What have we even heard from last year's winner? is she really corrupting the music industry?
that is exactly the problem though.
Last year's winner, like all the previous winners, ARE corrupting the music industry by being just another disposable product with a 6 month shelf-life.
legit artists are losing advertising dollars, tour support, etc... to the Idol people who get mass exposure for a short amount of time to capitalize on their short popularity.
They sink 50 million dollars into advertising for Clay Aiken, but 10 other artists put out records that aren't even given a half page advertisement in Rolling Stone
THAT is the problem. They are a product, not music. and real artists are suffering.
And when they ask their record companies why, they just say "oh, ummm, it's because of illegal downloading that you didn't get your 15 cent cut of the $15 price tag".....give me a fucking break. Real artists are being raped because of this shit.
Last year's winner, like all the previous winners, ARE corrupting the music industry by being just another disposable product with a 6 month shelf-life.
legit artists are losing advertising dollars, tour support, etc... to the Idol people who get mass exposure for a short amount of time to capitalize on their short popularity.
They sink 50 million dollars into advertising for Clay Aiken, but 10 other artists put out records that aren't even given a half page advertisement in Rolling Stone
THAT is the problem. They are a product, not music. and real artists are suffering.
And when they ask their record companies why, they just say "oh, ummm, it's because of illegal downloading that you didn't get your 15 cent cut of the $15 price tag".....give me a fucking break. Real artists are being raped because of this shit.
But do think that if there was no American Idol the record companies wouldn't still be signing "disposable" artists?
In 1999, there was no American Idol, but there was plenty of pure pop crap. Britney Spears, the backstreet boys, christina alguleira, just to name a few. The record companies started putting money into them instead of good rock bands way back then. Do I think this was "right"? Of course not, I want good bands I enjoy to get signed and get exposure. But American Idol is just a continuation of something that was happening anyway.
And unfortunately I don't think that will change. The record companies are doing SHIT for business right now, and it's about risk. It was safer for record companies to dump money into Britney Spears in 1999 than into some rock band- there will always be teanie boppers with their parents' money who like insipid pop. American Idol is genius business move because it cuts the risk way down-you've already tested whether the population will like the artist you sign. Is this a good thing for music at large? Hells no, I'm not claiming that. But there's also no solution- getting rid of American Idol isn't going to help the record company's business position. In fact, one COULD argue that if they make enough money off shit like this, they could have more to put into promoting quality bands that offer more risk.
Let's just get this straight- the music market is driven by supply, not demand. People need to be exposed to music to like something. Many people do not have the time/resources/inclination/whatever to weed through file sharing sites and indie record stores. None of us got into pearl jam because we stumbled upon them at some hole-in-the wall. We found out about them through the mainstream record business. Therefore, if the record companies have decided to cut risk by signing a disproprotionate number of bad pop acts, as they started to back in 1999, then there's not much can be done- as long as they produce it, people will come. If they put out a good band, people will like that too. The problem is, good rock bands haven't proven themselves to be fail-safe investments.
As a side note, the record companies know where they went wrong, that's why I said they dug their own graves. They are correct to say the downloads hurt their business, but only because they didn't adapt. They fought it instead of changing their business models. They know this, it was because of downloading but it was they who screwed up and they totally know that. It doesn't help them now though, they're still out of money and still don't have enough to take risks. Placing blame on whomever isn't gonna help the current situation.
But do think that if there was no American Idol the record companies wouldn't still be signing "disposable" artists?
There has always been pop music.
But this pop music happens to have a built in 45 million person fanbase.
We're in a whole new ballgame now.
They don't make people stars, they sign people who already have customers. (notice i said customers and not fans)
In fact, one COULD argue that if they make enough money off shit like this, they could have more to put into promoting quality bands that offer more risk.
That is not what is happening though. Record labels are folding, merging, and dumping their artists.
The problem is, good rock bands haven't proven themselves to be fail-safe investments.
Agreed, but the whole allure of rock music throughout history was that is was NOT safe. In any way. It was dangerous and rebelious and "devil's music" and "out there" and "bad for our kids"
It was about shrugging off the pretty boy singing about love to listen to the guy who had one too many acid trips because for some reason what he was saying about life seemed to make a whole hell of alot of sense.
What is it about this current generation that is so into being spoonfed plastic? Why does no one want art and meaningful lyrics?
We're in a war, there really should be more pissed off kids demanding something more.
As a side note, the record companies know where they went wrong, that's why I said they dug their own graves. The correct to say the downloads hurt their business, but only because they didn't adapt. They fought it instead of changing their business models. They know this, it was because of downloading but it was they who screwed up and they totally know that. It doesn't help them now though, they're still out of money and still don't have enough to take risks. Placing blame on whomever isn't gonna help the current situation.
i don't think anyone is blaming, but merely acknowledging the real problem with American Idol.
It's not about what they ARE, it's about what they are depriving us all for the FUTURE
A lot of good opinions on both sides and what I like best about the show is that it brings music into people's homes, front and center, twice a week. Strictly based on the entertainment value it can be that bad. I would much rather have people enjoy AI rather than Dancing with Stars or shitty sit coms. People who didn't know who Bon Jovi and Tony Bennett are, now know, and now they have opinions based on real experience...be it good or bad...and who to say who's bad? Certainly Dolly Parton and Mariah Carey deserve some credit, whether you personally like them or not.
Everyone young kid start off liking cheese(I did) but as we grow older us kids who loved Britney, Back Street Men, The Monkees etc start to look around and they even sometimes find that their parent's music really isn't that bad, afterall. Or better yet they take their own path to find out what's valid. I notice it when I go to see Eric Clapton...young kids everywhere and that can't be a bad thing for music. Exposure to all kinds of music makes music fans. I'm not saying David Cook is the new Clapton but AI does open the door so people can find out more, if they so choose.
I absolutely love how some people rave about how this show is so bad and bad for the industry. It's actually comical to see people get so bent outta shape. Maybe it threatens their beliefs that pop music is actually kinda ok. Who ever mentioned Carrie Underwood is spot on. She's got the goods and so does Daughtry and David Cook, and this coming from someone who has seen it all and is an expert...cause ain't we all
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Celebration, the ball's in play
I absolutely love how some people rave about how this show is so bad and bad for the industry. It's actually comical to see people get so bent outta shape.
To me, this is a very "young" view. I remember back in high school, it was so important to HATE music of lesser quality or cred. Hell, it was super tough for me to defend my position on pearl jam because they were mainstream. it's throwing stones, because *you're* not secure in *your* taste in music. You're afraid of being a poser. At some point you just grow out of that. I don't care that bad music exists because good music exists too. If people were to argue with me that John Mayer is good or something, sure I'll argue that, but I don't *care* that he's out there doing what he wants to do and making money off people who eat it up, that's *their* problem.
Maybe it threatens their beliefs that pop music is actually kinda ok. Who ever mentioned Carrie Underwood is spot on. She's got the goods and so does Daughtry and David Cook, and this coming from someone who has seen it all and is an expert...cause ain't we all
Also Underwood, Daughtry, and Cook are SINGERS. We might not like their style of music, but yes, they CAN sing. SINGING is what they do. If you are a pure singer, I think American Idol makes a lot of sense for you to audition for. Underwood, Daughtry, and Cook know that they are not some cool rock act, and they're not trying to be. They are trying to use their talent and make a career out of it. They're not trying to be the best song writers or the coolest front person. Honestly, if I could SING like any of them, I'm not sure I wouldn't audition for american idol. Some people just have a talent for singing, and this is area they can showcase it make something of it. Rock music as we consider it, on the other hand, isn't about being a technically proficient singer, it's more organic. It's two different beasts. I don't think it's right to say that singers don't have a place making a good career for themselves. It's just like what I was saying about Mariah Carey- her music is incredibly boring and bad and has very little meaning and I would never want to listen to it. But she can hit notes that only tiny percent of the population can. The boring music she makes allows her to do that. I almost think that being such a technically good singer like that would be detrimental to a rock band, it's too perfect. And that's not limited to singing...think of like super technical "popular" guitar players, I'm thinking like Eric Johnson or something- yeah you sit there and go "wow" when you hear it, but I don't think most people really *love* the songs and get into them, but that's ok because it's not the *point* of what he does.
A lot of good opinions on both sides and what I like best about the show is that it brings music into people's homes, front and center, twice a week. Strictly based on the entertainment value it can be that bad. I would much rather have people enjoy AI rather than Dancing with Stars or shitty sit coms. People who didn't know who Bon Jovi and Tony Bennett are, now know, and now they have opinions based on real experience...be it good or bad...and who to say who's bad? Certainly Dolly Parton and Mariah Carey deserve some credit, whether you personally like them or not.
Everyone young kid start off liking cheese(I did) but as we grow older us kids who loved Britney, Back Street Men, The Monkees etc start to look around and they even sometimes find that their parent's music really isn't that bad, afterall. Or better yet they take their own path to find out what's valid. I notice it when I go to see Eric Clapton...young kids everywhere and that can't be a bad thing for music. Exposure to all kinds of music makes music fans. I'm not saying David Cook is the new Clapton but AI does open the door so people can find out more, if they so choose.
I absolutely love how some people rave about how this show is so bad and bad for the industry. It's actually comical to see people get so bent outta shape. Maybe it threatens their beliefs that pop music is actually kinda ok. Who ever mentioned Carrie Underwood is spot on. She's got the goods and so does Daughtry and David Cook, and this coming from someone who has seen it all and is an expert...cause ain't we all
American Idol > Clapton
maybe this should be in the blasphemy thread...
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
There are different reasons I think so. For one, they dont even get to chose their own song. They can pick a song, but if the american idol people dont like it then, they have a choice of other songs that have been picked by the people.
So when the judges (which I will get to later) tell the person "I just dont think that song was you", its not like they could have helped it.
The judges are just there for drama and popularity, they dont have a say in who wins. So I dont regard the contestants as musicians (at least while on the show), just contestants. Because it comes down to whos the most popular, not whos the most talented.
as inoffensive, entertainment for the entire family I don't see anything wrong with it.
Killing the music industry? It's like a celebrity you thought was still alive but has actually been dead for years.
good music is out there, quit thinking about AI and go find it.
Agreed on every single point. Especially the last one.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
Simon Cowel is punk. No shit. His attitude is awesome.
I love Simon. I almost always agree with him too.
As I said I love Ryan Seacrest too. It hasn't been as obvious this season, but he really has a hilarious attitude up there if you really pay attention. I love the way he half-asses sponsor plugs and asks REALLY dumb questions on purpose, questions Simon's sexuality and makes fun of Paula.
As I said I love Ryan Seacrest too. It hasn't been as obvious this season, but he really has a hilarious attitude up there if you really pay attention. I love the way he half-asses sponsor plugs and asks REALLY dumb questions on purpose, questions Simon's sexuality and makes fun of Paula.
Seacrest is an awesome guy. I wouldn't say we are friends, but we've crossed paths professionally frequently over the years.
He's VERY smart, very cool and very not gay.
he's manipulated the idol machine to begin his own burgeoning empire.
and I thought the Monkees and The Partridge Family were the shit back then...I hadn't even heard of The Beatles...and that didn't make my view any less valid than someone who is/was old and jaded
I grew up as most people do and my love for music grew. So what I'm trying to say is that there is validity to liking less than perfect and most times it becomes a stepping stone to a brand new world
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Celebration, the ball's in play
I like the show. I haven't watched as much this year because for the first time ever the show is going up against a serious Pittsburgh Penguins Stanley Cup playoff run and nothing will divert my attention from that. But I don't see a problem with the show. Find singers, let them compete, let America decide. I don't see them as lesser artists than someone who sent their demo tape to every label in town or someone who got discovered in a coffee bar.
People who think one type of music is "disposable" think way too highly of the type of music they like. I prefer the lyrical substance of artists like Pearl Jam and R.E.M., but it really is only my opinion that it is better than pop music.
As for the argument about them just doing covers, they only have a week to prepare from one show to the next. From what I heard, they are pretty much up against the clock as it is. Writing songs in that span is a little much to ask.
And finally, if you don't like it, don't watch. I remember last year there were plenty of "Vote for Sanjaya---we need to stop American Idol" threads on here. There are 200 other tv channels, books, movies, video games and thousands of activities you can do outside of your house while the show is on. I think the idea of having to destroy what you don't like is really just immature.
I love my female wife...
we sit around and wonder exactly why our marriage should feel threatened by gay marriage
But this pop music happens to have a built in 45 million person fanbase.
We're in a whole new ballgame now.
They don't make people stars, they sign people who already have customers. (notice i said customers and not fans)
That is not what is happening though. Record labels are folding, merging, and dumping their artists.
Agreed, but the whole allure of rock music throughout history was that is was NOT safe. In any way. It was dangerous and rebelious and "devil's music" and "out there" and "bad for our kids"
It was about shrugging off the pretty boy singing about love to listen to the guy who had one too many acid trips because for some reason what he was saying about life seemed to make a whole hell of alot of sense.
What is it about this current generation that is so into being spoonfed plastic? Why does no one want art and meaningful lyrics?
We're in a war, there really should be more pissed off kids demanding something more.
i don't think anyone is blaming, but merely acknowledging the real problem with American Idol.
It's not about what they ARE, it's about what they are depriving us all for the FUTURE
I just want to acknowledge that this person knows what they are talking about. There is way too much of this "Idol is harmless and entertaining" bullshit being thrown around. Idol is shit. Idol is corrupting music. For fuck sakes, at least when I was growing up I had Nirvana and the alternative revolution to counteract all the pop shit that was around. Nowadays kids have nothing..everything is pop..everything is plastic, everything is manufactured. Idol is just the tip of the fucking iceberg. And people just eat it up. Who knows, maybe the next Bob Dylan is out there...but we'll never hear him because you people are all "oh American Idol is such a cute show..I don't actually like the music, but damn, some of them can really sing! I wonder who will get voted off next!" Please don't try to act there is some legitimacy to this program, because there is none. If you enjoy it, fine, but don't pretend that you still have some rock n' roll credibility, because you don't. If you actually like sitting there week by week watching these cookie cutter "artists" butcher some old classics, then you honestly aren't really that into music anymore. Just go ahead and buy the minivan, take the kids to soccer practice, and stand around the water cooler with the other moms and chat about how "rockin" the next Idol douchebag with a guitar is.
I just want to acknowledge that this person knows what they are talking about. There is way too much of this "Idol is harmless and entertaining" bullshit being thrown around. Idol is shit. Idol is corrupting music. For fuck sakes, at least when I was growing up I had Nirvana and the alternative revolution to counteract all the pop shit that was around. Nowadays kids have nothing..everything is pop..everything is plastic, everything is manufactured. Idol is just the tip of the fucking iceberg. And people just eat it up. Who knows, maybe the next Bob Dylan is out there...but we'll never hear him because you people are all "oh American Idol is such a cute show..I don't actually like the music, but damn, some of them can really sing! I wonder who will get voted off next!" Please don't try to act there is some legitimacy to this program, because there is none. If you enjoy it, fine, but don't pretend that you still have some rock n' roll credibility, because you don't. If you actually like sitting there week by week watching these cookie cutter "artists" butcher some old classics, then you honestly aren't really that into music anymore. Just go ahead and buy the minivan, take the kids to soccer practice, and stand around the water cooler with the other moms and chat about how "rockin" the next Idol douchebag with a guitar is.
Okay, you're not a fan. I'm not either. But American Idol isn't the be-all-end of music. If you think that it's a good representation of todays music, then you're not looking hard enough. Turn off the Top 40 radio. There's always been shitty music.
I just want to acknowledge that this person knows what they are talking about. There is way too much of this "Idol is harmless and entertaining" bullshit being thrown around. Idol is shit. Idol is corrupting music. For fuck sakes, at least when I was growing up I had Nirvana and the alternative revolution to counteract all the pop shit that was around. Nowadays kids have nothing..everything is pop..everything is plastic, everything is manufactured. Idol is just the tip of the fucking iceberg. And people just eat it up. Who knows, maybe the next Bob Dylan is out there...but we'll never hear him because you people are all "oh American Idol is such a cute show..I don't actually like the music, but damn, some of them can really sing! I wonder who will get voted off next!" Please don't try to act there is some legitimacy to this program, because there is none. If you enjoy it, fine, but don't pretend that you still have some rock n' roll credibility, because you don't. If you actually like sitting there week by week watching these cookie cutter "artists" butcher some old classics, then you honestly aren't really that into music anymore. Just go ahead and buy the minivan, take the kids to soccer practice, and stand around the water cooler with the other moms and chat about how "rockin" the next Idol douchebag with a guitar is.
No. You are quite wrong. I don't think anyone here, save perhaps the OP, is saying they would actually buy the music. Some of us enjoy the shallow, ridiculous entertainment when watching on TV. To say that I'm not really into music anymore and I should buy a minivan is laughable. People seem to develop some kind of rose-tinted retrospectacles when thinking about the past. This is a new format for the same bullshit manufacturing of pop that has existed since popular music began. There is still incredible, fresh music out there that is being made, being enjoyed and being experienced live by people who don't live for whatever shite is being distributed by the major labels these days. American Idol is killing the music industry? Bollocks. The kind of bands that are worth hearing these days are the kind of bands who would never get that hallowed deal from Geffen or Universal in a million years these days anyway. The days of needing a poster boy "real band" for these labels like Sonic Youth or Nirvana (the latter of which were, in their own way, as commercial as any American Idol artist, don't kid yourself) are long over. The labels have got their cash same as they ever have. If you let American Idol convince you that music is dead then you're missing out considerably.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
I just want to acknowledge that this person knows what they are talking about. There is way too much of this "Idol is harmless and entertaining" bullshit being thrown around. Idol is shit. Idol is corrupting music. For fuck sakes, at least when I was growing up I had Nirvana and the alternative revolution to counteract all the pop shit that was around. Nowadays kids have nothing..everything is pop..everything is plastic, everything is manufactured. Idol is just the tip of the fucking iceberg. And people just eat it up. Who knows, maybe the next Bob Dylan is out there...but we'll never hear him because you people are all "oh American Idol is such a cute show..I don't actually like the music, but damn, some of them can really sing! I wonder who will get voted off next!" Please don't try to act there is some legitimacy to this program, because there is none. If you enjoy it, fine, but don't pretend that you still have some rock n' roll credibility, because you don't. If you actually like sitting there week by week watching these cookie cutter "artists" butcher some old classics, then you honestly aren't really that into music anymore. Just go ahead and buy the minivan, take the kids to soccer practice, and stand around the water cooler with the other moms and chat about how "rockin" the next Idol douchebag with a guitar is.
It's just entertainment, man...
To say that people who enjoy watching the show "aren't really into music anymore" is way off base. The fact that they watch it only tells me that they probably at least like music.
Suppose someone liked an idol's version of Jeremy and found the original song online and discovered PJ because of it...that can't be all bad.
Also worth noting is the number of artists that have allowed their songs to be sung on the program(Springsteen, Lennon/Mc,PJ etc) and the variety of artists that have supported the show by appearing live. The list is impressive. But maybe you don't have any respect for Tony Bennett, Neil Diamond, Jon Bon Jovi, Dolly Parton, Joe Perry, Annie Lennox, John Legend, Jewel, Martina Mcbride, Diana Ross, Brain May, Rod Stewart, Kenny Rogers, Gwen Stefani, Pink, Andrea Bocelli, Stevie Wonder etc
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Celebration, the ball's in play
No. You are quite wrong. I don't think anyone here, save perhaps the OP, is saying they would actually buy the music. Some of us enjoy the shallow, ridiculous entertainment when watching on TV. To say that I'm not really into music anymore and I should buy a minivan is laughable. People seem to develop some kind of rose-tinted retrospectacles when thinking about the past. This is a new format for the same bullshit manufacturing of pop that has existed since popular music began. There is still incredible, fresh music out there that is being made, being enjoyed and being experienced live by people who don't live for whatever shite is being distributed by the major labels these days. American Idol is killing the music industry? Bollocks. The kind of bands that are worth hearing these days are the kind of bands who would never get that hallowed deal from Geffen or Universal in a million years these days anyway. The days of needing a poster boy "real band" for these labels like Sonic Youth or Nirvana (the latter of which were, in their own way, as commercial as any American Idol artist, don't kid yourself) are long over. The labels have got their cash same as they ever have. If you let American Idol convince you that music is dead then you're missing out considerably.
Who are you trying to convince, me, or yourself? I hate American Idol and don't watch it...I spend my time finding the good stuff and listening to it...I'm just calling a spade a spade. You seem to need to backup your enjoyment of the show...well, whatever, go ahead and watch it...it doesn't change the fact that it is shit.
To say that American Idol has no affect on the music industry though, is ignorant. Its a machine..a giant money making machine. Let me put it this way..when I was a kid growing up, Nirvana and Pearl Jam got a lot of exposure..it helped me get into some styles of music that I never would've heard of before at that point. It was important in my development as a music fan to have bands like that actually have some maintstream success, and then it made me explore music with a lot more depth, and seek out different artists.
But now, bands of that calibur get zero exposure. None. Do you think some 13-15 year old kid knows who My Morning Jacket is? Why not? They aren't gonna go on the internet and read pitchfork..they are going to listen to what their friends listen to. And their friends are either listening to the current American Idol, whoever the flavour of the week is, or they are listening to Soldier Boy or something like that.
I agree,pop music has always existed, and there is a place for it..but at least good stuff got some recognition too. Look at MTV or MuchMusic for example...when I was growing up they actually played music videos..and they were a legitimate source to discover some decent artists. Now they are completely different formats. When Music Television doesn't play music, then you know things have changed.
I'm not arguing that there is no place for pop music, but I think the pendelum has swung way too far in that direction. Thus, I hate American Idol. It may not be the source of the problem, but it is still an annoying part of it. I can't really understand any enjoyment of the show other than the first couple of episodes where they funny auditions happen. I'd rather spend my time on something of at least some mild entertainment quality. American Idol is like watching paint dry. In fact, I'd rather watch paint dry.
Who are you trying to convince, me, or yourself? I hate American Idol and don't watch it...I spend my time finding the good stuff and listening to it...I'm just calling a spade a spade. You seem to need to backup your enjoyment of the show...well, whatever, go ahead and watch it...it doesn't change the fact that it is shit.
I'm trying to convince you but if I can't, frankly I don't really give a shit, I'm just giving voice to the countless people on here who probably listen to more varied and respectable shit than yourself who still don't feel the need to get uppity about a fucking TV programme and don't like being told that they are a soulless, tasteless moron. If you knew one inkling about my tastes in music you'd know I've got no time for any American Idol bullshit, like I said earlier in the thread, it's got fuck all to do with music. It's entertainment. I enjoy seeing the hilarious auditions and I even enjoy watching the mediocre covers on the live show. It's harmless TV and it does bugger all to change the industry for the BANDS WHO ACTUALLY MATTER. The bands who never would have got a deal from a big label anyway so they aren't being left out to dry in favour of shitty AI singers, they're not being affected in anyway. When I want to hear some good shit I'll look to artists on Constellation, Warp Records and Students of Decay. I don't give two shits about how the major labels are affecting music and neither do these bands. Some people do it for the love of the music and they happen to be some of the best bands out there. If some 15 year-old kid misses out on music because he doesn't have the initiative to go and find out for himself from the sheer love of it then he doesn't deserve to hear good music. I'm too young to have listened to music when Nirvana and your other apparent mainstream-but-artistically-sound bands hit. I grew up in this commercial wasteland and I found my own way. No reality TV hindered me because I have my own mind.
I don't need to backup my enjoyment of the show at all. It's harmless trash. I say that happily. If you pity me for that, so be it. I recommend you save your pity for someone who deserves it and gives a shit though. Sometimes I like watching harmless trash. When it's done I'll go and listen to some panamanian psych-jazz and then maybe some Prince to balance it out and say fuck your elitist bullshit, I can enjoy a selection of things and don't need to justify that to anyone.
Have a nice day.
"I remember one night at Muzdalifa with nothing but the sky overhead, I lay awake amid sleeping Muslim brothers and I learned that pilgrims from every land — every colour, and class, and rank; high officials and the beggar alike — all snored in the same language"
The question at that start of this thread has to be rhetorical. Even in a world where crappy music is almost the norm, I can't bring myself to watch American Idol.
"Buy the ticket,take the ride"
Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
"If I wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better"
Johan Cruijff
and I thought the Monkees and The Partridge Family were the shit back then...I hadn't even heard of The Beatles...and that didn't make my view any less valid than someone who is/was old and jaded
I grew up as most people do and my love for music grew. So what I'm trying to say is that there is validity to liking less than perfect and most times it becomes a stepping stone to a brand new world
how old are you? I used to like the partridge family too!
what's wrong with the Monkees?
9/98, 9/00 - DC, 4/03 - Pitt., 7/03 - Bristow, 10/04 - Reading, 10/05 - Philly, 5/06 - DC, 6/06 - Pitt., 6/08 - Va Beach, 6/08 - DC, 5/10 - Bristow, 10/13 B'more
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more
Comments
that is exactly the problem though.
Last year's winner, like all the previous winners, ARE corrupting the music industry by being just another disposable product with a 6 month shelf-life.
legit artists are losing advertising dollars, tour support, etc... to the Idol people who get mass exposure for a short amount of time to capitalize on their short popularity.
They sink 50 million dollars into advertising for Clay Aiken, but 10 other artists put out records that aren't even given a half page advertisement in Rolling Stone
THAT is the problem. They are a product, not music. and real artists are suffering.
And when they ask their record companies why, they just say "oh, ummm, it's because of illegal downloading that you didn't get your 15 cent cut of the $15 price tag".....give me a fucking break. Real artists are being raped because of this shit.
But do think that if there was no American Idol the record companies wouldn't still be signing "disposable" artists?
In 1999, there was no American Idol, but there was plenty of pure pop crap. Britney Spears, the backstreet boys, christina alguleira, just to name a few. The record companies started putting money into them instead of good rock bands way back then. Do I think this was "right"? Of course not, I want good bands I enjoy to get signed and get exposure. But American Idol is just a continuation of something that was happening anyway.
And unfortunately I don't think that will change. The record companies are doing SHIT for business right now, and it's about risk. It was safer for record companies to dump money into Britney Spears in 1999 than into some rock band- there will always be teanie boppers with their parents' money who like insipid pop. American Idol is genius business move because it cuts the risk way down-you've already tested whether the population will like the artist you sign. Is this a good thing for music at large? Hells no, I'm not claiming that. But there's also no solution- getting rid of American Idol isn't going to help the record company's business position. In fact, one COULD argue that if they make enough money off shit like this, they could have more to put into promoting quality bands that offer more risk.
Let's just get this straight- the music market is driven by supply, not demand. People need to be exposed to music to like something. Many people do not have the time/resources/inclination/whatever to weed through file sharing sites and indie record stores. None of us got into pearl jam because we stumbled upon them at some hole-in-the wall. We found out about them through the mainstream record business. Therefore, if the record companies have decided to cut risk by signing a disproprotionate number of bad pop acts, as they started to back in 1999, then there's not much can be done- as long as they produce it, people will come. If they put out a good band, people will like that too. The problem is, good rock bands haven't proven themselves to be fail-safe investments.
As a side note, the record companies know where they went wrong, that's why I said they dug their own graves. They are correct to say the downloads hurt their business, but only because they didn't adapt. They fought it instead of changing their business models. They know this, it was because of downloading but it was they who screwed up and they totally know that. It doesn't help them now though, they're still out of money and still don't have enough to take risks. Placing blame on whomever isn't gonna help the current situation.
There has always been pop music.
But this pop music happens to have a built in 45 million person fanbase.
We're in a whole new ballgame now.
They don't make people stars, they sign people who already have customers. (notice i said customers and not fans)
That is not what is happening though. Record labels are folding, merging, and dumping their artists.
Agreed, but the whole allure of rock music throughout history was that is was NOT safe. In any way. It was dangerous and rebelious and "devil's music" and "out there" and "bad for our kids"
It was about shrugging off the pretty boy singing about love to listen to the guy who had one too many acid trips because for some reason what he was saying about life seemed to make a whole hell of alot of sense.
What is it about this current generation that is so into being spoonfed plastic? Why does no one want art and meaningful lyrics?
We're in a war, there really should be more pissed off kids demanding something more.
i don't think anyone is blaming, but merely acknowledging the real problem with American Idol.
It's not about what they ARE, it's about what they are depriving us all for the FUTURE
Everyone young kid start off liking cheese(I did) but as we grow older us kids who loved Britney, Back Street Men, The Monkees etc start to look around and they even sometimes find that their parent's music really isn't that bad, afterall. Or better yet they take their own path to find out what's valid. I notice it when I go to see Eric Clapton...young kids everywhere and that can't be a bad thing for music. Exposure to all kinds of music makes music fans. I'm not saying David Cook is the new Clapton but AI does open the door so people can find out more, if they so choose.
I absolutely love how some people rave about how this show is so bad and bad for the industry. It's actually comical to see people get so bent outta shape. Maybe it threatens their beliefs that pop music is actually kinda ok. Who ever mentioned Carrie Underwood is spot on. She's got the goods and so does Daughtry and David Cook, and this coming from someone who has seen it all and is an expert...cause ain't we all
Celebration, the ball's in play
"To question your government is not unpatriotic --
to not question your government is unpatriotic."
-- Sen. Chuck Hagel
To me, this is a very "young" view. I remember back in high school, it was so important to HATE music of lesser quality or cred. Hell, it was super tough for me to defend my position on pearl jam because they were mainstream. it's throwing stones, because *you're* not secure in *your* taste in music. You're afraid of being a poser. At some point you just grow out of that. I don't care that bad music exists because good music exists too. If people were to argue with me that John Mayer is good or something, sure I'll argue that, but I don't *care* that he's out there doing what he wants to do and making money off people who eat it up, that's *their* problem.
Also Underwood, Daughtry, and Cook are SINGERS. We might not like their style of music, but yes, they CAN sing. SINGING is what they do. If you are a pure singer, I think American Idol makes a lot of sense for you to audition for. Underwood, Daughtry, and Cook know that they are not some cool rock act, and they're not trying to be. They are trying to use their talent and make a career out of it. They're not trying to be the best song writers or the coolest front person. Honestly, if I could SING like any of them, I'm not sure I wouldn't audition for american idol. Some people just have a talent for singing, and this is area they can showcase it make something of it. Rock music as we consider it, on the other hand, isn't about being a technically proficient singer, it's more organic. It's two different beasts. I don't think it's right to say that singers don't have a place making a good career for themselves. It's just like what I was saying about Mariah Carey- her music is incredibly boring and bad and has very little meaning and I would never want to listen to it. But she can hit notes that only tiny percent of the population can. The boring music she makes allows her to do that. I almost think that being such a technically good singer like that would be detrimental to a rock band, it's too perfect. And that's not limited to singing...think of like super technical "popular" guitar players, I'm thinking like Eric Johnson or something- yeah you sit there and go "wow" when you hear it, but I don't think most people really *love* the songs and get into them, but that's ok because it's not the *point* of what he does.
maybe this should be in the blasphemy thread...
There are different reasons I think so. For one, they dont even get to chose their own song. They can pick a song, but if the american idol people dont like it then, they have a choice of other songs that have been picked by the people.
So when the judges (which I will get to later) tell the person "I just dont think that song was you", its not like they could have helped it.
The judges are just there for drama and popularity, they dont have a say in who wins. So I dont regard the contestants as musicians (at least while on the show), just contestants. Because it comes down to whos the most popular, not whos the most talented.
Dont do it, its not worth it!
"Its a secret to everybody."
really bad
Killing the music industry? It's like a celebrity you thought was still alive but has actually been dead for years.
good music is out there, quit thinking about AI and go find it.
me too.
Simon Cowel is punk. No shit. His attitude is awesome.
I love Simon. I almost always agree with him too.
As I said I love Ryan Seacrest too. It hasn't been as obvious this season, but he really has a hilarious attitude up there if you really pay attention. I love the way he half-asses sponsor plugs and asks REALLY dumb questions on purpose, questions Simon's sexuality and makes fun of Paula.
Then you will love this: simon cowel and jeremy clarkson from top gear, two rude, arrogant, british assholes. I love it!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=NzHure-YBmA
8/7/08, 6/9/09
Seacrest is an awesome guy. I wouldn't say we are friends, but we've crossed paths professionally frequently over the years.
He's VERY smart, very cool and very not gay.
he's manipulated the idol machine to begin his own burgeoning empire.
If that's not cool, I don't know what is,
To me, he is the 1st performer to ever come out of this god awful show that I would actually love to see live.
and I thought the Monkees and The Partridge Family were the shit back then...I hadn't even heard of The Beatles...and that didn't make my view any less valid than someone who is/was old and jaded
I grew up as most people do and my love for music grew. So what I'm trying to say is that there is validity to liking less than perfect and most times it becomes a stepping stone to a brand new world
Celebration, the ball's in play
People who think one type of music is "disposable" think way too highly of the type of music they like. I prefer the lyrical substance of artists like Pearl Jam and R.E.M., but it really is only my opinion that it is better than pop music.
As for the argument about them just doing covers, they only have a week to prepare from one show to the next. From what I heard, they are pretty much up against the clock as it is. Writing songs in that span is a little much to ask.
And finally, if you don't like it, don't watch. I remember last year there were plenty of "Vote for Sanjaya---we need to stop American Idol" threads on here. There are 200 other tv channels, books, movies, video games and thousands of activities you can do outside of your house while the show is on. I think the idea of having to destroy what you don't like is really just immature.
we sit around and wonder exactly why our marriage should feel threatened by gay marriage
I just want to acknowledge that this person knows what they are talking about. There is way too much of this "Idol is harmless and entertaining" bullshit being thrown around. Idol is shit. Idol is corrupting music. For fuck sakes, at least when I was growing up I had Nirvana and the alternative revolution to counteract all the pop shit that was around. Nowadays kids have nothing..everything is pop..everything is plastic, everything is manufactured. Idol is just the tip of the fucking iceberg. And people just eat it up. Who knows, maybe the next Bob Dylan is out there...but we'll never hear him because you people are all "oh American Idol is such a cute show..I don't actually like the music, but damn, some of them can really sing! I wonder who will get voted off next!" Please don't try to act there is some legitimacy to this program, because there is none. If you enjoy it, fine, but don't pretend that you still have some rock n' roll credibility, because you don't. If you actually like sitting there week by week watching these cookie cutter "artists" butcher some old classics, then you honestly aren't really that into music anymore. Just go ahead and buy the minivan, take the kids to soccer practice, and stand around the water cooler with the other moms and chat about how "rockin" the next Idol douchebag with a guitar is.
Okay, you're not a fan. I'm not either. But American Idol isn't the be-all-end of music. If you think that it's a good representation of todays music, then you're not looking hard enough. Turn off the Top 40 radio. There's always been shitty music.
THE MUSIC BUSINESS IS DEAD!! IT HAS BEEN FOR YEARS!!
there's this thing called the internet, perhaps you've heard of it?
If you haven't, It's where you find bands and buy their music.
there's always been crappy music that sells like hotcakes.
New Kids in the 90s, Milli Vanilli in the 80s, Brittany, Ricky Martin etc
11 year old girls will buy ANYTHING!
if you hate American Idol, ignore it. You guys look like a bunch of elitist haters.
Jack Black in High Fidelity...
you get the picture.
It's just entertainment, man...
To say that people who enjoy watching the show "aren't really into music anymore" is way off base. The fact that they watch it only tells me that they probably at least like music.
Suppose someone liked an idol's version of Jeremy and found the original song online and discovered PJ because of it...that can't be all bad.
Also worth noting is the number of artists that have allowed their songs to be sung on the program(Springsteen, Lennon/Mc,PJ etc) and the variety of artists that have supported the show by appearing live. The list is impressive. But maybe you don't have any respect for Tony Bennett, Neil Diamond, Jon Bon Jovi, Dolly Parton, Joe Perry, Annie Lennox, John Legend, Jewel, Martina Mcbride, Diana Ross, Brain May, Rod Stewart, Kenny Rogers, Gwen Stefani, Pink, Andrea Bocelli, Stevie Wonder etc
Celebration, the ball's in play
Who are you trying to convince, me, or yourself? I hate American Idol and don't watch it...I spend my time finding the good stuff and listening to it...I'm just calling a spade a spade. You seem to need to backup your enjoyment of the show...well, whatever, go ahead and watch it...it doesn't change the fact that it is shit.
To say that American Idol has no affect on the music industry though, is ignorant. Its a machine..a giant money making machine. Let me put it this way..when I was a kid growing up, Nirvana and Pearl Jam got a lot of exposure..it helped me get into some styles of music that I never would've heard of before at that point. It was important in my development as a music fan to have bands like that actually have some maintstream success, and then it made me explore music with a lot more depth, and seek out different artists.
But now, bands of that calibur get zero exposure. None. Do you think some 13-15 year old kid knows who My Morning Jacket is? Why not? They aren't gonna go on the internet and read pitchfork..they are going to listen to what their friends listen to. And their friends are either listening to the current American Idol, whoever the flavour of the week is, or they are listening to Soldier Boy or something like that.
I agree,pop music has always existed, and there is a place for it..but at least good stuff got some recognition too. Look at MTV or MuchMusic for example...when I was growing up they actually played music videos..and they were a legitimate source to discover some decent artists. Now they are completely different formats. When Music Television doesn't play music, then you know things have changed.
I'm not arguing that there is no place for pop music, but I think the pendelum has swung way too far in that direction. Thus, I hate American Idol. It may not be the source of the problem, but it is still an annoying part of it. I can't really understand any enjoyment of the show other than the first couple of episodes where they funny auditions happen. I'd rather spend my time on something of at least some mild entertainment quality. American Idol is like watching paint dry. In fact, I'd rather watch paint dry.
I don't need to backup my enjoyment of the show at all. It's harmless trash. I say that happily. If you pity me for that, so be it. I recommend you save your pity for someone who deserves it and gives a shit though. Sometimes I like watching harmless trash. When it's done I'll go and listen to some panamanian psych-jazz and then maybe some Prince to balance it out and say fuck your elitist bullshit, I can enjoy a selection of things and don't need to justify that to anyone.
Have a nice day.
*Official Marker in the Sand Fan Club Junkie*
Member # 0003
wont let the light escape from me
wont let the darkness swallow me
Dr. Hunter S. Thompson
"If I wanted you to understand, I would have explained it better"
Johan Cruijff
how old are you? I used to like the partridge family too!
what's wrong with the Monkees?
8/08 - Ed solo in DC, 6/09 Ed in B'more,
10/10 - Brad in B'more