Chris Cornell New Album officially makes him a sell out

Music For Rhinos

redrock wrote:

Music For Rhinos wrote:

..... arguments are proven by facts.

JimNastics wrote:

...When this album underperforms sales wise....

Sales.... that will be the FACT that will prove the point.

Leathermandi - I completely agree with your post.

wrong. sales will not be the fact that proves the point.

why?

because...

1. albums don't sell anymore
2. music downloading
3. napster, limewire, torrents, filesharing, youtube, itunes, zune, etc etc

this isn't the 90s anymore.

AllNiteThing

dharma69 wrote:

I reserve the right to "shit all over" Scream and any other music that my ears find to be awful just as you have the right to love said awful music. You're swallowing quite a bit of judgementalism yourself.

I've had well over 6 months to digest songs from this album and I can honestly say that they sound as bad today as they did when I first heard them and no critic's input was necessary in order to come to this conlusion. And no one with half a brain thinks that any artist owes them anything other than the pleasure of their music; on that same note, no artist is entitled to any fan's unconditional and unquestioning loyalty. If an artist has yours, yay for you but I chose to like/dislike based on my own standards of quality. I don't go "baaaaaaa" because I'm not a mindless sheep for music. This time last year I left my mind wide open and hoped that something would come of this project that would pique my brain and be worth the risk that he was taking. But vapid, low grade lyrics, recycled, unoriginal beats and processing that washes over the vocals instead of enhancing them does nothing for me. Apparently it does nothing for a lot of people.

People don't like Scream on its merits; be a grown up and just deal with it and you can still dig the album all you want.

Do you like hip-hop, dance and techno? If you don't like that STYLE of music, it's pretty silly to pass judgement on CC's album, when you don't like the style going into it. That's like me shitting all over Mozart's work because I don't like classical piano. Pretty stupid IMO.

What about the lyrics are 'vapid and low grade'? Some of them are, sure, but you can find that on parts of most any album, and let's be serious, CC was never known as some revelatory orator. I can find some pretty sub standard lyrics on the Audioslave albums. What about the beats are recycled/unoriginal? Part of the appeal for me is that I haven't heard much that sounds like this before.

It's definitely not going to suit people who want Euphoria Morning pt 2 or more dark Fell on Black Days style music. If you like the style of music that this album is, you enjoy CC's voice and you go in with an open mind, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Even then, some of those people won't like it, sure, but I highly doubt most of you shitting on it have even given it a shot. It's just going with the herd of popular negative opinion.

JordyWordy

Music For Rhinos wrote:

wrong. sales will not be the fact that proves the point.

why?

because...

1. albums don't sell anymore
2. music downloading
3. napster, limewire, torrents, filesharing, youtube, itunes, zune, etc etc

this isn't the 90s anymore.

riiiiiight, so these things arent indicators of an album that the public likes? you're funny.

we get it, you like it. thats cool. all we're saying so far is that you seem to be in a substantial minority. but you're not the only person that has said on here they like it, and others will like it. no biggie. that being said, we still reserve the right to shit all over it.

the majority lose here. Cornell is losing a lot of credibility in many peoples eyes. i'm losing out cos i wanted to enjoy this album, and i cant. me and a whole bunch of other people.

Cornell's motives & credibility are taking a hammering in pop & rock DJs eyes here in Ireland. DJs are playing it openly to see the response it gets, its been dropped from radio here very quickly. 1 or 2 DJs have though, have called it a "guilty pleasure"...so they are like you - on the basis of the songs, they like it. and still, the rest of the nation are reserving their right to shit all over it.

AllNiteThing

LeatherMandi wrote:

AllNiteThing wrote:

It seems pretty clear that most people who are arguing so vehemently against this album are swayed by the music critics and either a) Haven't actually listened to the album for more than 2 minutes or b) Don't like this style of music. If you have even a minor affinity for hip hop/dance and love CC's music/voice/songwriting, then there is some really good music on this record, if you give it a chance. Just because you don't like the style, don't shit all over it. CC doesn't owe you anything and doesn't need to stay in the same rut his whole life. The guy is over 40 and has given enough great rock music to his fans that I think he's allowed a little detour to explore other musical interests at this point in his life.

Thats all fine and fair but.. if 90 percent of your fan base is disgusted and doesn't give a shit anymore... then who is chris cornell? I'm sorry but don't spend 20 years building a fan base around a specific type of music and then 20 years later decide its time to mix in some dance hits... i mean unless you just totally want to lose all your previous credibility and respect. Makes sense right?

There are actually a handful of songs in here that are decent rock songs too. It's not all dance or whatever you'd call it. Some of them have been electronically interpreted too, I think it's a pretty cool way to experiment. They're definitely CC songs, just 'different'. Some of it doesn't work, that's for sure, but most of it does. There are some guitar solos and some really good riffs behind the electronic fuzz and drum beats.

I think we know a few other bands who have substantially trimmed their fan base. I see a lot of creativity in here. A lot more than if CC had just thrown out another album of tired, droning Like a Stone's or something. He's done all that before, and he's trying something new, and I commend him for having the balls to do it, knowing the backlash there would be. I don't think he cares about catering to his fan base and doing what others want, rather than expanding his musical horizons and doing what HE feels is creativity. That should be admired, not despised.

AllNiteThing

redrock wrote:

Music For Rhinos wrote:

..... arguments are proven by facts.

JimNastics wrote:

...When this album underperforms sales wise....

Sales.... that will be the FACT that will prove the point.

Leathermandi - I completely agree with your post.

Really? I can name you tons of albums that don't sell nearly as well as their quality would suggest.

You know how many albums don't get the publicity or attention but are masterpieces? Do you really think sales = quality?!?

Silliest argument I've read yet. :roll:

JordyWordy

AllNiteThing wrote:

Do you like hip-hop, dance and techno? If you don't like that STYLE of music, it's pretty silly to pass judgement on CC's album, when you don't like the style going into it. That's like me shitting all over Mozart's work because I don't like classical piano. Pretty stupid IMO.

Part of the appeal for me is that I haven't heard much that sounds like this before.

I listen to as much hip-hop,dance & techno as i do regular rock, and i think the album sounds like it was made on a toy "my first home producing kit". the instrumentation is weak, the layers are thin, the beats are generic & standard - even compare it to Timabalands other work...say something like "Say it Right" by Nelly Furtado - That song is great and nothing on Scream comes within an arse's roar of its quality.

its music by numbers. ill give you that the presentation is inventive for Cornell - but for this style of music, it isnt. its basic conversion of simple chords to simple beats. not difficult for a musician to do. i just thought for the level of songwriting he has, even played as rock songs, these songs feel lazy.

The proper example is saying that Scouting For Girls make amazing piano based rock, and are not aimed at making a quick buck from the pop market...and that theyre closer to sounding like Mozart...or Dark Side of The Moon. You see the irony in that one? Ps: scounting for girls: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRn9q1SW8-A

AllNiteThing

JordyWordy wrote:

Music For Rhinos wrote:

wrong. sales will not be the fact that proves the point.

why?

because...

1. albums don't sell anymore
2. music downloading
3. napster, limewire, torrents, filesharing, youtube, itunes, zune, etc etc

this isn't the 90s anymore.

riiiiiight, so these things arent indicators of an album that the public likes? you're funny.

Indicators of what the public likes based on what is being marketed aggressively and sold to them? Yes. Indicators or actual QUALITY of product? No.

AllNiteThing

I BrisK I wrote:

long gone is catchy!

Agreed! What do the haters have to say about this song? One of the best on there, a really amazing track. I'd love to hear how this one is 'crap' or a 'sell out' or whatever.

JordyWordy

AllNiteThing wrote:

Indicators of what the public likes based on what is being marketed aggressively and sold to them? Yes. Indicators or actual QUALITY of product? No.

i totally agree. and im sure the people who spend a small fortune marketing this would see its miserable sales as a failure.

JimNastics

AllNiteThing wrote:

You know how many albums don't get the publicity or attention but are masterpieces? Do you really think sales = quality?!?

I agree with you on that point, but here's where your argument falls flat on it's face... none of those albums would have had the marketing behemoth that is behind Scream. Most, if not all of those albums would have failed sales wise due to lack of marketing and promotion, and word-of-mouth couldn't save them. Scream has been so over-marketed and hyped that it can only fail for one reason - people don't think it's good enough to pay money for. And if people don't think it's good enough to pay money for, I'm not sure what you think that says about the quality of the album.

Because individual opinions are just that, opinions, the general consensus on whether Scream is good or bad needs to go out to a larger vote - the masses. The vote results indicator will be how well it sells.

redrock

AllNiteThing wrote:

Really? I can name you tons of albums that don't sell nearly as well as their quality would suggest.

You know how many albums don't get the publicity or attention but are masterpieces? Do you really think sales = quality?!?

Silliest argument I've read yet. :roll:

I never said sales = quality that is plain silly. Sales = success of an album (just like box office returns = success of a film). Rank on Billboard chart = how successful the album is (note this ranking includes digital downloads, etc. but of course not illegally obtained copies such as torrents).

If the sales were in direct relation to promotion, with all the hype and mighty promotional campaigns, one would have thought the album would have gone straight to no.1....

And remember, for CC sales = money. And I don't want to hear 'he isn't doing it for money. He's doing it because he wants to, etc...'. Music is his JOB - he is lucky it is his passion too but it is what pays for his lifestyle, the future of his kids, etc.

dharma69

AllNiteThing wrote:

dharma69 wrote:

I reserve the right to "shit all over" Scream and any other music that my ears find to be awful just as you have the right to love said awful music. You're swallowing quite a bit of judgementalism yourself.

I've had well over 6 months to digest songs from this album and I can honestly say that they sound as bad today as they did when I first heard them and no critic's input was necessary in order to come to this conlusion. And no one with half a brain thinks that any artist owes them anything other than the pleasure of their music; on that same note, no artist is entitled to any fan's unconditional and unquestioning loyalty. If an artist has yours, yay for you but I chose to like/dislike based on my own standards of quality. I don't go "baaaaaaa" because I'm not a mindless sheep for music. This time last year I left my mind wide open and hoped that something would come of this project that would pique my brain and be worth the risk that he was taking. But vapid, low grade lyrics, recycled, unoriginal beats and processing that washes over the vocals instead of enhancing them does nothing for me. Apparently it does nothing for a lot of people.

People don't like Scream on its merits; be a grown up and just deal with it and you can still dig the album all you want.

Do you like hip-hop, dance and techno? If you don't like that STYLE of music, it's pretty silly to pass judgement on CC's album, when you don't like the style going into it. That's like me shitting all over Mozart's work because I don't like classical piano. Pretty stupid IMO.

What about the lyrics are 'vapid and low grade'? Some of them are, sure, but you can find that on parts of most any album, and let's be serious, CC was never known as some revelatory orator. I can find some pretty sub standard lyrics on the Audioslave albums. What about the beats are recycled/unoriginal? Part of the appeal for me is that I haven't heard much that sounds like this before.

It's definitely not going to suit people who want Euphoria Morning pt 2 or more dark Fell on Black Days style music. If you like the style of music that this album is, you enjoy CC's voice and you go in with an open mind, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. Even then, some of those people won't like it, sure, but I highly doubt most of you shitting on it have even given it a shot. It's just going with the herd of popular negative opinion.

"Do you like hip-hop, dance and techno?"...Yes. And I still don't like the album. Nothing else to discuss there and still shitting all over the album. Moving on.

Perhaps you never considered Cornell to be great lyricist but I did, particularly due to the dark and abstract yet vivid nature of his lyrics and his ability to paint incredibly unique word pictures. The majority of contemporary R&B/hip hop has lyrically degenerated greatly over the years to be little more than "oooh baby", "pay my bills", and things like R. Kelly's unbelievable serial soap opera of cheating and getting your freak on,"Trapped In The Closet". Moving on.

I'm from Brooklyn, NY. I'm black. I'm grew up on more than my share of urban sounds. In my opinion I'm a very good judge of them. Recycled and unoriginal. Moving on.

Again, enough with assuming that people who don't like this album have completely closed minds, haven't even listened to the album, are just regurgitating what the media or their BFF said,..blah, blah, blah. As I said before, people don't like it simply based on its merit; I know that I do. I just don't understand why that small fact is so hard to grasp., I know that there are those of you who like the album and really wish that the feeling was universal but its not and never will be so quit whining about it and move on.

AB221569

AllNiteThing wrote:

I BrisK I wrote:

long gone is catchy!

Agreed! What do the haters have to say about this song? One of the best on there, a really amazing track. I'd love to hear how this one is 'crap' or a 'sell out' or whatever.

It's not crap - it's just blander than an A4 sheet of white paper on an ice cap.

dharma69

AllNiteThing wrote:

I BrisK I wrote:

long gone is catchy!

Agreed! What do the haters have to say about this song? One of the best on there, a really amazing track. I'd love to hear how this one is 'crap' or a 'sell out' or whatever.

Name calling makes this conversation so amusing. Haters...how juvenile. What are you, 16?

Oddly, "Long Gone" sounds just like the One Republic/Timbaland ditty "Apologize". Recycle, reduce, reuse. So much for being groundbreaking and unique.

And why would you "love to hear how this one is 'crap' or a 'sell out' or whatever"? Why does it matter? Well, since you asked, it sounds like a limp-dicked power ballad to me. Those were the first words that came to my mind when I heard it last year and it still applies now. But, again, why does it matter to you if you like the song?

Music For Rhinos

JordyWordy wrote:

Music For Rhinos wrote:

wrong. sales will not be the fact that proves the point.

why?

because...

1. albums don't sell anymore
2. music downloading
3. napster, limewire, torrents, filesharing, youtube, itunes, zune, etc etc

this isn't the 90s anymore.

riiiiiight, so these things arent indicators of an album that the public likes? you're funny.

we get it, you like it. thats cool. all we're saying so far is that you seem to be in a substantial minority. but you're not the only person that has said on here they like it, and others will like it. no biggie. that being said, we still reserve the right to shit all over it.

the majority lose here. Cornell is losing a lot of credibility in many peoples eyes. i'm losing out cos i wanted to enjoy this album, and i cant. me and a whole bunch of other people.

Cornell's motives & credibility are taking a hammering in pop & rock DJs eyes here in Ireland. DJs are playing it openly to see the response it gets, its been dropped from radio here very quickly. 1 or 2 DJs have though, have called it a "guilty pleasure"...so they are like you - on the basis of the songs, they like it. and still, the rest of the nation are reserving their right to shit all over it.

okay, that's fine.

i can agree with that.

just one thing though...you said, "riiiiiight, so these things arent indicators of an album that the public likes? you're funny."

just to be clear....of course those things are indicators of an album the public likes. i am simply stating you cannot justify proving your point based on sales alone for reasons mentioned above.

fair enough?

JordyWordy

Music For Rhinos wrote:

okay, that's fine.

i can agree with that.

just one thing though...you said, "riiiiiight, so these things arent indicators of an album that the public likes? you're funny."

just to be clear....of course those things are indicators of an album the public likes. i am simply stating you cannot justify proving your point based on sales alone for reasons mentioned above.

fair enough?

fair enough.

AB221569

JordyWordy wrote:

and still, the rest of the nation are reserving their right to shit all over it.

I make something of a habit out of it.

http://www.zmemusic.com/rock/chris-cornell-scream/
http://misterhands.wordpress.com/2009/0 ... ll-scream/

Jibiti

Scream debuts at #11 with 26,107 copies sold. 6 places higher than when Carry On debuted.: http://www.hitsdailydouble.com/sales/salescht.cgi

Not really sure if this is a good or bad sign.

redrock

Hey.. if people like the album, they buy it...

Then again... Nickelback shot to the billboard top 5 in the first week of their album sales. Neko Case sold 44000 copies of her album in the first week. Do a lot of people know Case? Has her album been hyped up and marketed for the past 6 months? Nope.
One would think with all the hype, Scream would have gone straight to no. 1 (then again... U2 came out at the same time... a different league altogether).

So all is relative.

SOLAT319

Travelar wrote:

Trent Reznor obviously doesn't like it....

http://twitter.com/trent_reznor/status/1313265641

You know that feeling you get when somebody embarrasses themselves so badly YOU feel uncomfortable? Heard Chris Cornell's record? Jesus.

Trent is a badass