I agree.........although I have to disagree with people on the left being free of these actions. Seems like Obama is having a hard time with fellow Democrats for this very reason. The argument umong democrats right now seems to be "Well, Obama was raised a Muslim, but he's professed that he's a Christian now, so he's okay"..........What the hell? lol
well, the left has to play along to an extent. becos of the right wing influence on politics, even candidates from the left have to publicly announce themselves as christians to avoid being torn to shreds in the south for being a heathen. it's why i will suddenly have a religious conversion and go back to the catholic church shortly before i enter politics
becos many christians will not just live and let live. they are lobbying the government to force everyone to live their way. "bashing" is not what's being done. discrediting the basis of their politics is what is happening. occasionally it goes too far and crosses into bashing, but only due to the frustration of trying to reason with people who are not open to discussion on anything. it's similar to the frustration christians feel about how their poor values are under attack (which is not true, or if it is, it is only a reactionary response to their trying first to force those values upon other people). your last sentence is spot on... religion should be separate from politics. which is why there is very vehement and vocal opposition to christians from the left... becos many christians do not understand this.
The horrors of a Christian exercising their democratic rights. How come it's bad when a Christian tries to use the democratic system to tell someone how to live but it's okay when an atheist does the same thing? Why the hypocracy? Because that's what all forms of government are about, telling people how to live.
All people are bound by the Constitution and Bill of Rights and divisions of power. I really don't care what people decide to get together and participate in the deomcratic process. I'm mostly just glad that they care enough to participate.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
it demands my address and phone number and says i have to come into their center to have my results interpreted... no thanks
I know! I just tried. How "free" is that?? It's a huge price when you consider that you psychologically open yourself to be hooked by those who are trained to get you to join. Each step that you take in moving towards them is one step down the slippery slope.
Although general salesmanship works the same way. I had a salesman in my home who was actually getting mad at me because I was not pulled in by his ploys. I had just read a book that week detailing all of them. He was so bothered that I was oblivious to his "tricks" that he was saying "what's wrong with you?" "have you had a bad life or something". He was there under the pretense of giving me some free insurance because my dad put me on the list to get it as a "benefit" because my dad is such a good customer. :rolleyes: When we arranged the appointment, I told him upfront I would not buy anything. He said "great, then it'll be a quick trip". I realized it was all a ploy, and I went through the process to humour my gullible dad. And I was really amazed to see it unfold as it did. The man got up 2 separate times, fuming, "pretending" to leave because he was so bothered. These are serious ploys that work like clockwork for them or it wouldn't have bothered him so much. I decided to refrain from doing that in the future for safety reasons. Maybe Christian witnesses could benefit from psychological training for their purposes.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
We have the Jehovahs and the Mormons going door to door, and yes, they are very persistent, but I've never laid eyes on a Scientologist.
I'm glad to know I'm not alone.
Do you have a scientology center in your city? Ours used to be on the main street of Kitchener, and a guy would stand outside and talk to people as they'd walk by, soliciting for the "test". They are probably more dangerous than the usual religious types due to their strong psychological awareness. So it's probably good that people are basically taught to fear them and consider them cult-like. Although obviously enough people manage to slip through awareness and into their net. And that's not to say that I disagree with many of their basic tenets. Some are based on the same kind of psychology that I've used to dramatically change my life. It's the manipulation that is not okay in my mind. Some people take issue with the alien overlords but hey, tomato/tomahto in terms of religious icons. We enable salesmen, though, so in the grand scheme of things, I say, what the heck.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
If they come up to me and ask me if I want to know about Christ, fine, but do it respectfully. Don't go shouting someone will go to hell because he has earrings, that's what I meant with "bugging the shit out of someone."
edit: they should respect my wishing if I don't want to know how they feel about Christ.
Okay, and I agree.
There are very little people of faith here and if they are they're not being open about it.
That's interesting. So when you were raised Christian, you were more of a minority, then? edit: or do you mean it's different in the town you are in than when you were growing up?
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Do you have a scientology center in your city? Ours used to be on the main street of Kitchener, and a guy would stand outside and talk to people as they'd walk by, soliciting for the "test". They are probably more dangerous than the usual religious types due to their strong psychological awareness. So it's probably good that people are basically taught to fear them and consider them cult-like. Although obviously enough people manage to slip through awareness and into their net. And that's not to say that I disagree with many of their basic tenets. Some are based on the same kind of psychology that I've used to dramatically change my life. It's the manipulation that is not okay in my mind. Some people take issue with the alien overlords but hey, tomato/tomahto in terms of religious icons. We enable salesmen, though, so in the grand scheme of things, I say, what the heck.
No, according to the test site, I'd have to go to Columbus or Cincinnati. So I guess that's why I don't see them around. Would have been funny though ... I'm immune to sales techniques, I could probably make their little heads explode.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
edit: I looked it up! "There isn't/aint no such thing as a free lunch". That's funny, I used to say that to my daughter years ago when she was a teenager who invested ridiculous energy in sponging off of all her friends, and trying to get free things whenever she could.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
edit: I looked it up! "There isn't/aint no such thing as a free lunch". That's funny, I used to say that to my daughter years ago when she was a teenager who invested ridiculous energy in sponging off of all her friends, and trying to get free things whenever she could.
it's about the only thing i remember from high school economics class ...that and buy low and sell high.
make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
The horrors of a Christian exercising their democratic rights. How come it's bad when a Christian tries to use the democratic system to tell someone how to live but it's okay when an atheist does the same thing? Why the hypocracy? Because that's what all forms of government are about, telling people how to live.
All people are bound by the Constitution and Bill of Rights and divisions of power. I really don't care what people decide to get together and participate in the deomcratic process. I'm mostly just glad that they care enough to participate.
i covered this in another thread with you... actually, i believe it was about 2 pages ago. it's lazy, uninformed voting that enacts policies that are meaningless and distracts from pressing national issues. we dont talk about how a president plans to deal with our school system, out of control health care costs, economy, or national defense... becos we're too concerned with whether or not he will sign a gay marriage ban or how he feels about roe v wade (which he cant overturn anyway).
plus, i feel politicizing a religious message cheapens religion as a whole (as evidenced by the many negative reactions to christianity around here) and puts the focus less on personal, spiritual growth and development and more on telling other people how they should spiritually grow and develop. it's why i left the church: it was simply spiritually bankrupt anymore. it had become little more than a mouthpiece for political activism.
becos many christians will not just live and let live. they are lobbying the government to force everyone to live their way. "bashing" is not what's being done. discrediting the basis of their politics is what is happening. .
Oh, bull fucking shit. C'mon Souls. EVERY special interest group lobbies the government in an attempt to get what they want. Christian and "secular" alike. And most Christians do not try to try to force anyone to do anything. Look, i'm sorry you've had a few people witness to you a bit to aggressively. i really am. When are you going to stop stereotyping? Its nonsense, and if you don't see what goes on here as "bashing" then i think you're a bit blind.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Oh, bull fucking shit. C'mon Souls. EVERY special interest group lobbies the government in an attempt to get what they want. Christian and "secular" alike. And most Christians do not try to try to force anyone to do anything. Look, i'm sorry you've had a few people witness to you a bit to aggressively. i really am. When are you going to stop stereotyping? Its nonsense, and if you don't see what goes on here as "bashing" then i think you're a bit blind.
and i hate every special interest group out there. but this thread was about the christian ones. you want to start a thread about drug companies and pill-pushing, ill be first in line to tear pharamceutical companies apart for what they do and why they do it.
the danger of the religious group is it has a much larger built in electorate that will often be fooled into electing people on pretense without regard to the best interests of the public. most people wont get behind a drug company cos they dont give a shit and suspect there is a profit motive at work. but many people will line up to vote for an evangelical becos of abortion of homos and end up voting for someone who will ship jobs overseas and bankrupt our schools becos his true allegiance is to capitalist policies and religious rhetoric is just what he uses to get elected.
plus, like i said, i dont like seeing religion be dragged into the mud with the rest of this. it's supposed to be above petty mud-slinging politics.
and i hate every special interest group out there. but this thread was about the christian ones. you want to start a thread about drug companies and pill-pushing, ill be first in line to tear pharamceutical companies apart for what they do and why they do it.
the danger of the religious group is it has a much larger built in electorate that will often be fooled into electing people on pretense without regard to the best interests of the public. most people wont get behind a drug company cos they dont give a shit and suspect there is a profit motive at work. but many people will line up to vote for an evangelical becos of abortion of homos and end up voting for someone who will ship jobs overseas and bankrupt our schools becos his true allegiance is to capitalist policies and religious rhetoric is just what he uses to get elected.
plus, like i said, i dont like seeing religion be dragged into the mud with the rest of this. it's supposed to be above petty mud-slinging politics.
The "Religious Right" really isn't as large as you seem to think. That being said i agree those that make up the religious right are easily fooled to voting for stupid candidates. That really isn't my point. i also agree that they drag faith through the mud a little bit. First of all that doesn't make it justified for people to come on a message board where they know they are safe and the vast majority of posters will stroke their metaphorical weenie in agreement when they lump everyone who claims Christian faith under the same banner, refer to them as stupid, brainwashed etc. and then say "no, its not bashing". Please.
Secondly Religious folks and people of faith are going to vote their values. Who are you to tell them they are wrong to do so. Do you vote yours? As a person of faith, you damn well better bet that i'll be voting mine. It just so happens that those "religiously" inspired values primarily involve, poverty, war (peace actually), and the environment.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
and i hate every special interest group out there. but this thread was about the christian ones. you want to start a thread about drug companies and pill-pushing, ill be first in line to tear pharamceutical companies apart for what they do and why they do it.
the danger of the religious group is it has a much larger built in electorate that will often be fooled into electing people on pretense without regard to the best interests of the public. most people wont get behind a drug company cos they dont give a shit and suspect there is a profit motive at work. but many people will line up to vote for an evangelical becos of abortion of homos and end up voting for someone who will ship jobs overseas and bankrupt our schools becos his true allegiance is to capitalist policies and religious rhetoric is just what he uses to get elected.
plus, like i said, i dont like seeing religion be dragged into the mud with the rest of this. it's supposed to be above petty mud-slinging politics.
The issue of whether or not abortion is right or wrong stretches somewhat beyond religion. Do you not think that the opposite could be said if that majority of people believed smoking meth was a good thing? If the hypothetical "meth group" was large enough to win an election for a candidate, I assure you that there would be someone supporting it without regard to what is in the public's best interest. That's a little far fetched, but it's true. Politics aren't bound by religion............Religion just, as it turns out, is a big issue umong voters. There is no possible way for politicians to cater to everyone and their different beliefs, morals, values, etc. So what do they do? They cater to the majority............or whoever will get them elected. Don't be fooled at this point with either side of the debate actually weighs right and wrong (morals) as a solid stance of a party. There are probably honest individuals who believe in good and campaign alone with the pure heart believing that they can help everyone...............but they undoubtably lose. You can't cater to everyone's needs in a country that is not total theocracy where everyone believes in the same thing. The minority or unpopular idealists will lose.........whether their right or wrong. It's a popularity contest just like it was back in the high school days. Who's going to win for class president; the person calling for soda and hamburgers, or the one calling for soymilk and vegetables? That's just reality.........it will be hard to change that at this point and with the direction the two major parties in this country are heading.
The "Religious Right" really isn't as large as you seem to think. That being said i agree those that make up the religious right are easily fooled to voting for stupid candidates. That really isn't my point. i also agree that they drag faith through the mud a little bit. First of all that doesn't make it justified for people to come on a message board where they know they are safe and the vast majority of posters will stroke their metaphorical weenie in agreement when they lump everyone who claims Christian faith under the same banner, refer to them as stupid, brainwashed etc. and then say "no, its not bashing". Please.
Secondly Religious folks and people of faith are going to vote their values. Who are you to tell them they are wrong to do so. Do you vote yours? As a person of faith, you damn well better bet that i'll be voting mine. It just so happens that those "religiously" inspired values primarily involve, poverty, war (peace actually), and the environment.
where did i say christians were all stupid or brainwashed? funny how you would consider yourself justified in coming here to talk about how abortion should be outlawed but if anyone dares badmouth religious politics they are unjustified. sure, the rhetoric is heated, but if we went to the keith urban message board and posted about a right to choose,ive no doubt you'd see the same response. this is the environment you chose... people who are passionately opposed to the policies you espouse and will be very vocal (occasionally crossing the bounds or propriety) in advocating it.
and i dont give a shit what political issues your values tell you to vote for, if you're voting becos your pastor said homos are evil, it's bad, and if you're voting becos your pastor said the war in iraq is evil, it's bad. i dont care what side your stance is on, you shouldn't be getting it from your pastor and too many people are.
i happen to think you're underestimating the momentum of this religious right. but so it goes.
and i hate every special interest group out there. but this thread was about the christian ones. you want to start a thread about drug companies and pill-pushing, ill be first in line to tear pharamceutical companies apart for what they do and why they do it.
.
i forgot to mention that you don't see those types of threads here. Just this type. Another in a never ending line of "Christains Suck" threads.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
The issue of whether or not abortion is right or wrong stretches somewhat beyond religion. Do you not think that the opposite could be said if that majority of people believed smoking meth was a good thing? If the hypothetical "meth group" was large enough to win an election for a candidate, I assure you that there would be someone supporting it without regard to what is in the public's best interest. That's a little far fetched, but it's true. Politics aren't bound by religion............Religion just, as it turns out, is a big issue umong voters. There is no possible way for politicians to cater to everyone and their different beliefs, morals, values, etc. So what do they do? They cater to the majority............or whoever will get them elected. Don't be fooled at this point with either side of the debate actually weighs right and wrong (morals) as a solid stance of a party. There are probably honest individuals who believe in good and campaign alone with the pure heart believing that they can help everyone...............but they undoubtably lose. You can't cater to everyone's needs in a country that is not total theocracy where everyone believes in the same thing. The minority or unpopular idealists will lose.........whether their right or wrong. It's a popularity contest just like it was back in the high school days. Who's going to win for class president; the person calling for soda and hamburgers, or the one calling for soymilk and vegetables? That's just reality.........it will be hard to change that at this point and with the direction the two major parties in this country are heading.
i think this belongs in the campaign finance thread but i agree. and abortion was just an easy example... i dont want this to become an aboriton debate. it was their banner issue for many years, though gay rights seems to be supplanting it.
i forgot to mention that you don't see those types of threads here. Just this type. Another in a never ending line of "Christains Suck" threads.
then like i said, join the travis tritt message board. you're in liberal territory. but i think you're hyper sensitive. the christians suck threads are as overblown as you say the religious right is and when i see them, i tend to sit on YOUR side of those debates.
i think this belongs in the campaign finance thread but i agree. and abortion was just an easy example... i dont want this to become an aboriton debate. it was their banner issue for many years, though gay rights seems to be supplanting it.
Yeah, lol, the can of worms is slowly but surely starting to leak
where did i say christians were all stupid or brainwashed? funny how you would consider yourself justified in coming here to talk about how abortion should be outlawed but if anyone dares badmouth religious politics they are unjustified. sure, the rhetoric is heated, but if we went to the keith urban message board and posted about a right to choose,ive no doubt you'd see the same response. this is the environment you chose... people who are passionately opposed to the policies you espouse and will be very vocal (occasionally crossing the bounds or propriety) in advocating it.
and i dont give a shit what political issues your values tell you to vote for, if you're voting becos your pastor said homos are evil, it's bad, and if you're voting becos your pastor said the war in iraq is evil, it's bad. i dont care what side your stance is on, you shouldn't be getting it from your pastor and too many people are.
i happen to think you're underestimating the momentum of this religious right. but so it goes.
Funny thing is, i've never come on here and said that abortion should be outlawed. In fact i've said just the opposite on several occasions. You fucking know better than to say that shit about me. You're still stereotyping. i also don't choose my political stances based on any type of pastoral coercion. Where do you get yours? Thats my point. You like to imply that people of faith get all their ideas from elsewhere, and that they shouldn't. EVERYONE is heavily influenced bty something or someone else! Everyone gets their stances from somewhere. If that is your definition of brainwashed, then we are ALL brainwashed, just by different agents. Because Christians tend to vote their values they are trying to force beliefs on everyone else!? Thats absolutely fucking absurd! If thats your definition of forcing beliefs, than once again EVERYONE is guilty of it! The NRA tries to force their ideas on me, the National Organization of Women tries to force their beliefs on me, PETA tries to force their beliefs on me, Focus on the Family and the fucking 700 club try to force their beliefs on me. EVERY FUCKING BODY does it. Thats not forcing beliefs, thats simply voting one's values and, damn it, everybody should! It seems to me you're pissed that there are some who don't believe abortion should be legal and vote such (again not me. keep my name out of your mouth when you start bitching about this) and there are some who believe two guys shouldn't be married and vote such, and so you bitch about those "damned Christians forcing their beliefs on everyone else". Total absurdity. Two issues have your undies in a bunch. i agree that when the religious right votes simply on these issues, they are demonstrating a very narrow scope. Tunnel vision perhaps. But when the opposite side finds themselves in an uproar about those "damned Christians" not only are they perpetuating a bullshit stereotype, they are demonstrating the same narrow scope and tunnel vision, just in the opposite direction.
Bottom line is stop pointing fingers and singling out an entire world body of believers based on the voting habits of a relative few, and stop singling out that group, when everybody is "guilty" of the same fucking thing.
Liberal territory. whatever. i'm generally regarded, by people who know me , as fairly fucking liberal myself. Stop with that line of crap. What does being "liberal have to do with faith hating. i'm of Christian faith, and generally on the left side of things. Again, enough with the sterotyping and implying that i'm better suited for some backward ass redneck country fuck message board. Please.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Bottom line is stop pointing fingers and singling out an entire world body of believers based on the voting habits of a relative few, and stop singling out that group.
i have not once "singled out an entire world body of believers"... in fact i have specifically said that not all or even most christians are like this and that the ones who are are almost entirely an american phenomenon, not a world-wide thing. i have also said that if i lived in iran id be saying the same thing about muslims. or if i lived in india id be saying the same thing about hindus. and so on. never have i said every christian in the entire world is like this. you need to relax.
That's interesting. So when you were raised Christian, you were more of a minority, then? edit: or do you mean it's different in the town you are in than when you were growing up?
I went to a Catholic school, learnt about god and Jesus since day one and I believed in it, we prayed every morning, went to church etc... And a lot of the kids in my town went to that school. My parents never seemed non-Christians, except they didn't go to church. My grandparent were also Christians and went to church. There were crucifixes in our home and my grandparents house. And I believed in it. Most kids did, if not all of them. But when we grew older most of us got so sick of these stories and Christ (typical rebellious behaviour) and gave up on religion and God or traded that image of god in for a more broad "natural higher power".
I had a teacher religious education and he said it should be forbidden to push god down little kids' throats because it had exactly that effect, they start to rebel against it, I mean how silly 'a man up in the sky who controls everything'. So when children become mature enough to understand what religion is about they are already against it before even knowing what it's about.
I went to a Catholic school, learnt about god and Jesus since day one and I believed in it, we prayed every morning, went to church etc... And a lot of the kids in my town went to that school. My parents never seemed non-Christians, except they didn't go to church. My grandparent were also Christians and went to church. There were crucifixes in our home and my grandparents house. And I believed in it. Most kids did, if not all of them. But when we grew older most of us got so sick of these stories and Christ (typical rebellious behaviour) and gave up on religion and God or traded that image of god in for a more broad "natural higher power".
I had a teacher religious education and he said it should be forbidden to push god down little kids' throats because it had exactly that effect, they start to rebel against it, I mean how silly 'a man up in the sky who controls everything'. So when children become mature enough to understand what religion is about they are already against it before even knowing what it's about.
Okay, thanks for clarifying, Collin.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
then why are you so pissed off? this is all i have been saying since post one. looks like im not the one with their undies in a bunch my friend.
i have not once "singled out an entire world body of believers"... in fact i have specifically said that not all or even most christians are like this and that the ones who are are almost entirely an american phenomenon, not a world-wide thing. i have also said that if i lived in iran id be saying the same thing about muslims. or if i lived in india id be saying the same thing about hindus. and so on. never have i said every christian in the entire world is like this. you need to relax.
So, regardless of where you live, its only the "non-religious" that get a pass?
First of all. i'm not pissed off. Simply making my points somewhat agressively due to the nature of the forum. What if i came on here day in and day out, making judgemental, stereotypical, inflamatory, bullshit comments about lawyers? Not all lawyers, mind you. Just the blood sucking, money grubbing, pseudo-intellectual, hypocrital, flip-flopping, American ones. You would defend yourself. Right?
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
So, regardless of where you live, its only the "non-religious" that get a pass?
First of all. i'm not pissed off. Simply making my points somewhat agressively due to the nature of the forum. What if i came on here day in and day out, making judgemental, stereotypical, inflamatory, bullshit comments about lawyers? Not all lawyers, mind you. Just the blood sucking, money grubbing, pseudo-intellectual, hypocrital, flip-flopping, American ones. You would defend yourself. Right?
I think we all automatically get defensive when another makes a blanket statement about things that pertain to us, whether it's our nationality, religion, sex, color, etc. And, yes, it's frustrating! But, I think we all need to learn to not let others define us. There will always be those that 'give the rest of us a bad name' and those that sterotype as a result. I think it's best to let it go or it will drive you mad. Be content with who you are and nevermind those who criticize.
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I think we all automatically get defensive when another makes a blanket statement about things that pertain to us, whether it's our nationality, religion, sex, color, etc. And, yes, it's frustrating! But, I think we all need to learn to not let others define us. There will always be those that 'give the rest of us a bad name' and those that sterotype as a result. I think it's best to let it go or it will drive you mad. Be content with who you are and nevermind those who criticize.
I agree. And i do that in general. In a discussion forum, however, when i simply discuss this topic, i get flamed for it. Others defend there position. i'm just doing the same thing. Like i said, i'm not angry. Just offering, what is around here, a very unpopular defense.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
So, regardless of where you live, its only the "non-religious" that get a pass?
First of all. i'm not pissed off. Simply making my points somewhat agressively due to the nature of the forum. What if i came on here day in and day out, making judgemental, stereotypical, inflamatory, bullshit comments about lawyers? Not all lawyers, mind you. Just the blood sucking, money grubbing, pseudo-intellectual, hypocrital, flip-flopping, American ones. You would defend yourself. Right?
no, becos those stereotypes are funny and harmless and id never take them personally. there is also a large element of truth to them... there are a lot of lawyers out there doing just that and i accept that they give the profession a bad name sometimes. i take no offense when people talk about drunken irishmen, pampered white suburban kids, or fucked up guilty/sex issues catholic people. becos the stereotypes arise for a reason... there's some truth to them. some will take it and believe it as a blanket prejudice, but such people are too stupid for me to change their mind anyway. others are just venting and ranting and that's cool with me too. others are just having fun and if you cannot laugh at yourself then you take yourself too seriously.
and no, the non-religious do not get a pass. i just dont really know any place where atheists walk around saying "have you rejected the concept of god yet?" if i lived in such a place, id be pissed at them, just as id be pissed at muslims in iran, etc etc. now, have you got any other annoying assumptions about my single-minded hatred of religion that i can relive you of? ive specifically said i will strongly defend faith and its reasonableness (i have faith myself)... only when it becomes a basis for political programming do i have problems. and i have problems anywhere that happens. and before you claim atheism does that, stop. cos it doesn't. they're not unified and they don't have a dogma that offers a comprehensive ballot program. or if they do their numbers are so small they have about the same elcetoral weight as david koresh and his kooks did.
Comments
well, the left has to play along to an extent. becos of the right wing influence on politics, even candidates from the left have to publicly announce themselves as christians to avoid being torn to shreds in the south for being a heathen. it's why i will suddenly have a religious conversion and go back to the catholic church shortly before i enter politics
All people are bound by the Constitution and Bill of Rights and divisions of power. I really don't care what people decide to get together and participate in the deomcratic process. I'm mostly just glad that they care enough to participate.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Although general salesmanship works the same way. I had a salesman in my home who was actually getting mad at me because I was not pulled in by his ploys. I had just read a book that week detailing all of them. He was so bothered that I was oblivious to his "tricks" that he was saying "what's wrong with you?" "have you had a bad life or something". He was there under the pretense of giving me some free insurance because my dad put me on the list to get it as a "benefit" because my dad is such a good customer. :rolleyes: When we arranged the appointment, I told him upfront I would not buy anything. He said "great, then it'll be a quick trip". I realized it was all a ploy, and I went through the process to humour my gullible dad. And I was really amazed to see it unfold as it did. The man got up 2 separate times, fuming, "pretending" to leave because he was so bothered. These are serious ploys that work like clockwork for them or it wouldn't have bothered him so much. I decided to refrain from doing that in the future for safety reasons. Maybe Christian witnesses could benefit from psychological training for their purposes.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Do you have a scientology center in your city? Ours used to be on the main street of Kitchener, and a guy would stand outside and talk to people as they'd walk by, soliciting for the "test". They are probably more dangerous than the usual religious types due to their strong psychological awareness. So it's probably good that people are basically taught to fear them and consider them cult-like. Although obviously enough people manage to slip through awareness and into their net. And that's not to say that I disagree with many of their basic tenets. Some are based on the same kind of psychology that I've used to dramatically change my life. It's the manipulation that is not okay in my mind. Some people take issue with the alien overlords but hey, tomato/tomahto in terms of religious icons. We enable salesmen, though, so in the grand scheme of things, I say, what the heck.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
That's interesting. So when you were raised Christian, you were more of a minority, then? edit: or do you mean it's different in the town you are in than when you were growing up?
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
TINSTAAFL
edit: I looked it up! "There isn't/aint no such thing as a free lunch". That's funny, I used to say that to my daughter years ago when she was a teenager who invested ridiculous energy in sponging off of all her friends, and trying to get free things whenever she could.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
it's about the only thing i remember from high school economics class
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
i covered this in another thread with you... actually, i believe it was about 2 pages ago. it's lazy, uninformed voting that enacts policies that are meaningless and distracts from pressing national issues. we dont talk about how a president plans to deal with our school system, out of control health care costs, economy, or national defense... becos we're too concerned with whether or not he will sign a gay marriage ban or how he feels about roe v wade (which he cant overturn anyway).
plus, i feel politicizing a religious message cheapens religion as a whole (as evidenced by the many negative reactions to christianity around here) and puts the focus less on personal, spiritual growth and development and more on telling other people how they should spiritually grow and develop. it's why i left the church: it was simply spiritually bankrupt anymore. it had become little more than a mouthpiece for political activism.
Oh, bull fucking shit. C'mon Souls. EVERY special interest group lobbies the government in an attempt to get what they want. Christian and "secular" alike. And most Christians do not try to try to force anyone to do anything. Look, i'm sorry you've had a few people witness to you a bit to aggressively. i really am. When are you going to stop stereotyping? Its nonsense, and if you don't see what goes on here as "bashing" then i think you're a bit blind.
and i hate every special interest group out there. but this thread was about the christian ones. you want to start a thread about drug companies and pill-pushing, ill be first in line to tear pharamceutical companies apart for what they do and why they do it.
the danger of the religious group is it has a much larger built in electorate that will often be fooled into electing people on pretense without regard to the best interests of the public. most people wont get behind a drug company cos they dont give a shit and suspect there is a profit motive at work. but many people will line up to vote for an evangelical becos of abortion of homos and end up voting for someone who will ship jobs overseas and bankrupt our schools becos his true allegiance is to capitalist policies and religious rhetoric is just what he uses to get elected.
plus, like i said, i dont like seeing religion be dragged into the mud with the rest of this. it's supposed to be above petty mud-slinging politics.
The "Religious Right" really isn't as large as you seem to think. That being said i agree those that make up the religious right are easily fooled to voting for stupid candidates. That really isn't my point. i also agree that they drag faith through the mud a little bit. First of all that doesn't make it justified for people to come on a message board where they know they are safe and the vast majority of posters will stroke their metaphorical weenie in agreement when they lump everyone who claims Christian faith under the same banner, refer to them as stupid, brainwashed etc. and then say "no, its not bashing". Please.
Secondly Religious folks and people of faith are going to vote their values. Who are you to tell them they are wrong to do so. Do you vote yours? As a person of faith, you damn well better bet that i'll be voting mine. It just so happens that those "religiously" inspired values primarily involve, poverty, war (peace actually), and the environment.
where did i say christians were all stupid or brainwashed? funny how you would consider yourself justified in coming here to talk about how abortion should be outlawed but if anyone dares badmouth religious politics they are unjustified. sure, the rhetoric is heated, but if we went to the keith urban message board and posted about a right to choose,ive no doubt you'd see the same response. this is the environment you chose... people who are passionately opposed to the policies you espouse and will be very vocal (occasionally crossing the bounds or propriety) in advocating it.
and i dont give a shit what political issues your values tell you to vote for, if you're voting becos your pastor said homos are evil, it's bad, and if you're voting becos your pastor said the war in iraq is evil, it's bad. i dont care what side your stance is on, you shouldn't be getting it from your pastor and too many people are.
i happen to think you're underestimating the momentum of this religious right. but so it goes.
i forgot to mention that you don't see those types of threads here. Just this type. Another in a never ending line of "Christains Suck" threads.
i think this belongs in the campaign finance thread
then like i said, join the travis tritt message board. you're in liberal territory. but i think you're hyper sensitive. the christians suck threads are as overblown as you say the religious right is
Bottom line is stop pointing fingers and singling out an entire world body of believers based on the voting habits of a relative few, and stop singling out that group, when everybody is "guilty" of the same fucking thing.
Liberal territory. whatever. i'm generally regarded, by people who know me , as fairly fucking liberal myself. Stop with that line of crap. What does being "liberal have to do with faith hating. i'm of Christian faith, and generally on the left side of things. Again, enough with the sterotyping and implying that i'm better suited for some backward ass redneck country fuck message board. Please.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
then why are you so pissed off? this is all i have been saying since post one. looks like im not the one with their undies in a bunch my friend.
i have not once "singled out an entire world body of believers"... in fact i have specifically said that not all or even most christians are like this and that the ones who are are almost entirely an american phenomenon, not a world-wide thing. i have also said that if i lived in iran id be saying the same thing about muslims. or if i lived in india id be saying the same thing about hindus. and so on. never have i said every christian in the entire world is like this. you need to relax.
I went to a Catholic school, learnt about god and Jesus since day one and I believed in it, we prayed every morning, went to church etc... And a lot of the kids in my town went to that school. My parents never seemed non-Christians, except they didn't go to church. My grandparent were also Christians and went to church. There were crucifixes in our home and my grandparents house. And I believed in it. Most kids did, if not all of them. But when we grew older most of us got so sick of these stories and Christ (typical rebellious behaviour) and gave up on religion and God or traded that image of god in for a more broad "natural higher power".
I had a teacher religious education and he said it should be forbidden to push god down little kids' throats because it had exactly that effect, they start to rebel against it, I mean how silly 'a man up in the sky who controls everything'. So when children become mature enough to understand what religion is about they are already against it before even knowing what it's about.
naděje umírá poslední
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
First of all. i'm not pissed off. Simply making my points somewhat agressively due to the nature of the forum. What if i came on here day in and day out, making judgemental, stereotypical, inflamatory, bullshit comments about lawyers? Not all lawyers, mind you. Just the blood sucking, money grubbing, pseudo-intellectual, hypocrital, flip-flopping, American ones. You would defend yourself. Right?
I think we all automatically get defensive when another makes a blanket statement about things that pertain to us, whether it's our nationality, religion, sex, color, etc. And, yes, it's frustrating! But, I think we all need to learn to not let others define us. There will always be those that 'give the rest of us a bad name' and those that sterotype as a result. I think it's best to let it go or it will drive you mad. Be content with who you are and nevermind those who criticize.
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
I agree. And i do that in general. In a discussion forum, however, when i simply discuss this topic, i get flamed for it. Others defend there position. i'm just doing the same thing. Like i said, i'm not angry. Just offering, what is around here, a very unpopular defense.
no, becos those stereotypes are funny and harmless and id never take them personally. there is also a large element of truth to them... there are a lot of lawyers out there doing just that and i accept that they give the profession a bad name sometimes. i take no offense when people talk about drunken irishmen, pampered white suburban kids, or fucked up guilty/sex issues catholic people. becos the stereotypes arise for a reason... there's some truth to them. some will take it and believe it as a blanket prejudice, but such people are too stupid for me to change their mind anyway. others are just venting and ranting and that's cool with me too. others are just having fun and if you cannot laugh at yourself then you take yourself too seriously.
and no, the non-religious do not get a pass. i just dont really know any place where atheists walk around saying "have you rejected the concept of god yet?" if i lived in such a place, id be pissed at them, just as id be pissed at muslims in iran, etc etc. now, have you got any other annoying assumptions about my single-minded hatred of religion that i can relive you of? ive specifically said i will strongly defend faith and its reasonableness (i have faith myself)... only when it becomes a basis for political programming do i have problems. and i have problems anywhere that happens. and before you claim atheism does that, stop. cos it doesn't. they're not unified and they don't have a dogma that offers a comprehensive ballot program. or if they do their numbers are so small they have about the same elcetoral weight as david koresh and his kooks did.