Nader asks if Obama will be "Uncle Tom"

Rhinocerous Surprise wrote:

Well, yeah, but we all know Obama is black. Would people be having such problems with Nader if he had asked if Obama would be "the first black president to sell out to big business"? The point I was making was, even if Nader's wordplay was in part based on Obama's skin colour, its intention wasn't, as far as I can tell, to judge him based on that in any way. Otherwise, he would've said Apollo Creed instead of Uncle Sam.

why does his race even need mentioning, period? i have zero issue with nader, or anyone expressing their hopes, and also their critiques, of obama and his future policies and performance.....as i would ANY president elect, i just see no point in bringing up the color of his skin to do so. it serves no purpose there imo.

as you say, we all know he's black...so why point it out?
as i said...differing perspectives. my points on the subject are pretty clear in my numerous posts on the thread. i also am completely open to disagreement on the matter. however, my opinion on it still stands. poor choice.


friendlyfire.....absolute agreement. and really, no one has to 'deal' with anything in regards to nader since he is not an elected official, just another opinion out there, and that's fine.

VictoryGin wrote:

i don't know why you keep suggesting this is the same thing. uncle tom is a pejorative racial term these days. saying some cling to guns, religion, and are anti-immigrant is not a pejorative racial statement.

the only thing i can think of is that nader is using uncle tom as stowe originally meant it, since he was alive at the time, obvs. but then that wouldn't make sense because he would be showing respect to obama and painting him in a positive light.

then why do you have a problem w/ it if the only thing you can think of is he was painting obama in a positive light????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom

Uncle Tom is a pejorative for a black person who is perceived by others as behaving in a subservient manner to White American authority figures, or as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation. The term Uncle Tom comes from the title character of Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel Uncle Tom's Cabin, although there is debate over whether the character himself is deserving of the pejorative attributed to him. Stowe never meant Uncle Tom to be a degrading character, but the term as a pejorative has developed based on how later versions of the character, stripped of his strength, were depicted on stage.[1]

It is commonly used to describe black people whose political views or allegiances are considered by their critics as detrimental to blacks as a group.



and i still think saying someone didn't vote for me b/c they are anti-immigrant seems a bit centered on race since he is saying they didn't vote for him b/c they don't like certain races

El_Kabong wrote:

then why do you have a problem w/ it if the only thing you can think of is he was painting obama in a positive light????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncle_Tom

Uncle Tom is a pejorative for a black person who is perceived by others as behaving in a subservient manner to White American authority figures, or as seeking ingratiation with them by way of unnecessary accommodation. The term Uncle Tom comes from the title character of Harriet Beecher Stowe's novel Uncle Tom's Cabin, although there is debate over whether the character himself is deserving of the pejorative attributed to him. Stowe never meant Uncle Tom to be a degrading character, but the term as a pejorative has developed based on how later versions of the character, stripped of his strength, were depicted on stage.[1]

It is commonly used to describe black people whose political views or allegiances are considered by their critics as detrimental to blacks as a group.



and i still think saying someone didn't vote for me b/c they are anti-immigrant seems a bit centered on race since he is saying they didn't vote for him b/c they don't like certain races

I WAS BEING CLEVER AND SARCASTIC, MAKING A JOKE ABOUT NADER'S AGE. I AM ABLE TO DO THAT BECAUSE I AM LEARNED AND KNOW WHAT UNCLE TOM MEANS.

if you have read anything i've posted i've been stating that uncle tom is a pejorative these days. jesus.

VictoryGin wrote:

I WAS BEING CLEVER AND SARCASTIC, MAKING A JOKE ABOUT NADER'S AGE. I AM ABLE TO DO THAT BECAUSE I AM LEARNED AND KNOW WHAT UNCLE TOM MEANS.

if you have read anything i've posted i've been stating that uncle tom is a pejorative these days. jesus.

oh, i get it, another petty attack :rolleyes:

but he didn't say obama WAS an uncle tom, he said we'll see, and if obama acts like bush or another corrupt politician than calling him an uncle tom is factually correct, no? he would be acting 'detrimental to blacks as a group.', right?

decides2dream wrote:

cmon now....i am ALL for supporting someone who's ideas you believe in, etc....but really, can you NOT even admit it was a racial remark, and unnecessary?



uncle sam = not a racial term
uncle tom = racial term.



seriously?


can you call anyone other than someone who is black an 'uncle tom'....? whereas 'uncle sam' is a symbol of patriotism, and while sure...an old, white guy.....doesn't mean that no one but old, white men can behave in an 'uncle sam' manner, whereas ONLY someone who is black can behave in an 'uncle tom' manner. sheesh.


we're bordering on the ridiculous now.







wouldn't he be acting in a way that is detrimental to US ALL...not just blacks???
so yes, again...NOT about race, or it shouldn't be.

sigh did nader call obama an uncle tom? no, he didn't, what he said was correct (that time will tell if obama is a sellout or not) and i think it's far less an offense than saying someone didn't vote for me b/c they don't like immigrants...

decides2dream wrote:

sigh indeed.



i KNOW he didn't CALL obama an uncle tom...nor an uncle sam. if you want to completely disregard the use of pejorative utilized ONLY for blacks, so be it. and as far as the immigrant comment, obviously a difference of opinion there.

as i said, if you support the use of the term, good for you....i prefer leaving out racially loaded language, i do not see it supporting anything positive. that's one kind of change i'd like to see in my lifetime....

ok, but i still think if obama turns our to be a sell out calling him an uncle tom is factually correct and i don't see it as a bad a term as 'nigger' or 'mau-mau' or something and i still say saying the voters of pennsylvania didn't vote for me b/c they don't like immigrants is pretty racial

decides2dream wrote:

actually, according to your interpretation..i should then feel left out and excluded by nader's comments, b/c obviously he only thinks if obama is a sellout to corporate interests, the only people he will harm is black americans. way to leave out a whole lot of americans in that scenario. as an 'uncle sam'...he works for us ALL...as an 'uncle tom'...he'd only harm black americans. you're right, tis an excellent comparison to make. :rolleyes:

do you think black americans have different interests than white americans?????

decides2dream wrote:

if you want to be seem as a leader, a unifier...a person working for the people and want ALL PEOPLE to focus on your message, imo, there are FAR BETTER ways of doing so, and language choice IS important. i'm all for witty wordplay...but not to the detriment of my message. whatever.

and i think you shouldn't blame your loss of a primary on ppl being anti-immigrant

decidestodream, i think you're taking these comments a bit too harshly. They're not racially motivated in any manner. Calling a person (no matter what they are) an Uncle tom is merely implying they follow in line. It's no different from calling some a sheep. You're fixated on the words yet ignoring the message and meaning of Nader's comments. I personally feel it's a great comment by Nader as those who don't want to hear the harsh reality of our political system, ignore such things. You can complain and say otherwise but, in reality, Nader is 100% correct. You can play thought police and get all worked up bout politically correct, but as someone previously stated, it's comparing the difference between someone being called a liar or just told they're not telling the truth. You can argue over the language, but both say the same, more is just more direct and harsh - but it doesn't make it wrong.

I really didnt believe anyone would reach to defend the use of Uncle Tom but now I'll believe anything. He would NOT have used the term if talking about Hillary if she would have won. Naderites like to call Obama's supporters sheep. Maybe they should look in the mirror as well.

flywallyfly wrote:

Obviously you dont know any black people or you would know the answer to this. You will get the same response for either word unless you are on VERY friendly terms. As an experiment why dont you try it today with 5 different random black men. Let us know how it goes.

try what? saying 'uncle tom' or calling them one?

i took your advice monday, i wrote down exactly what Nader said

"To put it very simply, he is our first African-American president. And we wish him well. But his choice, basically, is whether he is going to be Uncle Sam for this country, or Uncle Tom for the giant corporations".

and i showed it to 9 black ppl at work from all 3 shifts and asked them if they thought this was a racist thing to say

EVERY SINLE ONE OF THEM SAID NO b/c it was CALLING obama an uncle tom and they all said if he does sell out to corporations and ends up being 'just another typical politician' they would think he was an uncle tom

they even pointed out that it said in the middle 'we wish him well'

so it seems the only ppl who have a problem w/ this is you, victory gin, decides2dream, sweet potato....(white ppl who attack anyone other than obama and those who support them) and faux news....:rolleyes:


as a sort of bonus question i asked what they would think if mccain had lost our state (which he won) and blamed it on the ppl in our state clinging to guns and religion and being anti-immigrant? they all thought it would be a stupid thing to say and that he's trying to blame ppl for not voting for him b/c they didn't like him or what he had to say more than who they did vote for

ALSO, yesterday among 3 of them 1 mentioned some article that had a big list of rappers and narrowed it down to the best one 'of all time' (eminem) we talked a little about ppl that didn;t make it or make it far or didn't deserve to make it as far as they did...they seemed surprised that i knew so much about some older ones and i said i used to like it back in the day when it was about something, then it turned into a gimmick w/ a bunch of clowns and uncle tom's and the response was laughter, i suspect had i said 'a bunch of clowns and niggers' or kike or spick (or whatever others someone compared 'uncle tom' to) their reaction would be a bit different