Is American Idol Bad?

muppet · May 2008

iluvcats wrote:

how old are you? I used to like the partridge family too!

what's wrong with the Monkees?

Ewww,you like the Monkees? You KNOW they don't write their own songs.

iluvcats · May 2008

muppet wrote:

Ewww,you like the Monkees? You KNOW they don't write their own songs.

they did on their third album and looked who opened up for them
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:3ifrxqe5ldte~T1
you have to understand that I was in first grade in 1966 and I used to watch the Monkees on tv (prime time.) Same for the Partridge family in 1970.

muppet · May 2008

iluvcats wrote:

they did on their third album and looked who opened up for them
http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:3ifrxqe5ldte~T1
you have to understand that I was in first grade in 1966 and I used to watch the Monkees on tv (prime time.) Same for the Partridge family in 1970.

Sorry, I was quoting The Simpsons

South of Seattle · May 2008

YES

celebration · May 2008

iluvcats wrote:

how old are you? I used to like the partridge family too!

what's wrong with the Monkees?

I just used the Monkees and The Partridge Family as examples of shows that allowed you to discover music through tv, which is what AI does. The show(AI) puts music into millions of people's homes weekly, homes that before only had the option of watching Alf and Baywatch etc.

AI creates music fans. Once a music fan, always a music fan. These young people who buy Daughtry's cd don't necessarily grow up liking AI contestants for the rest of their lives. My tastes of music now are nothing liked what I got started on and believe me I was just grateful to have a reason to start my record collection. I don't regret from where I came from, cause I was just a kid.

Pearls&Stones · May 2008

Igottago wrote:

Nowadays kids have nothing..everything is pop..everything is plastic, everything is manufactured. Idol is just the tip of the fucking iceberg. And people just eat it up. Who knows, maybe the next Bob Dylan is out there...but we'll never hear him because you people are all "oh American Idol is such a cute show..I don't actually like the music, but damn, some of them can really sing! I wonder who will get voted off next!"

This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read.

The Monkees didn't stop the Beatles or the Rolling Stones in the 1960's

Star Search didn't stop U2 in the 1980's

New Kids on the Block didn't stop Pearl Jam

American Idol isn't going to destroy anything.

And I say it again, if you think the type of music you like has some substantial quality that pop music doesn't, you are just kidding yourself. It is just music.

MattyJoe · May 2008

They would like Cook as much as Linkin Park.

Kann · May 2008

Pearls&Stones wrote:

This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read.

It's not that ridiculous. It's much safer today to produce a show like Idol which is garanteed to make profits even before any album comes out than to bet on a local musician/band. It's not completely because of AI but sources of sure money like this does help.

And I say it again, if you think the type of music you like has some substantial quality that pop music doesn't, you are just kidding yourself. It is just music.

What?

iluvcats · May 2008

Pearls&Stones wrote:

This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read.

The Monkees didn't stop the Beatles or the Rolling Stones in the 1960's

Star Search didn't stop U2 in the 1980's

New Kids on the Block didn't stop Pearl Jam

American Idol isn't going to destroy anything.

And I say it again, if you think the type of music you like has some substantial quality that pop music doesn't, you are just kidding yourself. It is just music.

the monkees' show was created because of the beatles
(I agree with your statements)

iluvcats · May 2008

I don't like david cook. I've only seen him on a TV guide show (with an ex idol) where they recap AI. I can't figure out who DC is trying to be -- brandon boyd?

Thecure · May 2008

celebration wrote:

A lot of good opinions on both sides and what I like best about the show is that it brings music into people's homes, front and center, twice a week. Strictly based on the entertainment value it can be that bad. I would much rather have people enjoy AI rather than Dancing with Stars or shitty sit coms. People who didn't know who Bon Jovi and Tony Bennett are, now know, and now they have opinions based on real experience...be it good or bad...and who to say who's bad? Certainly Dolly Parton and Mariah Carey deserve some credit, whether you personally like them or not.

Everyone young kid start off liking cheese(I did) but as we grow older us kids who loved Britney, Back Street Men, The Monkees etc start to look around and they even sometimes find that their parent's music really isn't that bad, afterall. Or better yet they take their own path to find out what's valid. I notice it when I go to see Eric Clapton...young kids everywhere and that can't be a bad thing for music. Exposure to all kinds of music makes music fans. I'm not saying David Cook is the new Clapton but AI does open the door so people can find out more, if they so choose.

I absolutely love how some people rave about how this show is so bad and bad for the industry. It's actually comical to see people get so bent outta shape. Maybe it threatens their beliefs that pop music is actually kinda ok. Who ever mentioned Carrie Underwood is spot on. She's got the goods and so does Daughtry and David Cook, and this coming from someone who has seen it all and is an expert...cause ain't we all

finally, a reply that i like. all of us have to remember that we were once very young and listen to stuff that we would not like now but we grow up and with our interest in music in us we grow to listen to other music with so-called cred. i think it is great that kids are getting into music even if i don't like the music.

also i find it very funny that people talk abotu coroprate music as being bad but want the bands that they like to get a bigger push from those same coroporation.

edvedder913 · May 2008

Thecure wrote:

finally, a reply that i like. all of us have to remember that we were once very young and listen to stuff that we would not like now but we grow up and with our interest in music in us we grow to listen to other music with so-called cred. i think it is great that kids are getting into music even if i don't like the music.

also i find it very funny that people talk abotu coroprate music as being bad but want the bands that they like to get a bigger push from those same coroporation.

agreed - that was a good response.

there are things about the show i do not like - but they seem to be trying to improve. now they allow contestants to play instruments. the back up band is better. in the beginning i felt it was awful. yet, many of the winners have proved to be talented - whether it is your musical taste or not. carrie underwood's voice is phenomenal.

what i also like about the show is that it is one of the very few shows you can sit and watch with your children - family tv - and both enjoy it. it is me and my son's ritual every tuesday and wednesday.

i see the show as an oppty for the "nobody" to be discovered. yes it's commercial and corporate but most music is.

and david cook is the 1st contestant i would actually pay to see. i think he will do some great things

vitodacat · May 2008

vitodacat wrote:

it might suck, it might be good....but I got David Cook at 80:1, so I'll be watching

thank you David Cook......drinks are on the house

Igottago · May 2008

Pearls&Stones wrote:

This is the most ridiculous statement I have ever read.

The Monkees didn't stop the Beatles or the Rolling Stones in the 1960's

Star Search didn't stop U2 in the 1980's

New Kids on the Block didn't stop Pearl Jam

American Idol isn't going to destroy anything.

And I say it again, if you think the type of music you like has some substantial quality that pop music doesn't, you are just kidding yourself. It is just music.

You can't compare the musical landscape of yesteryear to what we have today. The industry has changed drastically. American Idol wont destroy anything, but it is a symptom of a much bigger problem.

And yes, I do think the music I listen to has substantially more quality than whatever is on Idol.

If music is "just music", then it pretty much destroys the reason most of us listens to Pearl Jam...i'm pretty sure most of us get way more out of Pearl Jam than we do out of the latest american Idol..and its a lot more than simply a catchy rythym to tap our foot along to.

By your logic, music = music...therefore Pearl Jam = Nsync.

Kids, this is what American Idol does to you.

libragirl · May 2008

This is the second season I have watched all the way through. I used to make fun of it

. I guess I'm a dork. I am so happy David Cook won. I am really looking forward to what he's going to do.

muppet · May 2008

Igottago wrote:

You can't compare the musical landscape of yesteryear to what we have today. The industry has changed drastically. American Idol wont destroy anything, but it is a symptom of a much bigger problem.

And yes, I do think the music I listen to has substantially more quality than whatever is on Idol.

If music is "just music", then it pretty much destroys the reason most of us listens to Pearl Jam...i'm pretty sure most of us get way more out of Pearl Jam
than we do out of the latest american Idol..and its a lot more than simply a catchy rythym to tap our foot along to.

By your logic, music = music...therefore Pearl Jam = Nsync.

Kids, this is what American Idol does to you.

Who's to say that they aren't equal to Pearl Jam? Music doesen't start and end at Pearl Jam.

I don't like Nsync, and I'm sure a lot of other people here don't either - but christ, we're on a Pearl Jam message board. But I know there would be a lot of teenage girls who disagree with you. Is their opinion not valid?

Igottago · May 2008

muppet wrote:

Who's to say that they aren't equal to Pearl Jam? Music doesen't start and end at Pearl Jam.

I don't like Nsync, and I'm sure a lot of other people here don't either - but christ, we're on a Pearl Jam message board. But I know there would be a lot of teenage girls who disagree with you. Is their opinion not valid?

No. You can use anything as an example of why this arguement is flawed on so many levels.

For example: I'm a mechanic...I've spent a lot of my life messing with car engines, studying how they operate, fixing friends cars, getting professional training, etc. Its safe to assume I know my shit when it comes to cars. On the other hand, there is my girlfriend...she knows what a tire is, knows what a steering wheel is, and basically understands that you put gas in a car and go..she bought her car because its a nice shade of red.

Is her opinion valid? Maybe on a very superficial level, sure. But who are you more likely to ask if you're trying to find out about the quality of a car? The mechanic, or the girlfriend?

Its the same thing in music..there are those that spend a lot of time listening to a huge variety of music, seek out new bands, go to a lot of shows, play in bands...and then there is the 14 year old girl who bought nsync because it was the flavour of the day.

Do you honestly think those 2 opinions are equal? If you are looking for some new music to listen to, are you going to ask the 14 year old girl? For your sake, I really hope not.

There is no equality of opinion when it comes to music, or any subject for that matter. There is those who know more, and those who know less. Sure they can express their opinion, but it doesn't hold much weight.

Jeremy1012 · May 2008

Igottago wrote:

Its the same thing in music..there are those that spend a lot of time listening to a huge variety of music, seek out new bands, go to a lot of shows, play in bands...and then there is the 14 year old girl who bought nsync because it was the flavour of the day.

Do you honestly think those 2 opinions are equal? If you are looking for some new music to listen to, are you going to ask the 14 year old girl? For your sake, I really hope not.

There is no equality of opinion when it comes to music, or any subject for that matter. There is those who know more, and those who know less. Sure they can express their opinion, but it doesn't hold much weight.

Agh. Fighting to stop head exploding from the sheer stupidity of this post.

Listen, I listen to a lot of music. Some very, very obscure and unusual music as well as more popular stuff. I listen to rock, jazz, blues, hardcore punk, classical, electronic, avant-garde, country, dub, hip-hop, klezmer, tango, qawwali, hindustani, noise, drone, ambient, metal. I listen to stuff your average 14 year-old 'Nsync fan will NEVER hear. Even so, the idea that my opinion is somehow more "expert" and of greater weight is SO fucking arrogant. Though I have around 1500 albums covering the genres I mentioned before and more, I will never have heard even 0.1% of the music out there and therefore the idea that I am somehow more knowledgable, while maybe true relatively, is still bullshit. Judging by the bands you have held up as examples of good music so far, limited seemingly to Pearl Jam and Nirvana, you have even less knowledge of music than myself and have simply no basis to your smug elitism. Of course I wouldn't go to a 14 year-old 'Nsync fan for music recommendations but I wouldn't judge her either. Christ almighty.

Here is what I have listened to in the last couple of days:

Ástor Piazzolla - Libertango
Ástor Piazzolla - La Camorra: The Solitude of Passionate Provocation
Eric Dolphy - Iron Man
Pharoah Sanders - Black Unity
Scientifik - Criminal
The Fall - This Nation's Saving Grace
Burning Spear - Marcus Garvey
Augustus Pablo - King Tubbys Meets Rockers Uptown
Scientist - Rids the World of the Evil Curse of the Vampires
Alice Coltrane - Journey in Satchidananda
Conlon Nancarrow - Studies for Player Piano
Isengrind / Twinsistermoon / Natural Snow Buildings - The Snowbringer Cult
Wasted Youth - Reagan's In
Natural Snow Buildings - The Dance of the Moon and the Sun
Li Jianhong - 三生石 (San Sheng Shi)
Hild Sofie Tafjord - Kama
Morton Feldman - Rothko Chapel; Why Patterns?
Planxty - Planxty
Jorge Ben - A Tábua de Esmeralda
Fryderyk Chopin - 24 préludes op.28
Allauddin Khan - Allauddin Khan Saheb

I ENJOY AMERICAN IDOL and other shows like it. Is it doing me harm?

muppet · May 2008

Igottago wrote:

No. You can use anything as an example of why this arguement is flawed on so many levels.

For example: I'm a mechanic...I've spent a lot of my life messing with car engines, studying how they operate, fixing friends cars, getting professional training, etc. Its safe to assume I know my shit when it comes to cars. On the other hand, there is my girlfriend...she knows what a tire is, knows what a steering wheel is, and basically understands that you put gas in a car and go..she bought her car because its a nice shade of red.

Is her opinion valid? Maybe on a very superficial level, sure. But who are you more likely to ask if you're trying to find out about the quality of a car? The mechanic, or the girlfriend?

Its the same thing in music..there are those that spend a lot of time listening to a huge variety of music, seek out new bands, go to a lot of shows, play in bands...and then there is the 14 year old girl who bought nsync because it was the flavour of the day.

Do you honestly think those 2 opinions are equal? If you are looking for some new music to listen to, are you going to ask the 14 year old girl? For your sake, I really hope not.

There is no equality of opinion when it comes to music, or any subject for that matter. There is those who know more, and those who know less. Sure they can express their opinion, but it doesn't hold much weight.

That's a stupid analogy. With mechanics, there's fundamental stuff that you need to know in order to understand. You need to learn it. That's not the case with music. One persons favourite artist is another persons most hated.

I probably wouldn't ask a 14 year old girl for an opinion on music, no. But that's becuase I probably wouldn't be into that sort of music.

To be honest, I think you're coming off as extremelly arrogant. This is music snobbery at its worst. I'm not making any claim that it's my favourite music, but I enjoy songs like "Umbrella" and "Soulja Boy." They're fun. Deep? No, I've got other bands for that. But who the fuck cares about "knowing" more about music? How do you define that? How many obscure B-side vinyls you have got, how many local concerts you've attended?

At the end of the day, music is subjective. Don't argue that, it just is. Of course there's going to be absoutle shite that you don't like. And of course there's going to be people who think exactly the opposite of you. There's no "golden age" or music, or whatever nostalgia some people seem to worship.

Igottago · May 2008

Jeremy1012 wrote:

Agh. Fighting to stop head exploding from the sheer stupidity of this post.

Listen, I listen to a lot of music. Some very, very obscure and unusual music as well as more popular stuff. I listen to rock, jazz, blues, hardcore punk, classical, electronic, avant-garde, country, dub, hip-hop, klezmer, tango, qawwali, hindustani, noise, drone, ambient, metal. I listen to stuff your average 14 year-old 'Nsync fan will NEVER hear. Even so, the idea that my opinion is somehow more "expert" and of greater weight is SO fucking arrogant. Though I have around 1500 albums covering the genres I mentioned before and more, I will never have heard even 0.1% of the music out there and therefore the idea that I am somehow more knowledgable, while maybe true relatively, is still bullshit. Judging by the bands you have held up as examples of good music so far, limited seemingly to Pearl Jam and Nirvana, you have even less knowledge of music than myself and have simply no basis to your smug elitism. Of course I wouldn't go to a 14 year-old 'Nsync fan for music recommendations but I wouldn't judge her either. Christ almighty.

Here is what I have listened to in the last couple of days:

Ástor Piazzolla - Libertango
Ástor Piazzolla - La Camorra: The Solitude of Passionate Provocation
Eric Dolphy - Iron Man
Pharoah Sanders - Black Unity
Scientifik - Criminal
The Fall - This Nation's Saving Grace
Burning Spear - Marcus Garvey
Augustus Pablo - King Tubbys Meets Rockers Uptown
Scientist - Rids the World of the Evil Curse of the Vampires
Alice Coltrane - Journey in Satchidananda
Conlon Nancarrow - Studies for Player Piano
Isengrind / Twinsistermoon / Natural Snow Buildings - The Snowbringer Cult
Wasted Youth - Reagan's In
Natural Snow Buildings - The Dance of the Moon and the Sun
Li Jianhong - 三生石 (San Sheng Shi)
Hild Sofie Tafjord - Kama
Morton Feldman - Rothko Chapel; Why Patterns?
Planxty - Planxty
Jorge Ben - A Tábua de Esmeralda
Fryderyk Chopin - 24 préludes op.28
Allauddin Khan - Allauddin Khan Saheb

I ENJOY AMERICAN IDOL and other shows like it. Is it doing me harm?

So I'm the elitist? i'm not the one who just listed a bunch of obscure music to prove how much i know. The 2 bands I mentioned (Nirvana and Pearl Jam) were simply to define someone who changed an era, and someone who most people here relate to. I wasn't getting into how much I know and how obscure I can go. My musical knowledge goes far beyond that. But I didn't feel the need to list it here.

Where did I say I judge the 14 year old? I've already stated before there is a place for everything in the musical landscape. I don't judge the 14 year old at all. I'm just not going to regard her musical opinion as the same as someone who goes a bit further with music. I might ask you.

I knew someone would pull the music snob/elitist card, but I'm not a music snob in the slightest. All I'm doing is putting forth a very solid argument as to why some opinions should be weighted more than others. You can apply this to anything. Next time you need legal advice, don't bother going to a lawyer, I have some opinions on the law, just PM me and I'll take care of you, okay?

Good for you, you watch the horrible show and you still listen to a lot of other music. You are the exception my friend, not the rule.

Is American Idol Bad?

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