Radio host waterboarded live on air

ledvedderman

prfctlefts wrote:

Like what ?

Just from the previous page of this thread...

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=99258&start=45#p2299864

Cosmo

I think the basic premise of the original thought of this de-railed thread is that they probably would have been able to get Mancow to confess to killing Kennedy. Regardless of all the excuses... after 6 seconds he folded... if waterboarded again... then, threatened a third time... he'd confess to anything.
The question that needs to be answered is this:
What is the quality of the information obtained by these tactics? And...
Is the information ALL the information... or just enough to end the interrogation?

WaveCameCrashin

sorry I get a little heated sometimes,when it comes to these issues and I take it very personal

WaveCameCrashin

man fucking blood is going too shoot out of my eye balls if we have to go down this road again. Only 3 detainees were water boarded and they were KSM who was one of the master minds of 911 and yeah he was WB like 185 times but so the fuck what he was responsible for the deaths of 3000 people :x and not only did he admit to doing so he was proud of what he and his shit bags did :x

_

prfctlefts wrote:

man fucking blood is going too shoot out of my eye balls if we have to go down this road again. Only 3 detainees were water boarded and they were KSM who was one of the master minds of 911 and yeah he was WB like 185 times but so the fuck what he was responsible for the deaths of 3000 people :x and not only did he admit to doing so he was proud of what he and his shit bags did :x

Who were the other two?

jlew24asu

scb wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

man fucking blood is going too shoot out of my eye balls if we have to go down this road again. Only 3 detainees were water boarded and they were KSM who was one of the master minds of 911 and yeah he was WB like 185 times but so the fuck what he was responsible for the deaths of 3000 people :x and not only did he admit to doing so he was proud of what he and his shit bags did :x

Who were the other two?

Abd_al-Rahim_al-Nashiri
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abd_al-Rahim_al-Nashiri

He is alleged to be the mastermind of the USS Cole bombing and other terrorist attacks, who headed al-Qaeda operations in the Persian Gulf and the Gulf states prior to his capture in November of 2002 by the CIA's Special Activities Division

--

Abu_Zubaydah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Zubaydah

By 1999, the U.S. Government was attempting to run surveillance on Abu Zubaydah.[11] By March 2000, United States officials were reporting that Abu Zubaydah was a "senior bin Laden official", the "former head of Egypt-based Islamic Jihad", a "trusted aide" to bin Laden with "growing power", who had "played a key role in the East Africa embassy attacks."[12]

Internationally Abu Zubaydah was convicted in absentia by a Jordanian court for his alleged role in plots to bomb U.S. and Israeli targets in Jordan.[13] A senior Middle East security official stated Abu Zubaydah had directed the Jordanian cell and was part of “bin Laden’s inner circle."[14]

In August, 2001 a classified FBI report entitled “Bin Laden determined to strike in U.S.”, which would not become public until much later, stated that the foiled millennium bomber, Ahmed Ressam, had confessed that Abu Zubaydah had not only encouraged him to blow up the Los Angeles airport, but had facilitated his mission.[15] The report also claims Abu Zubaydah was planning his own attack on the U.S.[15] An unclassified FBI report also stated that Ahmed Ressam attempted to buy a laptop for Abu Zubaydah.[16] Despite all of these supposed connections, when Ahmed Ressam went to trial in December 2001 federal prosecutors did not attempt to link him to Abu Zubaydah.

ledvedderman

scb wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

man fucking blood is going too shoot out of my eye balls if we have to go down this road again. Only 3 detainees were water boarded and they were KSM who was one of the master minds of 911 and yeah he was WB like 185 times but so the fuck what he was responsible for the deaths of 3000 people :x and not only did he admit to doing so he was proud of what he and his shit bags did :x

Who were the other two?

I think one guy was behind the Cole bombing and I can't remember who the other guy was.

Regardless...we shouldn't torture and as Mancow said, waterboarding IS torture

WaveCameCrashin

Thanks jlew..

WaveCameCrashin

so just cos MANCOW a washed up dj says so we shouldn't do so ? I didn't thik cows could swim anyways

ledvedderman

prfctlefts wrote:

Thanks jlew..

Don't forget the wording in those that say "alleged" and "reported". Don't get me wrong, these guys are more than likely total dicks that I personally wouldn't care that they were waterboarded or worse. However, like I said earlier, this is America where you are innocent until proven guilty. When we let our moral ground down, that's when we piss people off and make them want to fly airplanes into our buildings.

prfctlefts wrote:

so just cos MANCOW a washed up dj says so we shouldn't do so ?

What does being a washed up DJ have anything to do with it. I don't care for Mancow. Never have. However, he had the guts to put his views to the test. I'll take his word and Jesse Ventura's view over yours any day. They've been through it. I've yet to see anyone come out who has been waterboarded and said it was anything short of torture.

Cosmo

prfctlefts wrote:

man fucking blood is going too shoot out of my eye balls if we have to go down this road again. Only 3 detainees were water boarded and they were KSM who was one of the master minds of 911 and yeah he was WB like 185 times but so the fuck what he was responsible for the deaths of 3000 people :x and not only did he admit to doing so he was proud of what he and his shit bags did :x

...
So... based on what you are saying here, the purpose of the waterboarding to get him to admit to the September 11th attacks? I thought we already knew that, which is the reason why we were after him in the first place.

ledvedderman

prfctlefts wrote:

I didn't thik cows could swim anyways

jlew24asu

ledvedderman wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

Thanks jlew..

Don't forget the wording in those that say "alleged" and "reported". Don't get me wrong, these guys are more than likely total dicks that I personally wouldn't care that they were waterboarded or worse. However, like I said earlier, this is America where you are innocent until proven guilty. When we let our moral ground down, that's when we piss people off and make them want to fly airplanes into our buildings.

I have a hard time disagreeing with this. but what needs to be noted is this waterboarding took place back in 2002 (I think, maybe someone can confirm).

this was, more or less, immediately after we were attacked. our incompetent government had NO clue if another attack was imminent. they took these drastic steps to prevent that.

I still dont like that fact that we did it based on the reasons listed above and others, but I have a hard time being really pissed off that it happened.

WaveCameCrashin

Cosmo wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

man fucking blood is going too shoot out of my eye balls if we have to go down this road again. Only 3 detainees were water boarded and they were KSM who was one of the master minds of 911 and yeah he was WB like 185 times but so the fuck what he was responsible for the deaths of 3000 people :x and not only did he admit to doing so he was proud of what he and his shit bags did :x

...
So... based on what you are saying here, the purpose of the waterboarding to get him to admit to the September 11th attacks? I thought we already knew that, which is the reason why we were after him in the first place.

no he gave up other info on attacks that were in the works and it led us to more cells

Cosmo

prfctlefts wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

prfctlefts wrote:

man fucking blood is going too shoot out of my eye balls if we have to go down this road again. Only 3 detainees were water boarded and they were KSM who was one of the master minds of 911 and yeah he was WB like 185 times but so the fuck what he was responsible for the deaths of 3000 people :x and not only did he admit to doing so he was proud of what he and his shit bags did :x

...
So... based on what you are saying here, the purpose of the waterboarding to get him to admit to the September 11th attacks? I thought we already knew that, which is the reason why we were after him in the first place.

no he gave up other info on attacks that were in the works and it led us to more cells

...
Fair enough. Were these other attacks, the 'Big Attack'... or just some other (comparing the September 11th Attacks to the African Embassy Attacks)?
And did he lead us to some of the cells... or all of the cells?

jlew24asu

Cosmo wrote:

...
Fair enough. Were these other attacks, the 'Big Attack'... or just some other (comparing the September 11th Attacks to the African Embassy Attacks)?
And did he lead us to some of the cells... or all of the cells?

I dont think the information gained from enhanced interrogations has been made public. (or all of it anyway). I believe this is what Cheney is pushing for. and I would agree. I would love to find read what they found out.

Cosmo

jlew24asu wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

...
Fair enough. Were these other attacks, the 'Big Attack'... or just some other (comparing the September 11th Attacks to the African Embassy Attacks)?
And did he lead us to some of the cells... or all of the cells?

I dont think the information gained from enhanced interrogations has been made public. (or all of it anyway). I believe this is what Cheney is pushing for. and I would agree. I would love to find read what they found out.

...
If they did reveal those results... then, you'd think it would settle this debate, once and for all... right?
...
But, in the case where we are attacked again... it, would start up all over again...
Anti-Torture people would argue that we should have learned about it if the tactics were effective...
Pro-Torture people would argue, if we had continued these tactics... the plot would have been revealed.

jlew24asu

Cosmo wrote:

jlew24asu wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

...
Fair enough. Were these other attacks, the 'Big Attack'... or just some other (comparing the September 11th Attacks to the African Embassy Attacks)?
And did he lead us to some of the cells... or all of the cells?

I dont think the information gained from enhanced interrogations has been made public. (or all of it anyway). I believe this is what Cheney is pushing for. and I would agree. I would love to find read what they found out.

...
If they did reveal those results... then, you'd think it would settle this debate, once and for all... right?

no.

did I say or even imply that it would?

I simply would like to know if it worked or not.

Cosmo wrote:

...
But, in the case where we are attacked again... it, would start up all over again...
Anti-Torture people would argue that we should have learned about it if the tactics were effective...
Pro-Torture people would argue, if we had continued these tactics... the plot would have been revealed.

I'm perfectly fine with the US never using waterboarding again. I'm also fine with the Bush people using it back in 2002 considering the extreme circumstances. it happened, it wont happen again, lets move on. end of story for me.

Cosmo

jlew24asu wrote:

no.

did I say or even imply that it would?

I simply would like to know if it worked or not.

...
No need to get all perfectlefts on me... i'm agreeing with you... releasing these memos would clarify a lot of the unknowns in this debate and finally put to rest whether the means justify the ends.

NoK

So in all those black op prisons around the Middle east and Europe only three got waterboarded?