2008 hall of fame class

AstroFan

Strangest Tribe wrote:

Rice only had one MVP like Dawson
Rice didn't have any World Series titles
Rice didn't have any Gold Gloves


so why is Rice getting more HOF votes than Dawson?

Why does Rice get more support than deserving HOFers like Bert Blyleven? Why did he get 50% more of the vote than an unquestionably(but not widely recognized) better OFer like Tim Raines?

Why is Jim Rice's peak held up as a shining example, even though a guy like Will Clark arguably had a better peak and a better career?

Jim Rice's best three year stretch was from 1977-1979. His OPS+ totals were 147, 157, and 154. He had a 128 career OPS+ and 1384 runs created.

Will Clark's best three year stretch was from 1987-1989. His OPS+ totals were 152, 160, and 175. Clark's career OPS+ was 137, and 1415 runs created. He was also better with the glove than Rice.

This year, Jim Rice came 16 votes short of the Hall Of Fame. In 2006, Will Clark only received 23 total votes.

Oh, and the nonsense of Rice being a feared hitter means nothing to me. Clark had 27 intentional walks in 1988. The most intentional walks Rice had in a season was 10. If Rice was feared to such an extent that it warrants a spot in the HOF, perhaps somebody could explain to me how Ben Oglivie, Don Baylor, and Ken Singleton all had more intentional walks in their careers than Rice did.

Poncier

AstroFan wrote:

Oh, and the nonsense of Rice being a feared hitter means nothing to me. Clark had 27 intentional walks in 1988. The most intentional walks Rice had in a season was 10. If Rice was feared to such an extent that it warrants a spot in the HOF, perhaps somebody could explain to me how Ben Oglivie, Don Baylor, and Ken Singleton all had more intentional walks in their careers than Rice did.

It may have a lot to do with the situation (is there an open base) and more importantly who is hitting behind him. With guys like Lynn, Fisk Yatsrzemski, Armas and others behind him intntional walks were not always a great option, and the guys in front of him for many years (Remy and Burleson) were almost exclusivly singles hitters..you don't walk a guy when 1st is occupied.

Are you old enough to have watched Rice play?
He was dominant for a pretty good stretch.

igotid88

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

if goose gossage is a hall of famer.....

then jim rice should have been a first ballot hall of famer....

like you said......for 10 years he was one of the most dominant players in the game.....

that was mostly fenway park. And there are players in the Hall who aren't elite.

igotid88

Mattingly got 86 votes. More than last year. I wish he would somehow sneak in.

Fighting Hellfish

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

these guys all hit the magic number of 3000 hits.....

murray has over 500 home runs along with those 3000 hits....

rickey henderson is a first ballot hall of famer......who should get 100% of the vote.....

Can you believe there's been a player who received 100% of the votes? There are people who thought Ted Williams, Joe Dimaggio, Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, etc... didn't belong in the HOF. Pop quiz...don't look it up. Can anyone name the player who received the highest percentage of votes?

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Fighting Hellfish wrote:

Can you believe there's been a player who received 100% of the votes? There are people who thought Ted Williams, Joe Dimaggio, Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, etc... didn't belong in the HOF. Pop quiz...don't look it up. Can anyone name the player who received the highest percentage of votes?

ryan or seaver????

Poncier

Fighting Hellfish wrote:

Can anyone name the player who received the highest percentage of votes?

Without looking it up, I think its original inductee Ty Cobb.

Stelly

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

ryan or seaver????

I agree with Speedy.

AstroFan

Poncier wrote:

It may have a lot to do with the situation (is there an open base) and more importantly who is hitting behind him. With guys like Lynn, Fisk Yatsrzemski, Armas and others behind him intntional walks were not always a great option, and the guys in front of him for many years (Remy and Burleson) were almost exclusivly singles hitters..you don't walk a guy when 1st is occupied.

Are you old enough to have watched Rice play?
He was dominant for a pretty good stretch.

Perhaps. But if we're considering 'fear' as an example of why he should be in the HOF without HOF numbers, I think there should be something more conclusive.

ryan or seaver????

I'm pretty sure one received the highest percentage, and the other received the most overall votes. (Seaver is more deserving of both)

Poncier

Since Hellfish hasn't brandished us the answer...I looked it up.
The top 5:

Tom Seaver
1992 430 425 98.84% P 1.

Nolan Ryan
1999 497 491 98.79% P 2.

Cal Ripken, Jr.
2007 545 537 98.53% SS 3.

Ty Cobb
1936 226 222 98.23% CF 4.

George Brett
1999 497 488 98.19% 3B 5.


The answer is Seaver, Ripken has the most votes with 537 out of 545
Ty Cobb must have been in my head from years ago as he was the leader until the 90's. I remembered he had received more votes than Babe Ruth which bothered many folks.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Fighting Hellfish wrote:

Can you believe there's been a player who received 100% of the votes? There are people who thought Ted Williams, Joe Dimaggio, Babe Ruth, Willie Mays, etc... didn't belong in the HOF. Pop quiz...don't look it up. Can anyone name the player who received the highest percentage of votes?

the hall of fame voting process is a bunch of fucking nonsense.....

and it always will be......because human beings are involved.....

gossage got 33% of the vote in 2000.....but 8 years later he gets 86% of the vote.....

how the fuck did he become more deserving in 8 years without ever throwing a fucking pitch?????

and like you mentioned .....there are assfucks who didnt believe willie mays was a first ballot hall of famer.......

AstroFan

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

and like you mentioned .....there are assfucks who didnt believe willie mays was a first ballot hall of famer.......

Enough people didn't think Joe DiMaggio was a first ballot HOFer, that he didn't even make the HOF on the first ballot. Or even the second....

Fighting Hellfish

sorry for asking the question, then disappearing. I'm only allowed on the computer when my 21 month old lets me. Pretty messed up in my opinion that Tom Seaver is by this standard the greatest palyer ever in the game. He's a great pitcher obviously, but the best player ever???

Fighting Hellfish

AstroFan wrote:

Enough people didn't think Joe DiMaggio was a first ballot HOFer, that he didn't even make the HOF on the first ballot. Or even the second....

wow. i didn't realize Dimaggio didn't get in the first 2 times. You know what would be funny? A great player comes up to vote for the first time. (No steroid allegations with this player) Let's say Tom Glavine for example. So many writers say either:

"he shouldn't be a 1st ballot, so I'll say no this year, and yes next year" or

"well, there's no way he should get 100%, so I'm gonna say no, so he only gets about 85-90%"

That he ends up getting only a dozen or so votes, and thus isn't eligible for future ballots. It's obviously never gonna happen, but that's what it will take to change the system.