried. How "free" is that?? It's a huge price when you consider that you psychologically open yourself to be hooked by those who are trained to get you to join. Each step that you take in moving towards them is one step down the slippery slope.

Although general salesmanship works the same way. I had a salesman in my home who was actually getting mad at me because I was not pulled in by his ploys. I had just read a book that week detailing all of them. He was so bothered that I was oblivious to his "tricks" that he was saying "what's wrong with you?" "have you had a bad life or something". He was there under the pretense of giving me some free insurance because my dad put me on the list to get it as a "benefit" because my dad is such a good customer. :rolleyes: When we arranged the appointment, I told him upfront I would not buy anything. He said "great, then it'll be a quick trip". I realized it was all a ploy, and I went through the process to humour my gullible dad. And I was really amazed to see it unfold as it did. The man got up 2 separate times, fuming, "pretending" to leave because he was so bothered. These are serious ploys that work like clockwork for them or it wouldn't have bothered him so much. I decided to refrain from doing that in the future for safety reasons. Maybe Christian witnesses could benefit from psychological training for their purposes.

angelica · February 2007

hippiemom wrote:

We have the Jehovahs and the Mormons going door to door, and yes, they are very persistent, but I've never laid eyes on a Scientologist.

I'm glad to know I'm not alone.

Do you have a scientology center in your city? Ours used to be on the main street of Kitchener, and a guy would stand outside and talk to people as they'd walk by, soliciting for the "test". They are probably more dangerous than the usual religious types due to their strong psychological awareness. So it's probably good that people are basically taught to fear them and consider them cult-like. Although obviously enough people manage to slip through awareness and into their net. And that's not to say that I disagree with many of their basic tenets. Some are based on the same kind of psychology that I've used to dramatically change my life. It's the manipulation that is not okay in my mind. Some people take issue with the alien overlords but hey, tomato/tomahto in terms of religious icons. We enable salesmen, though, so in the grand scheme of things, I say, what the heck.

angelica · February 2007

Collin wrote:

If they come up to me and ask me if I want to know about Christ, fine, but do it respectfully. Don't go shouting someone will go to hell because he has earrings, that's what I meant with "bugging the shit out of someone."

edit: they should respect my wishing if I don't want to know how they feel about Christ.

Okay, and I agree.

There are very little people of faith here and if they are they're not being open about it.

That's interesting. So when you were raised Christian, you were more of a minority, then? edit: or do you mean it's different in the town you are in than when you were growing up?

hippiemom · February 2007

angelica wrote:

I'm glad to know I'm not alone.

Do you have a scientology center in your city? Ours used to be on the main street of Kitchener, and a guy would stand outside and talk to people as they'd walk by, soliciting for the "test". They are probably more dangerous than the usual religious types due to their strong psychological awareness. So it's probably good that people are basically taught to fear them and consider them cult-like. Although obviously enough people manage to slip through awareness and into their net. And that's not to say that I disagree with many of their basic tenets. Some are based on the same kind of psychology that I've used to dramatically change my life. It's the manipulation that is not okay in my mind. Some people take issue with the alien overlords but hey, tomato/tomahto in terms of religious icons. We enable salesmen, though, so in the grand scheme of things, I say, what the heck.

No, according to the test site, I'd have to go to Columbus or Cincinnati. So I guess that's why I don't see them around. Would have been funny though ... I'm immune to sales techniques, I could probably make their little heads explode.

chopitdown · February 2007

angelica wrote:

I know! I just tried. How "free" is that??

TINSTAAFL

angelica · February 2007

chopitdown wrote:

TINSTAAFL

What does this mean?!?!

edit: I looked it up! "There isn't/aint no such thing as a free lunch". That's funny, I used to say that to my daughter years ago when she was a teenager who invested ridiculous energy in sponging off of all her friends, and trying to get free things whenever she could.

chopitdown · February 2007

angelica wrote:

What does this mean?!?!

edit: I looked it up! "There isn't/aint no such thing as a free lunch". That's funny, I used to say that to my daughter years ago when she was a teenager who invested ridiculous energy in sponging off of all her friends, and trying to get free things whenever she could.

it's about the only thing i remember from high school economics class

...that and buy low and sell high.

angelica · February 2007

chopitdown wrote:

it's about the only thing i remember from high school economics class ...that and buy low and sell high.

Religous Knuckleheads!

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