Chris Cornell New Album officially makes him a sell out

Music For Rhinos

JordyWordy wrote:

uhm, no actually what i was saying that ignoring negative criticisms of the albums as just "opinions" is the argument a 6 year old would use. of course its an opinion. if you said that u liked the music and left it at that, id have not called you on it. disregarding "opinions" purely on the basis that they arent your opinions is condescending, and frankly, stupid. thats all i was saying.

and yeah, of course its possible for someone to like it. i never said it wasnt. But i am saying it is ok for others to criticise it. im a pearl jam fan, im used to people i know not getting what i see in music.

you'll just be in a far greater minority if you like this album, that's all.

I am not ignoring negative criticisms, I am disagreeing with them, as is my right, just as it is anyone's. I am simply stating that criticism of any sort is an opinion. People on here have been condescending with their attitudes. I have been anything BUT condescending. I am not trying to sway people to my side. I am simply stating what some don't seem to understand. Whether or not a 6 year old would use this argument makes no difference. It is a correct argument.

Where did I disregard an opinion? I have addressed everything fairly. I was simply respectfully debating someone who was presenting his opinions as facts.

AB221569

Music For Rhinos wrote:

AB221569 wrote:

And they're wrong.

in your opinion, yes, they are wrong.

The idea that everyone's opinion of music is equally valid has given us the "Idol" phenomenon. I choose to believe that there are people who know better. It keeps me from mourning too much for the slow, strangled death of worthwhile music.

Music For Rhinos

AB221569 wrote:

Music For Rhinos wrote:

AB221569 wrote:

And they're wrong.

in your opinion, yes, they are wrong.

The idea that everyone's opinion of music is equally valid has given us the "Idol" phenomenon. I choose to believe that there are people who know better. It keeps me from mourning too much for the slow, strangled death of worthwhile music.

That's fine. It is your opinion.

dharma69

I love this site for keeping things simple and a collective of sources in one place:

"...In practice, Scream is nearly awful." (Blender)

I agree with the "awful". I wish that I could factor my Opinion in that rating.

AllNiteThing

It seems pretty clear that most people who are arguing so vehemently against this album are swayed by the music critics and either a) Haven't actually listened to the album for more than 2 minutes or b) Don't like this style of music. If you have even a minor affinity for hip hop/dance and love CC's music/voice/songwriting, then there is some really good music on this record, if you give it a chance. Just because you don't like the style, don't shit all over it. CC doesn't owe you anything and doesn't need to stay in the same rut his whole life. The guy is over 40 and has given enough great rock music to his fans that I think he's allowed a little detour to explore other musical interests at this point in his life.

Music For Rhinos

AllNiteThing wrote:

It seems pretty clear that most people who are arguing so vehemently against this album are swayed by the music critics and either a) Haven't actually listened to the album for more than 2 minutes or b) Don't like this style of music. If you have even a minor affinity for hip hop/dance and love CC's music/voice/songwriting, then there is some really good music on this record, if you give it a chance. Just because you don't like the style, don't shit all over it. CC doesn't owe you anything and doesn't need to stay in the same rut his whole life. The guy is over 40 and has given enough great rock music to his fans that I think he's allowed a little detour to explore other musical interests at this point in his life.

thank you! well said.

given2fly23

Enemy and Scream are great songs.

dharma69

AllNiteThing wrote:

It seems pretty clear that most people who are arguing so vehemently against this album are swayed by the music critics and either a) Haven't actually listened to the album for more than 2 minutes or b) Don't like this style of music. If you have even a minor affinity for hip hop/dance and love CC's music/voice/songwriting, then there is some really good music on this record, if you give it a chance. Just because you don't like the style, don't shit all over it. CC doesn't owe you anything and doesn't need to stay in the same rut his whole life. The guy is over 40 and has given enough great rock music to his fans that I think he's allowed a little detour to explore other musical interests at this point in his life.

I reserve the right to "shit all over" Scream and any other music that my ears find to be awful just as you have the right to love said awful music. You're swallowing quite a bit of judgementalism yourself.

I've had well over 6 months to digest songs from this album and I can honestly say that they sound as bad today as they did when I first heard them and no critic's input was necessary in order to come to this conlusion. And no one with half a brain thinks that any artist owes them anything other than the pleasure of their music; on that same note, no artist is entitled to any fan's unconditional and unquestioning loyalty. If an artist has yours, yay for you but I chose to like/dislike based on my own standards of quality. I don't go "baaaaaaa" because I'm not a mindless sheep for music. This time last year I left my mind wide open and hoped that something would come of this project that would pique my brain and be worth the risk that he was taking. But vapid, low grade lyrics, recycled, unoriginal beats and processing that washes over the vocals instead of enhancing them does nothing for me. Apparently it does nothing for a lot of people.

People don't like Scream on its merits; be a grown up and just deal with it and you can still dig the album all you want.

Fahka

AllNiteThing wrote:

It seems pretty clear that most people who are arguing so vehemently against this album are swayed by the music critics and either a) Haven't actually listened to the album for more than 2 minutes or b) Don't like this style of music. If you have even a minor affinity for hip hop/dance and love CC's music/voice/songwriting, then there is some really good music on this record, if you give it a chance. Just because you don't like the style, don't shit all over it. CC doesn't owe you anything and doesn't need to stay in the same rut his whole life. The guy is over 40 and has given enough great rock music to his fans that I think he's allowed a little detour to explore other musical interests at this point in his life.

Thats all fine and fair but.. if 90 percent of your fan base is disgusted and doesn't give a shit anymore... then who is chris cornell? I'm sorry but don't spend 20 years building a fan base around a specific type of music and then 20 years later decide its time to mix in some dance hits... i mean unless you just totally want to lose all your previous credibility and respect. Makes sense right?

Brisk.

long gone is catchy!

Music For Rhinos

LeatherMandi wrote:

Thats all fine and fair but.. if 90 percent of your fan base is disgusted and doesn't give a shit anymore... then who is chris cornell? I'm sorry but don't spend 20 years building a fan base around a specific type of music and then 20 years later decide its time to mix in some dance hits... i mean unless you just totally want to lose all your previous credibility and respect. Makes sense right?

No, it really doesn't make sense.

Going by your logic, Cornell basically HAS to make the same kind of music he's always made and is known for, and can't veer off the beaten path.

God forbid musical artists do what the fuck they want and try things atypical of the music they're known for. :roll:

You don't have to like it.

Music For Rhinos

dharma69 wrote:

I reserve the right to "shit all over" Scream and any other music that my ears find to be awful just as you have the right to love said awful music. You're swallowing quite a bit of judgementalism yourself.

I've had well over 6 months to digest songs from this album and I can honestly say that they sound as bad today as they did when I first heard them and no critic's input was necessary in order to come to this conlusion. And no on with half a brain thinks that any artist owes them anything of the pleasure of theri music; on that same note, no artist is entitled to any fan's unconditional and unquestioning loyalty. If an artist has yours, yay for you but I chose to like/dislike based on my own standards of quality. I don't go "baaaaaaa" because I'm not a mindless sheep for music. This time last year I left my mind wide open and hoped that something would come of this project that would be pique my brain and be worth the risk that he was taking. But vapid, low grade lyrics, recycled, unoriginal beats and processing that washes over the vocals instead of enhancing them does nothing for me. Apparently it does nothing for a lot of people.

People don't like Scream on its merits; be a grown up and just deal with it and you can still dig the album all you want.

Just because someone likes Scream does not mean they're a mindless sheep for music. Don't be snobby.

Fahka

Music For Rhinos wrote:

LeatherMandi wrote:

Thats all fine and fair but.. if 90 percent of your fan base is disgusted and doesn't give a shit anymore... then who is chris cornell? I'm sorry but don't spend 20 years building a fan base around a specific type of music and then 20 years later decide its time to mix in some dance hits... i mean unless you just totally want to lose all your previous credibility and respect. Makes sense right?

God forbid musical artists do what the fuck they want and try things atypical of the music they're known for. :roll:

You don't have to like it.

I guess it just sucks for him that everyone fucking hates it.. if it was different and good, that'd be another story. This is just a sad attempt for easy money and to be relevant again and yeah, its a little offensive to people who have supported him for many years under the pretense that he was a real artist ( i am sorry but i don't consider funky little beats that come out when you push a button to be respectable music or anything i would spend my money on) For shame i say, for shame.

dharma69

Music For Rhinos wrote:

dharma69 wrote:

I reserve the right to "shit all over" Scream and any other music that my ears find to be awful just as you have the right to love said awful music. You're swallowing quite a bit of judgementalism yourself.

I've had well over 6 months to digest songs from this album and I can honestly say that they sound as bad today as they did when I first heard them and no critic's input was necessary in order to come to this conlusion. And no on with half a brain thinks that any artist owes them anything of the pleasure of theri music; on that same note, no artist is entitled to any fan's unconditional and unquestioning loyalty. If an artist has yours, yay for you but I chose to like/dislike based on my own standards of quality. I don't go "baaaaaaa" because I'm not a mindless sheep for music. This time last year I left my mind wide open and hoped that something would come of this project that would be pique my brain and be worth the risk that he was taking. But vapid, low grade lyrics, recycled, unoriginal beats and processing that washes over the vocals instead of enhancing them does nothing for me. Apparently it does nothing for a lot of people.

People don't like Scream on its merits; be a grown up and just deal with it and you can still dig the album all you want.

Just because someone likes Scream does not mean they're a mindless sheep for music. Don't be snobby.

I didn't say they were.

Read what I said and not what you think I said.

smithnic

I don't know what your petty argument is about because I don't feel like reading pages and pages of purple writing, but the main point of this thread is how fucking terrible Cornell's album is. It's HORRIBLE!!! I only hope and pray to George Carlin (funnier and smarter than Jesus and still the 50-50 ratio) that it's a joke

Music For Rhinos

LeatherMandi wrote:

I guess it just sucks for him that everyone fucking hates it.. if it was different and good, that'd be another story. This is just a sad attempt for easy money and to be relevant again and yeah, its a little offensive to people who have supported him for many years under the pretense that he was a real artist ( i am sorry but i don't consider funky little beats that come out when you push a button to be respectable music or anything i would spend my money on) For shame i say, for shame.

1. not everyone hates it. there are people who like it.

2. if it was different and good? that's just your opinion. as far as some are concerned, it IS different and good.

3. any album released by any artist is an attempt for money. if it's for sale that is. this wouldn't include what radiohead did with 'in rainbows' for example even though one could pay for it if he or she wished.

dharma69 wrote:

Read what I said and not what you think I said.[/color]

okay, you're right. i take it back.

just saying everyone has their own opinion and it's very possible for someone to like the record in question.

smithnic wrote:

I don't know what your petty argument is about because I don't feel like reading pages and pages of purple writing, but the main point of this thread is how fucking terrible Cornell's album is. It's HORRIBLE!!! I only hope and pray to George Carlin (funnier and smarter than Jesus and still the 50-50 ratio) that it's a joke

just another opinion. an album being "terrible" is not an argument. it's an opinion. arguments are proven by facts.

Fahka

Music For Rhinos wrote:

LeatherMandi wrote:

I guess it just sucks for him that everyone fucking hates it.. if it was different and good, that'd be another story. This is just a sad attempt for easy money and to be relevant again and yeah, its a little offensive to people who have supported him for many years under the pretense that he was a real artist ( i am sorry but i don't consider funky little beats that come out when you push a button to be respectable music or anything i would spend my money on) For shame i say, for shame.

1. not everyone hates it. there are people who like it.

2. if it was different and good? that's just your opinion. as far as some are concerned, it IS different and good.

3. any album released by any artist is an attempt for money. if it's for sale that is. this wouldn't include what radiohead did with 'in rainbows' for example even though one could pay for it if he or she wished.

dharma69 wrote:

.

What is your point? Basically you have established that i have an a opinion...lol which is fine and all but...

JimNastics

Music For Rhinos wrote:

just another opinion. an album being "terrible" is not an argument. it's an opinion. arguments are proven by facts.

I just want to chime in here. You're getting nowhere fast with this "opinion" argument to be honest, which seems to be the common theme throughout this thread. We established long ago that everyone is entitled to an opinion and to express it publicly. The problem arises when these opinions, positive or negative, impact on performance. When this album underperforms sales wise, gets panned by the media, and panned by the public, you'll soon realise that all these negative opinions are far more important than you're suggesting. An album is a success or failure based on the effect that personal opinions have on making people want to buy it or not. I'd suggest, at this early stage, that Scream will be a failure. Then you have to ask yourself what does that say about the quality of the album, and you'll realise that you are in the overwhelming minority of people who honestly think this album is actually any good.

redrock

Music For Rhinos wrote:

..... arguments are proven by facts.

JimNastics wrote:

...When this album underperforms sales wise....

Sales.... that will be the FACT that will prove the point.

Leathermandi - I completely agree with your post.

Music For Rhinos

JimNastics wrote:

Music For Rhinos wrote:

just another opinion. an album being "terrible" is not an argument. it's an opinion. arguments are proven by facts.

I just want to chime in here. You're getting nowhere fast with this "opinion" argument to be honest, which seems to be the common theme throughout this thread. We established long ago that everyone is entitled to an opinion and to express it publicly. The problem arises when these opinions, positive or negative, impact on performance. When this album underperforms sales wise, gets panned by the media, and panned by the public, you'll soon realise that all these negative opinions are far more important than you're suggesting. An album is a success or failure based on the effect that personal opinions have on making people want to buy it or not. I'd suggest, at this early stage, that Scream will be a failure. Then you have to ask yourself what does that say about the quality of the album, and you'll realise that you are in the overwhelming minority of people who honestly think this album is actually any good.

you guys still don't get it. you're dead wrong, plain and simple.

you speak as if you are some kind of authority.

you said "The problem arises when these opinions, positive or negative, impact on performance."

that's STILL an opinion! who is anyone to say what is or isn't a good performance? if i like the album and think it's a good performance, then it is! and so on and so forth.

no one seems to be able to draw the line here. everyone is being very hard-headed and stubborn. it has been the mainstream to hate this album from the start.

WHO CARES what the media says??? are you kidding me? i have never let critics or the media dictate what i listen to or form my opinions/tastes for me.

what does it say about the quality of the album? doesn't matter! only matters to me what I think! and that rings true for everybody. majority, minority, doesn't matter!

if I think the album is good, then as far as i'm concerned.....it IS good quality.

you people obviously don't know the difference between fact and opinion as you've repeatedly shown.