Dave A putting up videos on youyube!

JordyWordy

cool to see the comparison videos of the same songs - ive often tried that but gotten bored trying to find footage of the 3 drummers doing one song, where u can see them was hard, so fair play for the effort there!!

Blood is one that ive often thought sounds more "sludgy" than it used to. the sparse drumming worked much better on it. the drums filled out the gaps in the low end bass, and it rides really well. Nowadays, a song of brute force, less intricate.

as for Matt playing cymbals more than Dave - ive noticed that before too. from a bass playing perspective, Matts drumming style means all the dynamics are lost in a blur of fast drums on songs: Hail Hail is a perfect example. a Jack-era song, Matt does the same thing on it as on Blood. arguably, because the guitars & bass move SO much more on this song, its harder to hear - but overall the end result: the song loses its funk/rhythm beat, and is a much angrier driven song. i love both styles, but its funny just how drastically it changes the song.

Hail Hail - Jack: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOAzJFd4KDA

Hail Hail - Matt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=megBhs0nQs4

BUT take Animal and Matts drumming changes it for the better imo. The main part is pretty similar...but the heavy fills are significantly better at the parts where the guitars all hit at the same time (pre-chorus) - so there's a much better dynamic overall through the song of normal-heavy-normal-heavy-normal-heavy... as opposed to the same beat the whole time. EXCEPT the outro - Dave changes the beat and owns the ending, matt plays it through the same as rest of the song.

Animal - Dave: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIgfYVq5 ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_ulJ_Aq ... re=related

Animal - Matt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN_jLdC85Ic

So it depends on the songs for me really - im not saying Matt doesnt acknowledge the rhythm/bass dynamnics - songs like Sleight Of Hand, Moonlight, You Are, Light years...theres great drumming on those - but on some older songs he looks like he never even looked at the old style of drumming, and just plays it in standard rhythms instead. on funky songs it means something is lost, and on more "metal" songs like Animal, it works.

CJMST3K

JordyWordy wrote:

So it depends on the songs for me really - im not saying Matt doesnt acknowledge the rhythm/bass dynamnics - songs like Sleight Of Hand, Moonlight, You Are, Light years...theres great drumming on those - but on some older songs he looks like he never even looked at the old style of drumming, and just plays it in standard rhythms instead. on funky songs it means something is lost, and on more "metal" songs like Animal, it works.

I think your last paragraph nails it pretty close.

Matt is great on Matt-written material. But on MUCH of the early material, it's as though he's never heard the previously played drumming by the several other drummers, and just plays it straight. Just kinda sounds like a temporary stand-in drummer who's not as familiar, yes particularly on funky songs, but on a number of others too.

I'd say that I really do prefer Dave's version of Animal for all his work on it. When listening at a show, it's hard to hear all the nuance, so I don't miss it on this song as much when I'm there, but when I hear it on a bootleg, Animal is now just another fastforward song like Evenflow, SOLAT, and a long list of early stuff.

On Hail Hail, if Matt just slowed-the-fuck-down, it would sound so much better - without changing his style of playing it.

12345AGNST1

JordyWordy wrote:

Hail Hail - Matt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=megBhs0nQs4

Listen to Jeff at around 1:50-2:10 and watch for eddies reaction.

I noticed his playing is completely retarded and then I looked at the comments.

2LightYears

Re: Dave's "hard" drumming - Matt uses a lighter cymbal (A series, rather than Z) and birch-shelled drums, rather than the typical rock drummer's maple shelled drums - you couldn't tell if he hit the drums as hard as "Bam Bam" Abruzzese or not because the projection & tone are completely different.

:geek:

hopethatuchoke

Thanks for posting those comparison videos. They make me dislike Matt's drumming even more.

JordyWordy

12345AGNST1 wrote:

JordyWordy wrote:

Hail Hail - Matt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=megBhs0nQs4

Listen to Jeff at around 1:50-2:10 and watch for eddies reaction.

I noticed his playing is completely retarded and then I looked at the comments.

yeah he butchers it for the middle part doesnt he?? maybe he had a sudden daydream or something, but good grief!!

STT757

Dave put up so more videos including Limelight 1992.

HeavyHands

hopethatuchoke wrote:

Thanks for posting those comparison videos.

I agree.

And I'll add that this is probably one of the best threads I've ever read (towards the end anyways). If people want to know how to back up the point they're trying to make CJMST3K and JordyWordy set the standard on this.

Nice f'n work you guys.

CJMST3K

HeavyHands wrote:

hopethatuchoke wrote:

Thanks for posting those comparison videos.

I agree.

And I'll add that this is probably one of the best threads I've ever read (towards the end anyways). If people want to know how to back up the point they're trying to make CJMST3K and JordyWordy set the standard on this.

Nice f'n work you guys.

Thanks HH.

I'm always glad to be thorough. The difference between drummers are night and apples.

BeerBaron

I agree with the comments that this is the best thread ... it's definitely the best I've ever read.

I have never played an instrument and don't understand a lot of the technical terminology. But I have read the drummer comparisons for years on the Pit and never quite understood how the differences between the drummers could be so significant they they'd spark the debate that they do around here. But seeing those comments with the video links really highlighted the different styles of Dave A, Jack & Matt. The Blood videos were especially compelling.

@ CMJST3K: What does it mean to say that a drummer hits a cymbal X times per measure?

HeavyHands

CJMST3K wrote:

Thanks HH.

I'm always glad to be thorough. The difference between drummers are night and apples.

No sweat dude. I really appreciate that you and JordyWordy took the time to educate people about the differenced in drumming styles of Dave A, Jack, and Matt. It couldn't be more easy to follow.

On a different topic... I didn't realize that I would be referred to as "HH." Maybe I should change my name so as to avoid some kind of inadvertent nazi reference? Thoughts? Just kidding. But not really. :shock:

CJMST3K

BeerBaron wrote:

I agree with the comments that this is the best thread ... it's definitely the best I've ever read.

I have never played an instrument and don't understand a lot of the technical terminology. But I have read the drummer comparisons for years on the Pit and never quite understood how the differences between the drummers could be so significant they they'd spark the debate that they do around here. But seeing those comments with the video links really highlighted the different styles of Dave A, Jack & Matt. The Blood videos were especially compelling.

@ CMJST3K: What does it mean to say that a drummer hits a cymbal X times per measure?

Hey BB (no nazi reference to be inferred )

Thanks and I may be using the term "measure" loosely (played drums 25 years, but never read music). Here's an online definition: "Measure: The unit of measure where the beats on the lines of the staff are divided up into two, three, four beats to a measure".

I was using in this way: "Spin me 'round" = 1 measure. "Roll me over" = 1 measure... and so on. A very short segment of the song where, at the end, the guitar chords start over again. A guitarist may have a better description than I just gave. ...so when one drummer hits his cymbals 4 times per "measure", and another hits them 6 times in that same part of the song, one of those drummers is hitting cymbals more often during the same amount of time. Hope that helps!

JordyWordy

HeavyHands wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

Thanks HH.

I'm always glad to be thorough. The difference between drummers are night and apples.

No sweat dude. I really appreciate that you and JordyWordy took the time to educate people about the differenced in drumming styles of Dave A, Jack, and Matt. It couldn't be more easy to follow.

On a different topic... I didn't realize that I would be referred to as "HH." Maybe I should change my name so as to avoid some kind of inadvertent nazi reference? Thoughts? Just kidding. But not really. :shock:

Hehe, CJMST3K probably knows a drumkit better than i do! i play bass, cant play drums but i get how they flesh out - a change in the drumming of a song will drive me nuts if it fucks with how the bass sounds/the overall flow of the song.

thankfully CJMST3K (no way of abbreviating that name is there? lol) got it spot on when he said that he cant really tell at live shows - i cant either. on boots its more obvious. at live shows it probably just makes the band sound noisier....combined with playing songs faster. i dont really know though, never saw PJ before Matt joined.

The thing is that if you listen to Wellwater Conspiracy or Harryby McCage its obvious that Matt can do delicate, intricate drumming - so it makes it even more annoying to hear him pound away unimaginatively on certain tracks!

Not all of his takes on old songs are bad - he's brushed up on his Why Go intro....and the beat he does at the end of the Even Flow solo (just as Stone comes back in) is my favourite thing about Even Flow now.

Brisk.

JordyWordy wrote:

HeavyHands wrote:

CJMST3K wrote:

Thanks HH.

I'm always glad to be thorough. The difference between drummers are night and apples.

No sweat dude. I really appreciate that you and JordyWordy took the time to educate people about the differenced in drumming styles of Dave A, Jack, and Matt. It couldn't be more easy to follow.

On a different topic... I didn't realize that I would be referred to as "HH." Maybe I should change my name so as to avoid some kind of inadvertent nazi reference? Thoughts? Just kidding. But not really. :shock:

Hehe, CJMST3K probably knows a drumkit better than i do - but i play bass - a change in the drumming of a song will drive me nuts if it fucks with how it makes the bass sound, or the overall flow of the song.

thankfully CJMST3K (no way of abbreviating that name is there? lol) got it spot on when he said that he cant really tell at live shows - i cant either. on boots its more obvious. at live shows it probably just makes the band sound noisier....combined with playing songs faster. i dont really know though, never saw PJ before Matt joined.

The thing is that if you listen to Wellwater Conspiracy or Harryby McCage its obvious that Matt can do delicate, intricate drumming - so it makes it even more annoying to hear him pound away unimaginatively on certain tracks!

Not all of his takes on old songs are bad - he's brushed up on his Why Go intro....and the beat he does at the end of the Even Flow solo (just as Stone comes back in) is my favourite thing about Even Flow now.

Yes, it's very like Jesus Christ Pose

Love that bit too!

JordyWordy

I BrisK I wrote:

Yes, it's very like Jesus Christ Pose

Love that bit too!

Yeah, it is! so cool. they could play that part out for a good while, my feet wouldnt stop moving.

Thinking about it, few bands play the majority of their catalogue on tour like PJ do (they have a list of like, 20-30 instead per tour), so the demands on whoever drums for PJ are pretty huge. Matt was never gona be able to learn all of...
Ten & Outtakes (20 songs approx)
Dave's songs (23 albums tracks & Bsides)
Jack' s songs (27 album tracks & Bsides)

.....in exactly the style they were written. Maybe the band took a concious decision to not force Matt to imitate Dave - there'd probably have been a backlash too if he had just mimicked such distinctive drumming instead of doing it his way and, to be fair, Jack hadnt copied Dave either.

I for one though, wouldnt complain! Give me the original drums on Rats, Blood, Tremor Christ, or Go and ill be a happy man.

JordyWordy

CJMST3K wrote:

Matt is great on Matt-written material. But on MUCH of the early material, it's as though he's never heard the previously played drumming by the several other drummers, and just plays it straight. Just kinda sounds like a temporary stand-in drummer who's not as familiar, yes particularly on funky songs, but on a number of others too.

Meant to say earlier, this should be posted as an answer whenever a "Best drummer thread" comes up again, and then the thread should be locked. nicely put

decides2dream

just wanted to say i've read this thread in it's entirety just now - yes, it's a bizarrely slow workday today - and it has been a great and informative read! i don't watch youtube vids from work and rarely visit the board from home anymore...thus why i've never opened this thread before. i most definitely wnat to check out some of the vids, especially the comparison vids. i am no musician by any stretch, tho married to an active bass player...so many a convo, and many gigs.....so i truly enjoy the techie music discussions.



as for dave a......i say kudos for sharing some vintage material with fans.
as to all the rest, total personal choice, perspective....entirely subjective. i loved dave, love matt, not the biggest fan of jack....but all solid drummers with their own styles. really all what connects most with you, but reallly...as already mentioned, i think each has been/is the right drummer at the right time for pj, so for that...i thank them all.

Brisk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hGq9LrE ... annel_page

1 minute 40 - love that beat he does. I think it's done during the Deep chorus.

CJMST3K

New vid posted of soundcheck from overhead of "Alone". Love how he plays on this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuWmcK0i ... annel_page

(Alone starts at about 1:10 mark)

CJMST3K

FULL SONG:

Alone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzwqOl6bbAg

Rock on!