sigh did nader call obama an uncle tom? no, he didn't, what he said was correct (that time will tell if obama is a sellout or not) and i think it's far less an offense than saying someone didn't vote for me b/c they don't like immigrants...
sigh indeed.
i KNOW he didn't CALL obama an uncle tom...nor an uncle sam. if you want to completely disregard the use of pejorative utilized ONLY for blacks, so be it. and as far as the immigrant comment, obviously a difference of opinion there.
as i said, if you support the use of the term, good for you....i prefer leaving out racially loaded language, i do not see it supporting anything positive. that's one kind of change i'd like to see in my lifetime....
actually, according to your interpretation..i should then feel left out and excluded by nader's comments, b/c obviously he only thinks if obama is a sellout to corporate interests, the only people he will harm is black americans. way to leave out a whole lot of americans in that scenario. as an 'uncle sam'...he works for us ALL...as an 'uncle tom'...he'd only harm black americans. you're right, tis an excellent comparison to make. :rolleyes:
i KNOW he didn't CALL obama an uncle tom...nor an uncle sam. if you want to completely disregard the use of pejorative utilized ONLY for blacks, so be it. and as far as the immigrant comment, obviously a difference of opinion there.
as i said, if you support the use of the term, good for you....i prefer leaving out racially loaded language, i do not see it supporting anything positive. that's one kind of change i'd like to see in my lifetime....
ok, but i still think if obama turns our to be a sell out calling him an uncle tom is factually correct and i don't see it as a bad a term as 'nigger' or 'mau-mau' or something and i still say saying the voters of pennsylvania didn't vote for me b/c they don't like immigrants is pretty racial
actually, according to your interpretation..i should then feel left out and excluded by nader's comments, b/c obviously he only thinks if obama is a sellout to corporate interests, the only people he will harm is black americans. way to leave out a whole lot of americans in that scenario. as an 'uncle sam'...he works for us ALL...as an 'uncle tom'...he'd only harm black americans. you're right, tis an excellent comparison to make. :rolleyes:
do you think black americans have different interests than white americans?????
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
ok, but i still think if obama turns our to be a sell out calling him an uncle tom is factually correct and i don't see it as a bad a term as 'nigger' or 'mau-mau' or something and i still say saying the voters of pennsylvania didn't vote for me b/c they don't like immigrants is pretty racial
do you think black americans have different interests than white americans?????
why use the term?
THAT's my point.
i've over 20+ posts on thsi thread, and whether factually correct or not...what's the point in usuing a racially loaded term? the only answers i've gotten so far:
- witty wordplay ( unwise to sacrifice your message for mere wordplay imo)
- getting airtime by using controverisal terms ( possible!)
- b/c it's accurate? ( i think usuing exclusionary and/or racially specific language isn't all that 'accurate)
obviously, it's a difference of opinion.....but it should not be assumed b/c some may think it's a poor choice does not mean we don't *get it*...we simply think it's a poor choice. at the end of the day, it doesn't make a shit of difference. i really don't care what nader says about obama or anyone really at this point. i participated in the TOPIC...and whether it was nader or ANYone, i would say the same thing...a poor wordchoice at best, and really...not all that accurate since it refers specifically to one race. we can go round and round.....and i still see it as such.
if you want to be seem as a leader, a unifier...a person working for the people and want ALL PEOPLE to focus on your message, imo, there are FAR BETTER ways of doing so, and language choice IS important. i'm all for witty wordplay...but not to the detriment of my message. whatever.
if you want to be seem as a leader, a unifier...a person working for the people and want ALL PEOPLE to focus on your message, imo, there are FAR BETTER ways of doing so, and language choice IS important. i'm all for witty wordplay...but not to the detriment of my message. whatever.
and i think you shouldn't blame your loss of a primary on ppl being anti-immigrant
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Nader is too smart he chooses his words wisely. He said it, he meant it. Deal!
and yea, we're dealing. honestly, couldn't care less in the scheme of things...but if people are going to discuss the topic, the language, give it a fre pass...go for it. i will not be one of em, no matter who makes the comment and poorly chosen, even if he well thought it out.
i agree he's smart and chooses his words...i absolutely agree he meant it.
it's just not a meaning that i think is relevant.
decidestodream, i think you're taking these comments a bit too harshly. They're not racially motivated in any manner. Calling a person (no matter what they are) an Uncle tom is merely implying they follow in line. It's no different from calling some a sheep. You're fixated on the words yet ignoring the message and meaning of Nader's comments. I personally feel it's a great comment by Nader as those who don't want to hear the harsh reality of our political system, ignore such things. You can complain and say otherwise but, in reality, Nader is 100% correct. You can play thought police and get all worked up bout politically correct, but as someone previously stated, it's comparing the difference between someone being called a liar or just told they're not telling the truth. You can argue over the language, but both say the same, more is just more direct and harsh - but it doesn't make it wrong.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
I really didnt believe anyone would reach to defend the use of Uncle Tom but now I'll believe anything. He would NOT have used the term if talking about Hillary if she would have won. Naderites like to call Obama's supporters sheep. Maybe they should look in the mirror as well.
decidestodream, i think you're taking these comments a bit too harshly. They're not racially motivated in any manner. Calling a person (no matter what they are) an Uncle tom is merely implying they follow in line. It's no different from calling some a sheep. You're fixated on the words yet ignoring the message and meaning of Nader's comments. I personally feel it's a great comment by Nader as those who don't want to hear the harsh reality of our political system, ignore such things. You can complain and say otherwise but, in reality, Nader is 100% correct. You can play thought police and get all worked up bout politically correct, but as someone previously stated, it's comparing the difference between someone being called a liar or just told they're not telling the truth. You can argue over the language, but both say the same, more is just more direct and harsh - but it doesn't make it wrong.
nope. sure, may be your opinion...but i don't think too harshly at all. it's a CHOICE. and he willing chose, and reaffirmed racially loaded language. if it is merely implying 'following the line' or being 'sheep'...than leave the racial language aside and focus on your own message, not witty wordyplay. btw - i am not ignoring nader's message at all. point is this thread ISN'T about 'his message'...but rather about his word choice. he message, in and of itself....a-ok. we SHALL see what obama's presidency will hold, if he will be politics as usual or some much-needed change. however, for the point of this discussion...my focus is on language b/c that's what the discussion is about. bottomline, i think his message gets hurt b/c of words he chose to utlize...but as i've stated, it really doesn't matter to me one way or another at this point. whether nader or ANYone made this comment, i'd have said the same.
this has all been merely interesting language debate passing a few of my workdays....:)
Obviously you dont know any black people or you would know the answer to this. You will get the same response for either word unless you are on VERY friendly terms. As an experiment why dont you try it today with 5 different random black men. Let us know how it goes.
try what? saying 'uncle tom' or calling them one?
i took your advice monday, i wrote down exactly what Nader said
"To put it very simply, he is our first African-American president. And we wish him well. But his choice, basically, is whether he is going to be Uncle Sam for this country, or Uncle Tom for the giant corporations".
and i showed it to 9 black ppl at work from all 3 shifts and asked them if they thought this was a racist thing to say
EVERY SINLE ONE OF THEM SAID NO b/c it was CALLING obama an uncle tom and they all said if he does sell out to corporations and ends up being 'just another typical politician' they would think he was an uncle tom
they even pointed out that it said in the middle 'we wish him well'
so it seems the only ppl who have a problem w/ this is you, victory gin, decides2dream, sweet potato....(white ppl who attack anyone other than obama and those who support them) and faux news....:rolleyes:
as a sort of bonus question i asked what they would think if mccain had lost our state (which he won) and blamed it on the ppl in our state clinging to guns and religion and being anti-immigrant? they all thought it would be a stupid thing to say and that he's trying to blame ppl for not voting for him b/c they didn't like him or what he had to say more than who they did vote for
ALSO, yesterday among 3 of them 1 mentioned some article that had a big list of rappers and narrowed it down to the best one 'of all time' (eminem) we talked a little about ppl that didn;t make it or make it far or didn't deserve to make it as far as they did...they seemed surprised that i knew so much about some older ones and i said i used to like it back in the day when it was about something, then it turned into a gimmick w/ a bunch of clowns and uncle tom's and the response was laughter, i suspect had i said 'a bunch of clowns and niggers' or kike or spick (or whatever others someone compared 'uncle tom' to) their reaction would be a bit different
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i took your advice monday, i wrote down exactly what Nader said
and i showed it to 9 black ppl at work from all 3 shifts and asked them if they thought this was a racist thing to say
EVERY SINLE ONE OF THEM SAID NO b/c it was CALLING obama an uncle tom and they all said if he does sell out to corporations and ends up being 'just another typical politician' they would think he was an uncle tom
they even pointed out that it said in the middle 'we wish him well'
so it seems the only ppl who have a problem w/ this is you, victory gin, decides2dream, sweet potato....(white ppl who attack anyone other than obama and those who support them) and faux news....:rolleyes:
as a sort of bonus question i asked what they would think if mccain had lost our state (which he won) and blamed it on the ppl in our state clinging to guns and religion and being anti-immigrant? they all thought it would be a stupid thing to say and that he's trying to blame ppl for not voting for him b/c they didn't like him or what he had to say more than who they did vote for
ALSO, yesterday among 3 of them 1 mentioned some article that had a big list of rappers and narrowed it down to the best one 'of all time' (eminem) we talked a little about ppl that didn;t make it or make it far or didn't deserve to make it as far as they did...they seemed surprised that i knew so much about some older ones and i said i used to like it back in the day when it was about something, then it turned into a gimmick w/ a bunch of clowns and uncle tom's and the response was laughter, i suspect had i said 'a bunch of clowns and niggers' or kike or spick (or whatever others someone compared 'uncle tom' to) their reaction would be a bit different
Nice experiment except you know them AND you work with them so I dont think they are gonna go off on you on the clock. Try it with random black people you have no connection to. Plus, dont show them what Nader said, just say it like it was from your head and your thought. Good luck.
so it seems the only ppl who have a problem w/ this is you, victory gin, decides2dream, sweet potato....(white ppl who attack anyone other than obama and those who support them) and faux news....:rolleyes:
LOL. Thanks for your scientific poll. I'm sure we are the only ones who thought that was a racist remark, lol. BTW, I dont have a problem with it because Nader is irrelevant to me so he can rant racist remarks all he wants. I will, however, point it out and chuckle at those Nader supporters that it does seem to bother and they will justify it as benign anyway they can.
so it seems the only ppl who have a problem w/ this is you, victory gin, decides2dream, sweet potato....(white ppl who attack anyone other than obama and those who support them) and faux news....
wow.
that is by far the biggest crock of shit, and absolutely false i might add, that you have ever posted in regards to any comments i have made on this board. if you truly read all my posts on this subject, and even about the election, the candidates, etc...i by NO means attack anyone outside of obama, not byu a long shot...and i almost always post from a point of respect, as often as i can manage in any case.....but that's just a lie.
and once AGAIN, for the record...it has nothing to do with NADER saying it, he just happened to...my thoughts would be the same no matter WHO said it...and i also NEVER said it was racist! i said it was racially loaded language and unnecessary...and it is! it is based on race and is unnecessary, and rather exclusionary since it focuses only on blacks. sheesh.
disagree, fine.....but at least try and understand.
Nice experiment except you know them AND you work with them so I dont think they are gonna go off on you on the clock. Try it with random black people you have no connection to. Plus, dont show them what Nader said, just say it like it was from your head and your thought. Good luck.
i think if it said nigger instead of uncle tom they would have felt it was a racist statement even if it was written down. what is the difference of me saying it and them reading it? i didn't say who said it, i just showed the quote and asked them if they thought it was racist, i can almost guarantee they would've said yes had the word been nigger or kike
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i think if it said nigger instead of uncle tom they would have felt it was a racist statement even if it was written down. what is the difference of me saying it and them reading it? i didn't say who said it, i just showed the quote and asked them if they thought it was racist, i can almost guarantee they would've said yes had the word been nigger or kike
Fine, if it makes you feel tingly about Nader then I'll retract all my negative statements about Nader. He is no racist. The man is my hero. I'm sorry I ever doubted the man. I swear I'll collect signatures for him to get on the ballot in Texas in 2012.
well in fairness...didn't you also quote them clinging to their guns and religion, along with being anit-immigrant? yes...what a slur!
whatever...way to dodge the issue, repeatedly, in the thread.
personally, i have yet to see one really good reason for anyone to support nader's comments. this comes the closest:
and yea, we're dealing. honestly, couldn't care less in the scheme of things...but if people are going to discuss the topic, the language, give it a fre pass...go for it. i will not be one of em, no matter who makes the comment and poorly chosen, even if he well thought it out.
i agree he's smart and chooses his words...i absolutely agree he meant it.
it's just not a meaning that i think is relevant.
what am i dodging??
yeah deal w/ it that only you, flywallyfly, victory gin, sweetpotato and fox news care about this
i know he said the guns and religion, but those aren't racially motivated, you asked how they were, those aren't but saying someone didn't vote for me b/c they dislike immigrants IS
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
actually i'd prefer if you called it "witty wordplay."
i must have missed your reply when i asked before? was it classy or 'witty wordplay' when obama said he lost the pennsylvania primary b/c the voters cling to their guns and religion and are anti-semtic?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Fine, if it makes you feel tingly about Nader then I'll retract all my negative statements about Nader. He is no racist. The man is my hero. I'm sorry I ever doubted the man. I swear I'll collect signatures for him to get on the ballot in Texas in 2012.
ummmm...thanks? why do some ppl take disagreements so personally?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
btw, nader has also said obama is one of the smartest ppl ever to run for president
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
yeah deal w/ it that only you, flywallyfly, victory gin, sweetpotato and fox news care about this
i know he said the guns and religion, but those aren't racially motivated, you asked how they were, those aren't but saying someone didn't vote for me b/c they dislike immigrants IS
*bangs head*
i will type in all caps so perhaps you will get it:
IT IS RACIALLY LOADED LANGUAGE AND COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.
i will type in all caps so perhaps you will get it:
IT IS RACIALLY LOADED LANGUAGE AND COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.
TO YOU, FLYWALLYFLY, VICTORY GIN, SWEET POTATO, FOX NEWS AND.....NO ONE ELSE
what was i dodging?
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
yeah deal w/ it that only you, flywallyfly, victory gin, sweetpotato and fox news care about this
i know he said the guns and religion, but those aren't racially motivated, you asked how they were, those aren't but saying someone didn't vote for me b/c they dislike immigrants IS
*bangs head*
i will type in all caps so perhaps you will get it:
IT IS RACIALLY LOADED LANGUAGE AND COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.
THAT is what you seem to be dodging. you cannot admit it serves NO purpose whatsoever. i *GET* the analogy, the witty wordplay......but if ANY OTHER PERSON were elected president, one who was NOT BLACK...he'd not use the language, so WHY use it?
and, once again...i have said, repeatedly...i DON'T CARE about his comments, would NOT have even KNOWN about them except for this thread! the topic of language usage interests me, and so i DISCUSSED the THREAD TOPIC!
and i am sorry, i STILL don't see how it is racially loaded to say one didn't vote for a candidate b/c they are anti-immigrant. i just don't see it. at all. but that wasn't even what this topic was about....it was about this one comment. that is all.
sorry, for seem reason i apparently must've hit 'submit' before i actually finished my post......:p
and btw - whether people will come out and say it or not, it IS racially loaded language, period. whether one thinks it's appropriate is entirely something else.
Some one call the WAAAMMMMbulance....a big bad mean man called another person a term I don't like or didn't appreciate.
Seriously, how soft and pathetic is our society where words really hurt people? Not even directly, but indirectly - even worse!
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Some one call the WAAAMMMMbulance....a big bad mean man called another person a term I don't like or didn't appreciate.
Seriously, how soft and pathetic is our society where words really hurt people? Not even directly, but indirectly - even worse!
hahahahahahahahahahaha!
awesome!
who's hurt?
and seriously, if that's all you get out of this...good for you.
some of us are interested in language, usage and intent. it's not *personal*...it's discussion.
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
I'm not saying you personally, but our society is so soft and weak in regards to being offended or language that it really diminishes when we see real racism, discrimination and injustice. Sensationalization of media coverage and people is so over the top that we have really become so overtly politically correct, people have lost touch and don't see the forrest from the trees. I think this thread is an example of that.
Not to change topics, but I think the recent issue with Imus is a perfect example as well.
who's hurt?
and seriously, if that's all you get out of this...good for you.
some of us are interested in language, usage and intent. it's not *personal*...it's discussion.
CONservative governMENt
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
TO YOU, FLYWALLYFLY, VICTORY GIN, SWEET POTATO, FOX NEWS AND.....NO ONE ELSE
what was i dodging?
good lord. the only place this seems to be a concern is this board. i posted responses to the language because that's what the thread asked for. ultimately i'm not concerned about this incident because 1. this is only a concern on this board and not seemingly relevant to the rest of the nation. 2. i have other things to occupy my time.
but it seems that it doesn't matter what anyone says because it's not getting through apparently.
flywallyfly, your response about the scientific poll was great.
d2d, i don't know how you do it. you have amazing patience.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
good lord. the only place this seems to be a concern is this board. i posted responses to the language because that's what the thread asked for. ultimately i'm not concerned about this incident because 1. this is only a concern on this board and not seemingly relevant to the rest of the nation. 2. i have other things to occupy my time.
but it seems that it doesn't matter what anyone says because it's not getting through apparently.
flywallyfly, your response about the scientific poll was great.
d2d, i don't know how you do it. you have amazing patience.
hahaha, seriously, i really don't have that kind of patience. i just at the moment have an enourmous amount of free time at work, my work is very much feast or famine......and sure, i am a wee bit anal retentive.
it is curious to me though, continually being baited with what was being 'dodged' and when, once again, i clearly spell it out...nada......
i will type in all caps so perhaps you will get it:
IT IS RACIALLY LOADED LANGUAGE AND COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.
THAT is what you seem to be dodging. you cannot admit it serves NO purpose whatsoever. i *GET* the analogy, the witty wordplay......but if ANY OTHER PERSON were elected president, one who was NOT BLACK...he'd not use the language, so WHY use it?
i've read thru this thread a couple times, yes...work really IS that slow at the moment, and i see my *points* conveniently ignored/dodged numerous times, i clearly stated my views, NOT racist, etc, etc, ad nauseuem...but...whatever..........c'est la vie.....
ummmm...thanks? why do some ppl take disagreements so personally?
I'm not taking it personally. I just give up trying to argue that what he said was wrong. Obviously many people who ignored his other misgivings and hypocritical stances surely will not suddenly see Nader for what he is. That is fine, it doesnt concern me for another 4 years. I'm done with Nader now ....
Comments
sigh indeed.
i KNOW he didn't CALL obama an uncle tom...nor an uncle sam. if you want to completely disregard the use of pejorative utilized ONLY for blacks, so be it. and as far as the immigrant comment, obviously a difference of opinion there.
as i said, if you support the use of the term, good for you....i prefer leaving out racially loaded language, i do not see it supporting anything positive. that's one kind of change i'd like to see in my lifetime....
actually, according to your interpretation..i should then feel left out and excluded by nader's comments, b/c obviously he only thinks if obama is a sellout to corporate interests, the only people he will harm is black americans. way to leave out a whole lot of americans in that scenario. as an 'uncle sam'...he works for us ALL...as an 'uncle tom'...he'd only harm black americans. you're right, tis an excellent comparison to make. :rolleyes:
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
ok, but i still think if obama turns our to be a sell out calling him an uncle tom is factually correct and i don't see it as a bad a term as 'nigger' or 'mau-mau' or something and i still say saying the voters of pennsylvania didn't vote for me b/c they don't like immigrants is pretty racial
do you think black americans have different interests than white americans?????
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
why use the term?
THAT's my point.
i've over 20+ posts on thsi thread, and whether factually correct or not...what's the point in usuing a racially loaded term? the only answers i've gotten so far:
- witty wordplay ( unwise to sacrifice your message for mere wordplay imo)
- getting airtime by using controverisal terms ( possible!)
- b/c it's accurate? ( i think usuing exclusionary and/or racially specific language isn't all that 'accurate)
obviously, it's a difference of opinion.....but it should not be assumed b/c some may think it's a poor choice does not mean we don't *get it*...we simply think it's a poor choice. at the end of the day, it doesn't make a shit of difference. i really don't care what nader says about obama or anyone really at this point. i participated in the TOPIC...and whether it was nader or ANYone, i would say the same thing...a poor wordchoice at best, and really...not all that accurate since it refers specifically to one race. we can go round and round.....and i still see it as such.
if you want to be seem as a leader, a unifier...a person working for the people and want ALL PEOPLE to focus on your message, imo, there are FAR BETTER ways of doing so, and language choice IS important. i'm all for witty wordplay...but not to the detriment of my message. whatever.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
and i think you shouldn't blame your loss of a primary on ppl being anti-immigrant
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
well in fairness...didn't you also quote them clinging to their guns and religion, along with being anit-immigrant? yes...what a slur!
whatever...way to dodge the issue, repeatedly, in the thread.
personally, i have yet to see one really good reason for anyone to support nader's comments. this comes the closest:
and yea, we're dealing. honestly, couldn't care less in the scheme of things...but if people are going to discuss the topic, the language, give it a fre pass...go for it. i will not be one of em, no matter who makes the comment and poorly chosen, even if he well thought it out.
i agree he's smart and chooses his words...i absolutely agree he meant it.
it's just not a meaning that i think is relevant.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
actually i'd prefer if you called it "witty wordplay."
cross the river to the eastside
nope. sure, may be your opinion...but i don't think too harshly at all. it's a CHOICE. and he willing chose, and reaffirmed racially loaded language. if it is merely implying 'following the line' or being 'sheep'...than leave the racial language aside and focus on your own message, not witty wordyplay. btw - i am not ignoring nader's message at all. point is this thread ISN'T about 'his message'...but rather about his word choice. he message, in and of itself....a-ok. we SHALL see what obama's presidency will hold, if he will be politics as usual or some much-needed change. however, for the point of this discussion...my focus is on language b/c that's what the discussion is about. bottomline, i think his message gets hurt b/c of words he chose to utlize...but as i've stated, it really doesn't matter to me one way or another at this point. whether nader or ANYone made this comment, i'd have said the same.
this has all been merely interesting language debate passing a few of my workdays....:)
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
try what? saying 'uncle tom' or calling them one?
i took your advice monday, i wrote down exactly what Nader said
and i showed it to 9 black ppl at work from all 3 shifts and asked them if they thought this was a racist thing to say
EVERY SINLE ONE OF THEM SAID NO b/c it was CALLING obama an uncle tom and they all said if he does sell out to corporations and ends up being 'just another typical politician' they would think he was an uncle tom
they even pointed out that it said in the middle 'we wish him well'
so it seems the only ppl who have a problem w/ this is you, victory gin, decides2dream, sweet potato....(white ppl who attack anyone other than obama and those who support them) and faux news....:rolleyes:
as a sort of bonus question i asked what they would think if mccain had lost our state (which he won) and blamed it on the ppl in our state clinging to guns and religion and being anti-immigrant? they all thought it would be a stupid thing to say and that he's trying to blame ppl for not voting for him b/c they didn't like him or what he had to say more than who they did vote for
ALSO, yesterday among 3 of them 1 mentioned some article that had a big list of rappers and narrowed it down to the best one 'of all time' (eminem) we talked a little about ppl that didn;t make it or make it far or didn't deserve to make it as far as they did...they seemed surprised that i knew so much about some older ones and i said i used to like it back in the day when it was about something, then it turned into a gimmick w/ a bunch of clowns and uncle tom's and the response was laughter, i suspect had i said 'a bunch of clowns and niggers' or kike or spick (or whatever others someone compared 'uncle tom' to) their reaction would be a bit different
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Nice experiment except you know them AND you work with them so I dont think they are gonna go off on you on the clock. Try it with random black people you have no connection to. Plus, dont show them what Nader said, just say it like it was from your head and your thought. Good luck.
LOL. Thanks for your scientific poll. I'm sure we are the only ones who thought that was a racist remark, lol. BTW, I dont have a problem with it because Nader is irrelevant to me so he can rant racist remarks all he wants. I will, however, point it out and chuckle at those Nader supporters that it does seem to bother and they will justify it as benign anyway they can.
wow.
that is by far the biggest crock of shit, and absolutely false i might add, that you have ever posted in regards to any comments i have made on this board. if you truly read all my posts on this subject, and even about the election, the candidates, etc...i by NO means attack anyone outside of obama, not byu a long shot...and i almost always post from a point of respect, as often as i can manage in any case.....but that's just a lie.
and once AGAIN, for the record...it has nothing to do with NADER saying it, he just happened to...my thoughts would be the same no matter WHO said it...and i also NEVER said it was racist! i said it was racially loaded language and unnecessary...and it is! it is based on race and is unnecessary, and rather exclusionary since it focuses only on blacks. sheesh.
disagree, fine.....but at least try and understand.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
i think if it said nigger instead of uncle tom they would have felt it was a racist statement even if it was written down. what is the difference of me saying it and them reading it? i didn't say who said it, i just showed the quote and asked them if they thought it was racist, i can almost guarantee they would've said yes had the word been nigger or kike
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Fine, if it makes you feel tingly about Nader then I'll retract all my negative statements about Nader. He is no racist. The man is my hero. I'm sorry I ever doubted the man. I swear I'll collect signatures for him to get on the ballot in Texas in 2012.
what am i dodging??
yeah deal w/ it that only you, flywallyfly, victory gin, sweetpotato and fox news care about this
i know he said the guns and religion, but those aren't racially motivated, you asked how they were, those aren't but saying someone didn't vote for me b/c they dislike immigrants IS
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
i must have missed your reply when i asked before? was it classy or 'witty wordplay' when obama said he lost the pennsylvania primary b/c the voters cling to their guns and religion and are anti-semtic?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
ummmm...thanks? why do some ppl take disagreements so personally?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
*bangs head*
i will type in all caps so perhaps you will get it:
IT IS RACIALLY LOADED LANGUAGE AND COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
TO YOU, FLYWALLYFLY, VICTORY GIN, SWEET POTATO, FOX NEWS AND.....NO ONE ELSE
what was i dodging?
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
*bangs head*
i will type in all caps so perhaps you will get it:
IT IS RACIALLY LOADED LANGUAGE AND COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY.
THAT is what you seem to be dodging. you cannot admit it serves NO purpose whatsoever. i *GET* the analogy, the witty wordplay......but if ANY OTHER PERSON were elected president, one who was NOT BLACK...he'd not use the language, so WHY use it?
and, once again...i have said, repeatedly...i DON'T CARE about his comments, would NOT have even KNOWN about them except for this thread! the topic of language usage interests me, and so i DISCUSSED the THREAD TOPIC!
and i am sorry, i STILL don't see how it is racially loaded to say one didn't vote for a candidate b/c they are anti-immigrant. i just don't see it. at all. but that wasn't even what this topic was about....it was about this one comment. that is all.
sorry, for seem reason i apparently must've hit 'submit' before i actually finished my post......:p
and btw - whether people will come out and say it or not, it IS racially loaded language, period. whether one thinks it's appropriate is entirely something else.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
Some one call the WAAAMMMMbulance....a big bad mean man called another person a term I don't like or didn't appreciate.
Seriously, how soft and pathetic is our society where words really hurt people? Not even directly, but indirectly - even worse!
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
hahahahahahahahahahaha!
awesome!
who's hurt?
and seriously, if that's all you get out of this...good for you.
some of us are interested in language, usage and intent. it's not *personal*...it's discussion.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
<a href="http://mudpuppy.wordpress.com">themudpuppy.com</a>
noted
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
Not to change topics, but I think the recent issue with Imus is a perfect example as well.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
good lord. the only place this seems to be a concern is this board. i posted responses to the language because that's what the thread asked for. ultimately i'm not concerned about this incident because 1. this is only a concern on this board and not seemingly relevant to the rest of the nation. 2. i have other things to occupy my time.
but it seems that it doesn't matter what anyone says because it's not getting through apparently.
flywallyfly, your response about the scientific poll was great.
d2d, i don't know how you do it. you have amazing patience.
cross the river to the eastside
hahaha, seriously, i really don't have that kind of patience. i just at the moment have an enourmous amount of free time at work, my work is very much feast or famine......and sure, i am a wee bit anal retentive.
it is curious to me though, continually being baited with what was being 'dodged' and when, once again, i clearly spell it out...nada......
i've read thru this thread a couple times, yes...work really IS that slow at the moment, and i see my *points* conveniently ignored/dodged numerous times, i clearly stated my views, NOT racist, etc, etc, ad nauseuem...but...whatever..........c'est la vie.....
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I'm not taking it personally. I just give up trying to argue that what he said was wrong. Obviously many people who ignored his other misgivings and hypocritical stances surely will not suddenly see Nader for what he is. That is fine, it doesnt concern me for another 4 years. I'm done with Nader now ....