Hello from Israel

melodious · July 2006

angelica wrote:

Completely.

If anyone would want to test this theory on the board, check it out--treat another poster sarcastically, and you will most likely trigger their own sarcasm. Treat them with hostility, and you will elicit hostility from them. Treat them with Love and you will get Love back. It's a base psychological principle. There are the exceptions from the few balanced people, but it generally works.

this theory has been tested more than once, angelica....

angelica · July 2006

melodious wrote:

this theory has been tested more than once, angelica....

You said it! I see it playing out day in and out!

SundaySilence · July 2006

mammasan wrote:

Violence is not the answer to violence.

Ignoring the humanitarian issue: Israel's response seems like a piece of colossal tactical stupidity. There are many Lebanese who are thoroughly sick of Hezbollah and Syria as the demonstrations earlier this year showed. Israel has just completely destroyed any chance of that faction maintaining control of government. Given that the Cedar revolution was one of the few success stories of the War On Terror, this course of action is insane.

mammasan · July 2006

SundaySilence wrote:

Ignoring the humanitarian issue: Israel's response seems like a piece of colossal tactical stupidity. There are many Lebanese who are thoroughly sick of Hezbollah and Syria as the demonstrations earlier this year showed. Israel has just completely destroyed any chance of that faction maintaining control of government. Given that the Cedar revolution was one of the few success stories of the War On Terror, this course of action is insane.

So true. Here is a country that was finally breaking away from Syria's influence and was making serious strides toward democracy and now all that work will be set back.

melodious · July 2006

has anyone here asked OP from israel if there's anything you can personally do to make life easier? is there anything anyone of us can do to help you??????

shiraz · July 2006

ConX wrote:

So that's why 100 Lebanese civilians are dead and less than 30 Israeli civilians are? You are goddamned blindly biased in favour of your country. The Lebanese government doesn't have the power to stop Hezbollah, it's not their fault. Jesus Christ.

There is wrong on both sides but don't ignore that your country is brutally attacking Lebanon's infastructure with alterior motives.

Actually, a total of 70 civilians have been killed and 207 wounded in Lebanon (according to al jazeera). It's sick. My point is - We are not aiming towards civilians *on purpose*, Hezbollah is. That's how the whole thing got started (along with the kidnapping of 2 soliders). And if you would like to sum it all in a stupid statistics (civilians are MORE than just numbers!), the reason for our "lower" number of casualties is simple: The majority of people from northern Israel left their houses and went to a safer place. Others like my brother chose to stay in their shelters.

The Hezbollah acts FOR NO REASON, and us civilians (in Israel & Lebanon) are paying the price for its provocation. My only hope is that I'm sure the Israeli public will not allow the current situation to get worse - we don't want to come back to where we've been 20 years ago.

einatshaul · July 2006

NMyTree wrote:

This I can respect.

I hope you're safe and out of harm's way.

Thank you, so far hundreds of missiles have fallen on the north, wounded and killed people, just living their lives, one fell near by, in my city of Haifa.
I'm not saying people should shut the fuck up, I think a discussion like this should be backed with knowledge, and it hurts me to read so many ignorant responses, while innocent people – on both sides, individual people who have no place in the decision making process over our heads - are being killed. We can only be aware of the terrible actions on both sides, but stop judging "Israelis" and "Palestinians" and "Lebanese" as a whole.
It is just offensive and ignorant.

NMyTree · July 2006

einatshaul wrote:

Thank you, so far hundreds of missiles have fallen on the north, wounded and killed people, just living their lives, one fell near by, in my city of Haifa.
I'm not saying people should shut the fuck up, I think a discussion like this should be backed with knowledge, and it hurts me to read so many ignorant responses, while innocent people – on both sides, individual people who have no place in the decision making process over our heads - are being killed. We can only be aware of the terrible actions on both sides, but stop judging "Israelis" and "Palestinians" and "Lebanese" as a whole.
It is just offensive and ignorant.

You know, you are correct.

Without a doubt I (and most of us here) don't know as much, as we think we do about what's going on over there. Every where you look there are people and media outlets making claims to the facts. You could find dozens of websites listing various statistics and they could all mean absolutley nothing.

As you well stated, and as I have always believed-people aren't just numbers.....beans to fill a bowl of statistics. We are taking about human beings.

It's easy to sit back and pass judgement, when one is thousands of miles away and sheltered from this type of on-going conflict-when it's not happening in one's frontyard.

Definitely food for thought.

melodious · July 2006

NMyTree wrote:

You know, you are correct.

Definitely food for thought.

we all can eat from this table, can't we?

how i wish i had a magik wand; i zap all the anquish to be gone

ConX · July 2006

shiraz wrote:

Actually, a total of 70 civilians have been killed and 207 wounded in Lebanon (according to al jazeera). It's sick. My point is - We are not aiming towards civilians *on purpose*, Hezbollah is. That's how the whole thing got started (along with the kidnapping of 2 soliders). And if you would like to sum it all in a stupid statistics (civilians are MORE than just numbers!), the reason for our "lower" number of casualties is simple: The majority of people from northern Israel left their houses and went to a safer place. Others like my brother chose to stay in their shelters.

The Hezbollah acts FOR NO REASON, and us civilians (in Israel & Lebanon) are paying the price for its provocation. My only hope is that I'm sure the Israeli public will not allow the current situation to get worse - we don't want to come back to where we've been 20 years ago.

You cannot justify what your country is doing. Today, at least 20 more Lebanese have been killed. I don't agree with Hezbollah, but I sure as hell don't agree with the merciless backlash from your government on a country that seems to be pretty helpless (where is the ACTUAL Lebanese army?). Israel is bombing Lebanon itsself into utter submission, not just targeting Hezbollah. It is the country of Lebanon, that has strived to recover from grave problems over the past 10 or so years, that is suffering most from this and will be "driven back 20 years" (as your Israeli government says) by these attacks.

The capture of two soldiers and aggressive actions from an enemy militant group does not justify the rape of a country.

There isn't really much point in us argueing...... Stay safe, but remember your country is just as bad.....

Rue D'Awakening · July 2006

Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora has demanded that the United Nations and the United States impose a cease-fire on the combat between Israel and Hezbollah. It is an odd demand for Mr. Siniora to make now. Hezbollah has been sending rockets across Lebanon's southern border into Israel ever since he became p.m.--and for years before. The Security Council had already mandated in the spring that Beirut disarm Hezbollah and establish its military authority in the southern part of the country which the Shia terrorists control. Not the smallest effort has been made to do this, and no Lebanese soldier has been seen in the Hezbollah mini-state for at least a decade. For that matter, no Lebanese flag has been seen there either. As for the United Nations, it already has troops on the Israel-Lebanon frontier, and they have been there for decades. They see movement in the bushes, and they retreat to their huts. The truth is that, if a truce were to be declared between Israel and Lebanon, Israel would honor it. But Siniora couldn't even if he wanted to. Since the Hezbollah militia exists only to make war on Israel (even though it vacated Lebanese territory entirely six years ago), Lebanon's desire for a quiet border is impeded by Hassan Nasrallah's cutthroats. Only if they were to be removed, could Siniora even aspire to guarantee the armistice he says he wants. Hezbollah's mini-state is not the first one to bring ruin to Lebanon. A quarter century ago, the PLO mini-state in the very same area of the country brought death and devastation to the country. When history repeats itself, it is rarely pleasant.

--Martin Peretz

shiraz · July 2006

ConX wrote:

You cannot justify what your country is doing. Today, at least 20 more Lebanese have been killed. I don't agree with Hezbollah, but I sure as hell don't agree with the merciless backlash from your government on a country that seems to be pretty helpless (where is the ACTUAL Lebanese army?). Israel is bombing Lebanon itsself into utter submission, not just targeting Hezbollah. It is the country of Lebanon, that has strived to recover from grave problems over the past 10 or so years, that is suffering most from this and will be "driven back 20 years" (as your Israeli government says) by these attacks.

The capture of two soldiers and aggressive actions from an enemy militant group does not justify the rape of a country.

There isn't really much point in us argueing...... Stay safe, but remember your country is just as bad.....

Other news: Israeli has sent a 72 hour ultimatum to Syria, demanding for them to stand against Hezbollah and ensure the return of the 2 captive soldiers, or it will begin bombardment of Syria.......

I'm not argueing, nor trying to justify our actions. It just drives me nuts that I'm (and the rest of the people here are) nothing but a number to you. As someone has just mentioned, I think a discussion like this should be backed with knowledge, something that obveisly you don't have.

thankyougrandma · July 2006

To SHIRAZ and einatshaul.

It's obviously not the intent to offend you or to consider you as nothing but a number, but when you start a thread about this war, what do you expect exactly? Of course not everyone will agree with you and your country, but i'm 100% sure that everyone does feel compassion or empathy (whatever the feeling is) for you and your situation. If i did offend one of you i'm sorry it was not the intent, if you consider me as ignorant no problem, all i'm doing is commenting the stuffs i hear about or read about, and i won't change my mind about the Isreali govt., their response is criminal, just like the Hezbollah actions. That was my last ignorant post in this thread since i don't want to offend any of you who are dealing with this tough situation, be safe...

NMyTree · July 2006

melodious wrote:

we all can eat from this table, can't we?

Absolutely.

melodious wrote:

how i wish i had a magik wand; i zap all the anquish to be gone

Would be nice.

shiraz · July 2006

thankyougrandma wrote:

To SHIRAZ and einatshaul.

It's obviously not the intent to offend you or to consider you as nothing but a number, but when you start a thread about this war, what do you expect exactly? Of course not everyone will agree with you and your country, but i'm 100% sure that everyone does feel compassion or empathy (whatever the feeling is) for you and your situation. If i did offend one of you i'm sorry it was not the intent, if you consider me as ignorant no problem, all i'm doing is commenting the stuffs i hear about or read about, and i won't change my mind about the Isreali govt., their response is criminal, just like the Hezbollah actions. That was my last ignorant post in this thread since i don't want to offend any of you who are dealing with this tough situation, be safe...

I started this because:

1. I needed to let it all out.

2. I was frustrated to see how little you (= the Train) know about what's really going on here, and yet still allow yourselfs to see it all in black & white. You hear about "it" and maybe read about "it". I'm living it, this is my life you are talking about. My life. Not some stupid reality show you use to see on TV.

3. I'm not offended by any of your opinions, just shocked to see on how little / wrong info you chose to base them.

cincybearcat · July 2006

shiraz wrote:

I started this because:

1. I needed to let it all out.

2. I was frustrated to see how little you (= the Train) know about what's really going on here, and yet still allow yourselfs to see it all in black & white. You hear about "it" and maybe read about "it". I'm living it, this is my life you are talking about. My life. Not some stupid reality show you use to see on TV.

3. I'm not offended by any of your opinions, just shocked to see on how little / wrong info you chose to base them.

I hope you stay safe. I have no idea what the so-called 'appropriate response' to the situation is. Really you can only take so much and keep sitting on your hands so long before you have to take a stand. It is obvious the the surrounding countries either a) don't care about Israel and it's people or b) want to eliminate Israel and it's people.

This is going to get so much worse before it gets any better.

ConX · July 2006

shiraz wrote:

I'm not argueing, nor trying to justify our actions. It just drives me nuts that I'm (and the rest of the people here are) nothing but a number to you. As someone has just mentioned, I think a discussion like this should be backed with knowledge, something that obveisly you don't have.

You should shut the hell up now. I didn't say you were "just a number" and I have let my compassions to you known. eg. "Stay safe", "I know your predicament is difficult", yet because I criticise your government for its wrongdoings you say I have no knowledge. I back what I say with facts, give me a goddamn break, I say we should stop argueing and you throw sewage like what you just said back in my face.

EDIT: Sorry, but I do not think you are "just a number" and if you read what I write besides my criticisms of the Israeli government you'd see you have my sympathy.....

ConX · July 2006

shiraz wrote:

I started this because:

1. I needed to let it all out.

2. I was frustrated to see how little you (= the Train) know about what's really going on here, and yet still allow yourselfs to see it all in black & white. You hear about "it" and maybe read about "it". I'm living it, this is my life you are talking about. My life. Not some stupid reality show you use to see on TV.

3. I'm not offended by any of your opinions, just shocked to see on how little / wrong info you chose to base them.

1. Fair Enough.

2. I'm talking about International politics with what I say, not your own personal predicament.

3. 106 Lebanese dead, its airport bombed and its infastructure under brutal attack, is NOT wrong info.

NMyTree · July 2006

ConX wrote:

You should shut the hell up now. I didn't say you wrre just a number and I have let my compassions to you known. "Stay safe", "I know your predicament is difficult", yet because I criticise your government for its wrongdoings you say I have no knowledge. I back what I say with facts, give me a goddamn break, I say we should stop argueing and you throw sewage like what you just said back in my face.

That was uncalled for and inappropriate.

Regardless of what you think, we (those of us not close enough to the situation) are for the main part ignorant of all the facts of the situation.

Quoting some news story headline or article from CNN, hardly qualifies as making you or me educated on the matter. We only know bits and pieces of what has occured.

ConX · July 2006

NMyTree wrote:

That was uncalled for and inappropriate.

Regardless of what you think, we (those of us not close enough to the situation) are for the main part ignorant of all the facts of the situation.

Quoting some news story headline or article from CNN, hardly qualifies as making you or me educated on the matter. We only know bits and pieces of what has occured.

Perhaps, but we still have knowledge on the matter and I wouldn't say we are completely ignorant of what's going on. We are just not experiencing it....

What annoyed me was that I sympathised with his personal predicament (which is terrible and I wish he wasn't in it) and he then accused me of calling him "just a number", it just got me riled, since I don't want him to believe I have no sympathy for what he's going through whilst still retaining my view that politically Israel is wrong on this matter.....

Hello from Israel

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