God vs Logic

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  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    surferdude wrote:
    For someone who is a proponent of logic you must understand why it would be absurd for me to watch a video of someone else's beliefs in order to understand my own principles.

    Oh I see, so by your definition, logic is one-sided? We shouldn't subject ourselves to an alternate analysis of our beliefs because it may have negative implications?
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    surferdude wrote:
    Anyone who gets their principles from technology is a scary person and probably scary close to being compleetly amoral..

    But his point about knowledge is dead on. Technology is only a product of our knowledge.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Oh I see, so by your definition, logic is one-sided? We shouldn't subject ourselves to an alternate analysis of our beliefs because it may have negative implications?
    Well considering no one has asked me what my beliefs are watching a video is not going to in any way be an analysis of my beliefs, now is it. Besides RVM is streaming right now, I'm not watching any damn video at the moment.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Collin
    Collin Posts: 4,931
    surferdude wrote:
    Besides RVM is streaming right now, I'm not watching any damn video at the moment.

    Now that, is logic.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Obviously to us, we know it is wrong to steal, why doesn't the guy you mentioned know it? He's still only looking out for himself not looking ahead too far, at all. He chances of survival living this way are very slim but he only sees the here and now of surviving. We know we need a better plan.

    Or, far more likely, he understands its wrong, but doesn't want to pay for the shit! Give me a break. Seriously.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cornnifer wrote:
    Or, far more likely, he understands its wrong, but doesn't want to pay for the shit! Give me a break. Seriously.

    Yes, and this thinking is unevolved. He hasn't evolved into thinking with the bigger picture in perspective. He doesn't want to pay because money ensures survival. He views short term monetary gain over long term harmony with those around him.

    What do you mean give you a break? I'm discussing my thoughts...what seems to be the problem?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Yes, and this thinking is unevolved. He hasn't evolved into thinking with the bigger picture in perspective. He doesn't want to pay because money ensures survival. He views short term monetary gain over long term harmony with those around him.

    What do you mean give you a break? I'm discussing my thoughts...what seems to be the problem?

    No problem, actually. The break i'm asking for is because i think you are seriously grasping here and coming up empty. Maybe a better choice of words would be "give your self a break". i honestly think you are a rational person so you must understand how your attempts at logic are in fact only digging yourself into a deeper hole. You are totally entitled to your thoughts and opinions. I totally respect them. i honestly don't think you've put much thought into this last batch of them, however. My guess is you're making them up as you go along. Oh well. if nothing else you may be onto to a brilliant new criminal defense plea. "Not guilty by reason of being unevolved". Its fucking brilliant!
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cornnifer wrote:
    No problem, actually. The break i'm asking for is because i think you are seriously grasping here and coming up empty. Maybe a better choice of words would be "give your self a break". i honestly think you are a rational person so you must understand how your attempts at logic are in fact only digging yourself into a deeper hole. You are totally entitled to your thoughts and opinions. I totally respect them. i honestly don't think you've put much thought into this last batch of them, however. My guess is you're making them up as you go along. Oh well. if nothing else you may be onto to a brilliant new criminal defense plea. "Not guilty by reason of being unevolved". Its fucking brilliant!

    I don't see my logic as grasping. It makes perfect sense to me. But I can see how such thoughts may frighten you because they can shake your current beliefs. You can say they don't but your anger and emotion says otherwise.

    I never said being less evolved makes someone not guility. But I do see the need to educate these people so they can see the err in their methods. That's what rehabilitation is all about.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I don't see my logic as grasping. It makes perfect sense to me. But I can see how such thoughts may frighten you because they can shake your current beliefs. You can say they don't but your anger and emotion says otherwise.

    I never said being less evolved makes someone not guility. But I do see the need to educate these people so they can see the err in their methods. That's what rehabilitation is all about.
    Actually it would make them completely innocent as by your way of thinking they are unequiped to do better than they did.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    surferdude wrote:
    Actually it would make them completely innocent as by your way of thinking they are unequiped to do better than they did.

    Well, I do not think of people as good vs evil ones. The guilt lies in the fact that he did steal. How we choose to deal with that as a society is up to us. Bad behavior must be addressed and discouraged. I think rehabilitation is a better long term solution. It's definitely a subject that could use some new, fresh discourse because it can be quite tricky.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Well, I do not think of people as good vs evil ones. The guilt lies in the fact that he did steal. How we choose to deal with that as a society is up to us. Bad behavior must be addressed and discouraged. I think rehabilitation is a better long term solution. It's definitely a subject that could use some new, fresh discourse because it can be quite tricky.
    So you think it is possible to force evolution? Sounds almost Orwellian.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    surferdude wrote:
    So you think it is possible to force evolution? Sounds almost Orwellian.


    Put it this way, I think it is currently being hindered. You can not force it but you can teach harmony as a way of life in order to survive. Harmony is life without conflict. It is a goal. Survival of the fittest requires conflict and suffering. To teach that conflict is the only way because that is how it always has been seems unacceptable to me. We have already evolved so much, why try to stop it now by means of miseducation?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I don't see my logic as grasping. It makes perfect sense to me. But I can see how such thoughts may frighten you because they can shake your current beliefs. You can say they don't but your anger and emotion says otherwise.

    .

    Now, you've gone and made me laugh. i've been nothing but calm, and, i'm nowhere near angry. Nothing i've said could make anyone think such. Most of all, and you can quote me on this one, my current beliefs are not shaken nor stirred by any of the absolutely absurdist stuff you've managed to pull from your behind these past few pages. Actually, you've strengthened them by clarifying that these are seemingly the best arguments there are. For that i thank you. :)
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Ahnimus
    Ahnimus Posts: 10,560
    Faith is the surrender of the mind.

    Choosing to give up reasoning and logic for faith. One of the greatest examples being the existance of a god. All reasoning and logic points to no existance, and actually a better chance aliens exist. Faith requires us to forget about our abilities to think and revert back to being dumb animals.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • surferdude
    surferdude Posts: 2,057
    Ahnimus wrote:
    All reasoning and logic points to no existance, and actually a better chance aliens exist. Faith requires us to forget about our abilities to think and revert back to being dumb animals.
    You are becoming the king of mindless rhetoric. Congrats.
    “One good thing about music,
    when it hits you, you feel to pain.
    So brutalize me with music.”
    ~ Bob Marley
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cornnifer wrote:
    Now, you've gone and made me laugh. i've been nothing but calm, and, i'm nowhere near angry. Nothing i've said could make anyone think such. Most of all, and you can quote me on this one, my current beliefs are not shaken nor stirred by any of the absolutely absurdist stuff you've managed to pull from your behind these past few pages. Actually, you've strengthened them by clarifying that these are seemingly the best arguments there are. For that i thank you. :)

    Pulling my thoughts from my behind?? No anger or emotion there, at the very least it's unwarrented disrespect of my views. If you wish to address my points with actual counter points or reaons why you disagree then fine. But to just call ideas and thoughts absurd leaves no room for discussion. Have a nice night. :)
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Faith is the surrender of the mind.

    Choosing to give up reasoning and logic for faith. One of the greatest examples being the existance of a god. All reasoning and logic points to no existance, and actually a better chance aliens exist. Faith requires us to forget about our abilities to think and revert back to being dumb animals.

    Allrighty then. :) Look, this debate about whether or not faith is illogical, is, for me at least, over. As i hinted at earlier, i'll accept your return at thoughtless, unsubstantial, " duh,... faith, is like, dumb, and stuff" posts as admission of defeat. It's o.k. Although, i must say, at least Abook tried.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Purple Hawk
    Purple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    Ahnimus wrote:
    Faith is the surrender of the mind.

    Choosing to give up reasoning and logic for faith. One of the greatest examples being the existance of a god. All reasoning and logic points to no existance, and actually a better chance aliens exist. Faith requires us to forget about our abilities to think and revert back to being dumb animals.

    I disagree. I'm certainly not religious, but am spiritual, and believing that I'm put here for a reason has made me explore my talents, ablities, etc, as opposed to reverting like a "dumb animal" who is just here with no purpose. From what I've seen, faith (with the exception of liberalism) encourages people to explore themselves.

    You bring up logic vs. faith, but so many who advocate this viewpoint have faith that George W Bush is the second coming of Hitler while Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's is an interesting, self-confident man who is willing to answer questions. To me, that's a twisted sense of logic.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • mpg82
    mpg82 Posts: 83
    Saw title, first thing that came to mind (unrelated):

    Dr. Ian Malcolm: "God creates dinosaurs. God destroys dinosaurs. God creates Man. Man destroys God. Man creates Dinosaurs"

    Dr. Satler: "Dinosarus eat man, Women inherits the earth"
    6/26/98, 6/27/98, 06/13/99, 10/08/00, 6/18/03, 6/21/03, 6/29/06, 6/30/06, 5/7/10
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    cornnifer wrote:
    Allrighty then. :) Look, this debate about whether or not faith is illogical, is, for me at least, over. As i hinted at earlier, i'll accept your return at thoughtless, unsubstantial, " duh,... faith, is like, dumb, and stuff" posts as admission of defeat. It's o.k. Although, i must say, at least Abook tried.

    At least you tried...or not. Because you didn't counter anything other than just to call it absurd. You skipped over plenty of my points and twisted others. This kind of discourse leads to tension. I much prefer the logical and intelligent exchanges i've had with Angelica and Baraka. Go back and reread the thread to see what I'm talking about.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde

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