IF IN THE FALL THE GOV'T REQUIRES EVERYONE TO BE VACCINATED

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VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

Just because Alex Jones SCREAMS IT (and he loves to scream it), doesn't mean it isn't true. Ignore Alex for a second-- Look at where this country is heading completely objectively-- do not the government and the media COMPLETELY overreact anytime this country faces a problem? Classic examples: 9/11 gave us the war in Iraq. Car companies cry that they're going bankrupt, and we bail them out with billions. Banks are given billions at a whim at the taxpayer's expense. The Swine Flu is still being touted as a PANDEMIC, and I can count the number of dead from this country on one hand. How far away is a forced vaccination given this country's record of completely going over the top with every decision it makes, especially when you have the media doing a PR campaign for it?

But your examples are of the government overreacting in favor of war and capitalism. Given that they don't care enough about healthcare to even meet basic healthcare needs, I think it's unlikely that we're in danger of them suddenly overcompensating and providing TOO MUCH healthcare! Like I said, I think it's much more likely that, if needed, not everyone will be able to even get the vaccine if they want it.

As for Alex Jones, I'm feeling fortunate that I don't know who he is.

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VINNY GOOMBA wrote:

I agree that the medical community more or less probably has our best interests in mind, particularly our doctors and nurses who know us... But think about is how poorly the entire healthcare system is run right now. Doctors barely have time for their patients anymore, there's plenty of bad shit being prescribed right now as a result of it-- the public is pretty much the "Beta testing" of hundreds of drugs and vaccines as it is right now. Now, put this all in a National Emergency scenario... How much time are medical professionals going to have to review what they are injecting people with? Some of them may refuse to stick anyone with any needles until they know for sure what they are doing, but some will unquestionably do what they're told, and put blind faith in the vaccine manufacturer. It's not the doctors that worry me so much as the drug companies.

But in this case it's not like a drug company has come up with a drug for which they then need to create a market by exaggerating the seriousness of the swine flu. Quite the opposite - it's the doctors saying, "Oh shit, we've got a problem and we need to come up with a vaccine and distribution method to deal with it." So the "blind faith" individual doctors might have would be in the doctors who are the leaders in the fields of viruses and public health - not in drug companies who are just out to make a buck.

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soulsinging wrote:

Hardly. The reason the number can be inflated is because our population has skyrocketed due to longer lives and the best medical options in the world. What was your medical option if you got a swine flu in 1918? Leeches to suck the bad blood out? A cold wet towel for the fever? Compare that to what we've got now...

Exactly. Now we've got vaccines.

soulsinging wrote:

there is nothing scary about any of these "pandemics" that roll around conveniently every spring. Avian flu, SARS, swin flu... it's all a joke. I don't think it's a plot to kill old people and save $ on social security, but I do believe it is a combination of 1. our tendency to overreact (which I believe is mainly due to the fact that terrifying alarmist headlines sell more ads and 2. I do believe drug companies and the medical community have some great networks for getting these stories pumped up because it's good for their business.

I agree that the media exaggerates for the sake of profit, which is why it's important to have a reliable source of information, like the CDC or WHO.

I don't agree that the medical/public health communities exaggerate for the sake of profit. The public health system is drained enough as is. They don't need any more "business". Business doesn't make them a profit. Sure, private companies/hospitals might stand to gain from more business, but they're not the ones assessing the problem on a population level. What would the CDC gain from exaggerating the severity of the problem? What would your local public health office - which is already desperate for resources to meet the current need - gain from an increased demand for resources they don't have?

soulsinging

scb wrote:

soulsinging wrote:

Hardly. The reason the number can be inflated is because our population has skyrocketed due to longer lives and the best medical options in the world. What was your medical option if you got a swine flu in 1918? Leeches to suck the bad blood out? A cold wet towel for the fever? Compare that to what we've got now...

Exactly. Now we've got vaccines.

soulsinging wrote:

there is nothing scary about any of these "pandemics" that roll around conveniently every spring. Avian flu, SARS, swin flu... it's all a joke. I don't think it's a plot to kill old people and save $ on social security, but I do believe it is a combination of 1. our tendency to overreact (which I believe is mainly due to the fact that terrifying alarmist headlines sell more ads and 2. I do believe drug companies and the medical community have some great networks for getting these stories pumped up because it's good for their business.

I agree that the media exaggerates for the sake of profit, which is why it's important to have a reliable source of information, like the CDC or WHO.

I don't agree that the medical/public health communities exaggerate for the sake of profit. The public health system is drained enough as is. They don't need any more "business". Business doesn't make them a profit. Sure, private companies/hospitals might stand to gain from more business, but they're not the ones assessing the problem on a population level. What would the CDC gain from exaggerating the severity of the problem? What would your local public health office - which is already desperate for resources to meet the current need - gain from an increased demand for resources they don't have?

True, but the companies that MAKE the vaccines make a killing from this sort of thing. And the CDC, as well as most public administrative agencies, have VERY close ties to companies like this. The CDC itself doesn't have much to gain. But a given CDC official only has to get a call from a big drug company dripping with hints that "this flu is serious isn't it? And we've got an exec retiring soon from his 7-figure job, why don't I put your name in the mix? Your tenure's up soon isn't it?" And there's your incentive for the government. Plus there's the basic ass-covering... if they don't act like it's a huge threat, the first victim's family will sue the shit out of somebody for not 'warning' them enough.

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soulsinging wrote:

True, but the companies that MAKE the vaccines make a killing from this sort of thing. And the CDC, as well as most public administrative agencies, have VERY close ties to companies like this. The CDC itself doesn't have much to gain. But a given CDC official only has to get a call from a big drug company dripping with hints that "this flu is serious isn't it? And we've got an exec retiring soon from his 7-figure job, why don't I put your name in the mix? Your tenure's up soon isn't it?" And there's your incentive for the government. Plus there's the basic ass-covering... if they don't act like it's a huge threat, the first victim's family will sue the shit out of somebody for not 'warning' them enough.

I'm not saying I trust the drug companies, but they're not the ones making the decisions about this kind of stuff. And I realize that the world is an imperfect place and there can be room for some influence to sneak in, but I don't think it's a big enough potential conflict of interest to warrant disregarding the medical consensus of public health organizations worldwide.

I'm not saying we should all stockpile supplies and hole up indoors. I'm still going to Cancun in a few months for my brother's wedding. I'm just saying we should take public health threats seriously. The reason we are able to feel safe in developed nations is BECAUSE we have such great access to vaccines (and sanitation). We would be stupid to let that sense of security cause us to abandon the very things that make us secure. Personally, I don't get vaccines if I can help it because I'm healthy and terrified of shots. But if public health officials told me I needed to get a shot to protect the health of the greater population, I would do it.

DewieCox

I won't get it.

Where the hell do all these vaccines come from. I mean, a fucking vaccine for cervical cancer??? Get REAL!!!!!!!!!!! What's next..a vaccine for HIV/AIDS?

Flu shots are a crock of shit. There's a billion kindsa flu and they take 6 or 7 that they think are gonna be particularly bad. I've never had one, I haven't had the flu in 15 years. Several of the people I know have gotten them and still got the flu. CROCK OF SHIT

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DewieCox wrote:

I mean, a fucking vaccine for cervical cancer??? Get REAL!!!!!!!!!!!

Spoken like someone who's never had a cervical biopsy or a LEEP (loop electrosurgical excision procedure). :roll:

DewieCox wrote:

Flu shots are a crock of shit. There's a billion kindsa flu and they take 6 or 7 that they think are gonna be particularly bad. I've never had one, I haven't had the flu in 15 years. Several of the people I know have gotten them and still got the flu. CROCK OF SHIT

Yeah, well I didn't get a flu shot last year and I did get the flu - a statement which is as equally meaningless as your statements above.

DangDang

Aren't vaccines mandated already? I mean, without a religious or medical exemption--which some states don't even allow--if you aren't vaccinated, you aren't allowed in the school system.

So I guess they're not mandated--unless you want to educate your children (where's the DUH face)

Those legs over there doing the evolution belong to a little boy with autism who WON'T be vaccinated again :arrow:

DewieCox

scb wrote:

DewieCox wrote:

I mean, a fucking vaccine for cervical cancer??? Get REAL!!!!!!!!!!!

Spoken like someone who's never had a cervical biopsy or a LEEP (loop electrosurgical excision procedure). :roll:

DewieCox wrote:

Flu shots are a crock of shit. There's a billion kindsa flu and they take 6 or 7 that they think are gonna be particularly bad. I've never had one, I haven't had the flu in 15 years. Several of the people I know have gotten them and still got the flu. CROCK OF SHIT

Yeah, well I didn't get a flu shot last year and I did get the flu - a statement which is as equally meaningless as your statements above.

I didn't necessarily mean to point out the cervical cancer vaccine. Hell any disease they can wipe out with a vaccine is great. There seems to be stuff out there that seems to be just a money maker.

Are you gonna continue getting a flu shot? what if you still get the flu agai? shot again? flu again? shot again?

I'm all for medical advances that actually help people out, but flu shots don't seem that helpful to me

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DewieCox wrote:

Are you gonna continue getting a flu shot? what if you still get the flu agai? shot again? flu again? shot again?

I'm all for medical advances that actually help people out, but flu shots don't seem that helpful to me

Oh, I've never had a flu shot - or any other shot I could possibly avoid. I'm terrified of needles. So, no, I probably won't get a regular flu shot this year. I'm seriously considering getting a swine flu shot before going to Mexico this year though. And, if I weren't too old, I'd get the HPV vaccine.

My statement was just to point out that all of this anectodal "evidence" against flu shots is completely meaningless.

LikeAnOcean

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

wow.....

just....fucking......

WOW.............

haha.. some people have been watching too many sci-fi movies.

Lets be real, the "government" would never pay for this crap.

And if it meant taking a shot or having to go into hiding and survive out in the wilderness, stick the needle in me already.

decides2dream

LikeAnOcean wrote:

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

wow.....

just....fucking......

WOW.............

haha.. some people have been watching too many sci-fi movies.

Lets be real, the "government" would never pay for this crap.

And if it meant taking a shot or having to go into hiding and survive out in the wilderness, stick the needle in me already.

seriously...it's like all the major epic disaster movies, where the world will end with nuclear holocaust and people start planning, bunkering down, so they can survive with the cockroaches. who in the hell would want to survive and live after that?! :roll: yikes. the world can start over and renew just fine without me, thanks.

yahamita

seriously...it's like all the major epic disaster movies, where the world will end with nuclear holocaust and people start planning, bunkering down, so they can survive with the cockroaches. who in the hell would want to survive and live after that?! :roll: yikes. the world can start over and renew just fine without me, thanks.[/quote]



But you can survive on cockroaches!

decides2dream

yahamita wrote:

But you can survive on cockroaches!

just b/c one CAN, doesn't mean i'd want to!
i'll take life as it comes, do the best i can and most importantly...ENJOY....love....laugh.....share. if and when the shit ever hits the fan, i'd rather just check out than subsist with the cockroaches - you all can be the heroics of humanity, rebuilding society and all that.

yahamita

decides2dream wrote:

yahamita wrote:

But you can survive on cockroaches!

just b/c one CAN, doesn't mean i'd want to!
i'll take life as it comes, do the best i can and most importantly...ENJOY....love....laugh.....share. if and when the shit ever hits the fan, i'd rather just check out than subsist with the cockroaches - you all can be the heroics of humanity, rebuilding society and all that.

ENJOY...LOVE...LAUGH...SHARE!!! That is the best advice YET!

mookeywrench

dasvidana wrote:

If it's re: the new H1N1 flu, I would take it very seriously. If anyone has ever read about the pandemic of the early 1900's, it sounds pretty scary. Let's hope whatever is coming from this new strain is not a repeat of that one!

the main problem with the 1900's pandemic was a lack of efficient communication and a lack in understanding of how viruses work and spread, both of which we now have.

walknthecow

we certainly don't think the gov't should be able to require us to do anything. depending on what it was for and it being mercury free we would be open minded to it.

yahamita

walknthecow wrote:

we certainly don't think the gov't should be able to require us to do anything. depending on what it was for and it being mercury free we would be open minded to it.

But we have to believe what they tell us they(shots) are made of, right? We really won't know what they are injecting into our bodies for sure.

jlew24asu

yahamita wrote:

walknthecow wrote:

we certainly don't think the gov't should be able to require us to do anything. depending on what it was for and it being mercury free we would be open minded to it.

But we have to believe what they tell us they(shots) are made of, right? We really won't know what they are injecting into our bodies for sure.

why not? you don't think there will be independent studies and information available about "required" vaccines?

yahamita

jlew24asu wrote:

yahamita wrote:

walknthecow wrote:

we certainly don't think the gov't should be able to require us to do anything. depending on what it was for and it being mercury free we would be open minded to it.

But we have to believe what they tell us they(shots) are made of, right? We really won't know what they are injecting into our bodies for sure.

why not? you don't think there will be independent studies and information available about "required" vaccines?

I believe by fall, we will start to see commercials on TV regarding the vaccines and the "good" they will do for society.