Is American Idol Bad?

Jeremy1012

Igottago wrote:

Muppet even said that your arguement undermined itself.

When did I judge anyone? You've painted me with that brush. You've judged me.

Yes he did. Before I replied to him and clarified.

And here is where you judged people.

"If you actually like sitting there week by week watching these cookie cutter "artists" butcher some old classics, then you honestly aren't really that into music anymore. Just go ahead and buy the minivan, take the kids to soccer practice, and stand around the water cooler with the other moms and chat about how "rockin" the next Idol douchebag with a guitar is."

I don't think you can get more judgmental than that.

Now unless you have something constructive to add, it's been nice debating with you but I'm off.

Igottago

Jeremy1012 wrote:

Yes he did. Before I replied to him and clarified.

And here is where you judged people.

"If you actually like sitting there week by week watching these cookie cutter "artists" butcher some old classics, then you honestly aren't really that into music anymore. Just go ahead and buy the minivan, take the kids to soccer practice, and stand around the water cooler with the other moms and chat about how "rockin" the next Idol douchebag with a guitar is."

I don't think you can get more judgmental than that.

Now unless you have something constructive to add, it's been nice debating with you but I'm off.

Nah man, its just expressing an opinion, very strongly.

But it just goes to show, I can't understand why anyone who likes American Idol can like other "more serious" artists. It just doesnt add up.

But at least I stand by my arguements. You can't say that there is good and bad music and then in the next breath say music is purely subjective. That doesn't add up either.

facepollution

Jeremy1012 wrote:

I mean literally my current favourite artists are generally acclaimed by most listeners.

I'm having issues getting to grips with your argument here, on the one hand you are saying that one person's opinion is no more valid than another person's. But then you seem to be giving some level of credence to critical acclaim.

I can totally see where both you guys are coming from. Personally I have no issue with American Idol, I watched most of this season and enjoyed some of it. Bottom line for me, there were some great singers on there and the show entertains me. Although some people see it as being harsh on the contestants - that is the nature of the music business. It is an incredibly difficult industry to get into, and people will have their dreams shattered. But whilst being voted off is harsh, the exposure and the opportunity is huge, and one that most struggling artists will never get - si I don;t feel too bad for them.

I don't really see why so many people have an issue with the show. People who have a genuine interest in music will find their way past the generic stuff on the show. Hell, Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah made it to number 1 on Itunes because somebody on the show sang it - just think, millions of 'dumb 14 year old girls' checking out Jeff Buckley; that to me is very cool.

BlackCorduroy

I don't really have a problem with American Idol for reasons a lot of people already said.
Anyway, I don't really like David Cook just because he seems really arrogant and like the next Daughtry. Was any one else a Michael Johns or Carly fan? I thought they were very talented.

facepollution

BlackCorduroy wrote:

I don't really have a problem with American Idol for reasons a lot of people already said.
Anyway, I don't really like David Cook just because he seems really arrogant and like the next Daughtry. Was any one else a Michael Johns or Carly fan? I thought they were very talented.

I think there is a subtle difference between confidence and arrogance. I hate arrogant peope, but found David Cook to be very humble. I liked Carly a lot, she has an awesome voice but she picked some seriously shit songs that nowhere near did her justice.

mouthfulofsoup

facepollution wrote:

I think there is a subtle difference between confidence and arrogance. I hate arrogant peope, but found David Cook to be very humble. I liked Carly a lot, she has an awesome voice but she picked some seriously shit songs that nowhere near did her justice.

Agreed. I think David is very confident & people mistake that for arrogance. I watched a little of him on Larry King tonight & as with everything else I've seen him on, he was very well spoken & humble indeed. I didn't follow the show the whole time so can't comment completely on the others...well, except the obvious fact that Michael Johns is hot of course.

Jeremy1012

facepollution wrote:

I'm having issues getting to grips with your argument here, on the one hand you are saying that one person's opinion is no more valid than another person's. But then you seem to be giving some level of credence to critical acclaim.

I never said there was credence to critical acclaim. I said the music I listen to TENDS to be critically acclaimed but that's not why I listen to it. I listen to it because it's good and that is WHY it tends to be critically acclaimed. I couldn't give a shit for critical acclaim. As you know, I like Fall Out Boy and have already said I enjoy American Idol and these other shows

I don't understand how people have misconstrued what I said. My point in saying the music I listen to is critically acclaimed, whether I give a shit or not, is to prove to Igottago that people can listen to "real" music that he cares about preserving so much AND still watch American Idol.

pjfan020

it's probably the worst thing to happen to music. it's cute and funny when it's starsearch and there's 7 year olds, but this shit is terrible.

soclose

I'd rather see a singer with talent make it over a pop star with nothing but looks and an image to go on. Pop music is going to exist no matter what, so why not pick one great singer once a year to balance out the Britney Spears of the world?

It's not like they're pumping out new stars every week.

And as I'm sure others have already pointed out, if you don't like popular music today you're welcome to turn off your TVs and radios in favor of the internet or your own music collections.

facepollution

Jeremy1012 wrote:

I listen to it because it's good and that is WHY it tends to be critically acclaimed.

That kind of flies in the face of the point you are trying to make - you're implying that a collective social conscious is capable of deciding what is good and that that leads to critical acclaim. But then you're also denying that that has any worth at all.

So since Muse are a critically acclaimed band, does that make them good?!

Jeremy1012

facepollution wrote:

That kind of flies in the face of the point you are trying to make - you're implying that a collective social conscious is capable of deciding what is good and that that leads to critical acclaim. But then you're also denying that that has any worth at all.

So since Muse are a critically acclaimed band, does that make them good?!

How are you not understanding what I'm saying? I never said the critical acclaim of the music I listen to means anything, I said what I think of it does. I never said the worth of music is entirely subjective, I said appreciation of it is. I don't listen to the music I listen to because pitchfork or whoever like it, they just happen to as well. I only brought up that fact that it is "considered" good in general to speak in the terms that Igottago understands, that being music which is not considered by the supposed authorities to be "shallow pop trash".

Pearls&Stones

BlackCorduroy wrote:

Anyway, I don't really like David Cook just because he seems really arrogant and like the next Daughtry. .

Really? I didn't get that impression at all. I think Daughtry seemed pretty coo too, but the make-up has to go.

Clarice

pearljam4512 wrote:

I have to admit I've been watching. At first I didn't like the thought of "making it by winning a game" but my wife has me hooked. Here is how I see it. This David Cook guy is amazing and if it takes this game to get someone like this out in the music world go for it. I might never watch this show after he gets the boot but I'm hooked on this guy. Here is a song from his band that broke up a couple of years a go. This is truely an awesome song. What would Ed and the boys think of someone like this? A game show winner or a musician?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfsdygQ1laA

I think the right question is, American Idol is good? Bring any contribution for the musical scene? I dont believe, so...

Pearls&Stones

Igottago wrote:

If music is "just music", then it pretty much destroys the reason most of us listens to Pearl Jam

Pearl Jam is "just music."

Really that is all it is. It is lyrically deep music with a great vocalist and awesome instrumentation, but all it is, is just music.

I love Pearl Jam, I've seen them 13 times in concert and still want more. But it is nothing more than music. I also love other bands who write fantastic lyrics-such as U2, R.E.M. and Queen. I think they are among the artists that stand out over the rest. But, they have done nothing more for the world than NSync, Snoop Dogg, Neil Diamond or Weird Al. I am glad the fans of those artists (and I'm not saying I don't like some of them) have found music that they enjoy listening to.

When I blast "No Code" in my car, I am not doing anything better than the girl in the next lane listening to Carrie Underwood. Sure, I may think her music is horrible, but I don't try to make myself feel better by rationalizing that there is something more to what I am doing.

Igottago

Pearls&Stones wrote:

Pearl Jam is "just music."

Really that is all it is. It is lyrically deep music with a great vocalist and awesome instrumentation, but all it is, is just music.

I love Pearl Jam, I've seen them 13 times in concert and still want more. But it is nothing more than music. I also love other bands who write fantastic lyrics-such as U2, R.E.M. and Queen. I think they are among the artists that stand out over the rest. But, they have done nothing more for the world than NSync, Snoop Dogg, Neil Diamond or Weird Al. I am glad the fans of those artists (and I'm not saying I don't like some of them) have found music that they enjoy listening to.

When I blast "No Code" in my car, I am not doing anything better than the girl in the next lane listening to Carrie Underwood. Sure, I may think her music is horrible, but I don't try to make myself feel better by rationalizing that there is something more to what I am doing.

Yes, in the large scale of life, death, the sun, the moon, the stars, music is just music.

But we aren't here talking about that stuff, we are talking about musical opinions, so why is it that some of you feel so guilty when you express an opinion?

I would never think twice to say American Idol is pure evil.

Now, please realize, when I say that, I'm not saying American Idol is evil like Hitler, or like the Devil. I'm just saying that in terms of the musical landscape, in my opinion, American Idol is a detriment to the overall quality of what most people are being exposed to.

I'm not basing the value of human life in the cosmic universe on American Idol, so we can leave the little morality speeches out of the arguement completely.

Kann

Pearls&Stones wrote:

When I blast "No Code" in my car, I am not doing anything better than the girl in the next lane listening to Carrie Underwood. Sure, I may think her music is horrible, but I don't try to make myself feel better by rationalizing that there is something more to what I am doing.

So basically you think that no matter the effort and work someone puts in the music made, no matter how hard he studied music/musical theory the music he makes will have as much worth and impact than britney's next single. You're saying that Mozart's songs are musically equivalent to "oops I did it again"? Their is intrinsic value to music.

facepollution

Jeremy1012 wrote:

How are you not understanding what I'm saying? I never said the critical acclaim of the music I listen to means anything, I said what I think of it does. I never said the worth of music is entirely subjective, I said appreciation of it is. I don't listen to the music I listen to because pitchfork or whoever like it, they just happen to as well. I only brought up that fact that it is "considered" good in general to speak in the terms that Igottago understands, that being music which is not considered by the supposed authorities to be "shallow pop trash".

I get what you are saying within the context of this argument, and I agree that American Idol is pretty much harmless, particularly with regards to the music I listen to, it has no bearing on it at all. However I do agree with others that it's legitimate to call some music 'better' than other music - at least on a technical level. You seem to be opposing that, despite the fact you made the link between 'good music' and critical acclaim, which seems to be somewhat contradictary. What you essentially seem to be saying, is that becasue the music you listen to is (in your view) 'good', it tends to be critically acclaimed - implying that you have a better ear for 'good' music than say a typical Britney Spears fan.

Jeremy1012

facepollution wrote:

I get what you are saying within the context of this argument, and I agree that American Idol is pretty much harmless, particularly with regards to the music I listen to, it has no bearing on it at all. However I do agree with others that it's legitimate to call some music 'better' than other music - at least on a technical level. You seem to be opposing that, despite the fact you made the link between 'good music' and critical acclaim, which seems to be somewhat contradictary. What you essentially seem to be saying, is that becasue the music you listen to is (in your view) 'good', it tends to be critically acclaimed - implying that you have a better ear for 'good' music than say a typical Britney Spears fan.

No, I have already said that of course some music is better than other music, I have mentioned that I am a member of a website in which you catalogue, rate and review your music collection. I have stuff rated from 0.5-5/5. What I said was that no opinion on music is better. I wouldn't listen to music if I thought it was shit but if someone else did I wouldn't think I had better tastes than them, just different taste.

Let me put this in simple terms.

Johann Sebastian Bach > Duran Duran

Johann Sebastian Bach fan is not > Duran Duran fan

smithnic

American Idol is fantastic marketing machine. It's not about music and anyone who thinks it is, is "insain"! (from the AET)

Tony Kornheiser said it best when he was saying that if any of these people were actually talented they'd be signed and making millions already.

celebration

Clara Clareando wrote:

I think the right question is, American Idol is good? Bring any contribution for the musical scene? I dont believe, so...

I can't believe this thread is till going on.

AI helps music fans discover music...ultimately the answer of what is really good and what is really bad is vague at best, and certainly based on personal opinions. Everyone, imo, has a valid opinion, whether they like classical or pop music.

AI does no harm...it's a tv show and I am willing to bet that most of the people who actually watch it don't rush out to become the next David Cook fan...rather it's just merely for entertainment purposes only. It's basically for young kids and those kids change their tastes like the weather, especially as they get older.

Exposure to all kinds of types of music make one a better music fan.