2007 Yankees

BetterManningNYG

Fighting Hellfish wrote:

My nephew is 10, big Yankee fan. He's been alive for 15% of the yankees World Series Champioships. I'm 32. Been alive for 19 % of them.

i was born a few days after they lost to the dodgers in '81. so i've also been alive for 15% of them.

this game is fun.

my dad has been alive for 58% of them. my grandfather has been alive for 100%. i needed a calculator for that last one. so i'm an idiot as well as a bandwagon jerk.

Fighting Hellfish

drew0 wrote:

lol, i listed two pitchers.

my point i'm trying to make is that yes, the yankees have homegrown talent. however, they buy do buy a lot of key players - you can't really deny that. is that a bad thing? not necessarily, but i don't have a lot of respect for teams who do such.

so every team should be the Kansas City Royals? Or The Minnesota Twins? Have billionaire owners who refuse to put a dime into their team?

Fighting Hellfish

BetterManningNYG wrote:

i was born a few days after they lost to the dodgers in '81. so i've also been alive for 15% of them.

this game is fun.

my dad has been alive for 58% of them. my grandfather has been alive for 100%. i needed a calculator for that last one. so i'm an idiot as well as a bandwagon jerk.

Crap, I used a calculator for all of them....and I'm a finance guy....

ETA: My nephew was lucky. he was 6 weeks old for the 96 championship

drew0

Allie wrote:

They have pride and they have heart
and do you know how many players they have 'developed' who are on their postseason roster? Honestly, do you?
Joba, Phil Hughes, Kennedy, Andy, Mo, Jorge, Derek... the list goes on...

they might have pride - i'm really not sure. i doubt a lot of their fans really do, except for their rings, since they seem to relate all arguements back to that. (that is more aimed at the yankee fans who don't even have a connection to new york, but simply root for the team because they're successful).

from my perspective, and it may be biased, the indians want this title a lot more than the yankees do.

and, yes, i know what players have been 'developed' by the yankees, so don't give me that. it's up to you to decide over whether or not it is a bad thing to buy key players. is everyone on the yankees list bought? of course not. however, all i'm trying to say is that a lot of key players are. could they win without them? who knows - certainly neither of us. however, and this is solely my opinion (and a lot of baseball worlds), one reason we don't hold a lot of respect for the yankees is because they buy a lot of their talent, and a lot gets related back to money. damon and a-rod were the two buys that really put me over the edge, but that's just me. how many of those players would they be hold onto if they didn't have the salary cap that they have? obviously we can't really debate that because neither of us could tell, but it's at least something to think about, and another factor that a lot of consider when saying that the yankees "buy talent".

you can hate on me all you want, or call me unintelligent or claim that i don't do my research. i'm a big baseball fan, but i don't follow it as closely as some of you, or as close as i'd like to. however, i believe i know what i'm talking about, and from my perspective it's close-minded yankee fans like you who fail to see why people like me cannot stand the thought of your franchise. nearly every time i have seen someone highlight the reasons they don't like the franchise to a yankees fan, they take the same approach that you all have. defensive, claiming they "don't know what they're talking about", and fail to even look at the highlighted faults with an open mind.

drew0

Allie wrote:

how much did they pay for Kenny Lofton then?

he didn't originally start off as an indian, but he developed there and became the player he is today under the franchise. so, at least to me - object if you want, that they acquired kenny lofton because he became the player he is with them, and essentially was coming home. notice i didn't list pettitte as one whom they "bought", for, i'm not sure if you consider it the same, but at least in the same light, he developed his career and became the player he is today under the yankees. when the acquired him back, i don't really consider it in the same group as deals like damon, a-rod, clemens, and giambi.

BetterManningNYG

JSBE wrote:

wang didn't have it tonight. his sinker wasn't sinking. without even looking at a score i would know something didn't go right because he gave up a couple hrs.

most of us were hoping that torre would pitch pettitte in game one and save wang for game three. i posted these splits on wang a few days ago:

home: 10-4, 2.75 ERA, 1.13 WHIP, .235 BAA
away: 9-3, 4.91 ERA, 1.50 WHIP, .300 BAA

ridiculous.

JSBE wrote:

the game would have obviously been a lot different had the yanks taken advantage of a less than stellar sabathia with his 5 walks. bases loaded in the 5th and he gets a pop-up to get out of the inning.

jeter and posada didn't show up tonight. that's not how the yankees win in october.

BetterManningNYG

drew0 wrote:

Mussini, Giambi, Damon, A-Rod, Clemens? Yeah, they have homegrown talent, but they still bought all of those stars.

they traded one of the best players in the league for a-rod: alfonso soriano. homegrown.

and the yankees are only paying $16 million a year on his current contract. any team would sign up for that, even the royals or devil rays. a-rod probably generates more than $16 million a year in revenue by himself.

BetterThanYou

drew0 wrote:

they might have pride - i'm really not sure. i doubt a lot of their fans really do, except for their rings, since they seem to relate all arguements back to that. (that is more aimed at the yankee fans who don't even have a connection to new york, but simply root for the team because they're successful).

from my perspective, and it may be biased, the indians want this title a lot more than the yankees do.

and, yes, i know what players have been 'developed' by the yankees, so don't give me that. it's up to you to decide over whether or not it is a bad thing to buy key players. is everyone on the yankees list bought? of course not. however, all i'm trying to say is that a lot of key players are. could they win without them? who knows - certainly neither of us. however, and this is solely my opinion (and a lot of baseball worlds), one reason we don't hold a lot of respect for the yankees is because they buy a lot of their talent, and a lot gets related back to money. damon and a-rod were the two buys that really put me over the edge, but that's just me. how many of those players would they be hold onto if they didn't have the salary cap that they have? obviously we can't really debate that because neither of us could tell, but it's at least something to think about, and another factor that a lot of consider when saying that the yankees "buy talent".

you can hate on me all you want, or call me unintelligent or claim that i don't do my research. i'm a big baseball fan, but i don't follow it as closely as some of you, or as close as i'd like to. however, i believe i know what i'm talking about, and from my perspective it's close-minded yankee fans like you who fail to see why people like me cannot stand the thought of your franchise. nearly every time i have seen someone highlight the reasons they don't like the franchise to a yankees fan, they take the same approach that you all have. defensive, claiming they "don't know what they're talking about", and fail to even look at the highlighted faults with an open mind.

are you honestly saying the reason you don't like the yankees is because when someone is available and the yankees offer them a contract, the player takes it? you think because they're the yankees they shouldn't go after top dollar free agents?

Allie

drew0 wrote:

they might have pride - i'm really not sure. i doubt a lot of their fans really do, except for their rings, since they seem to relate all arguements back to that. (that is more aimed at the yankee fans who don't even have a connection to new york, but simply root for the team because they're successful).

from my perspective, and it may be biased, the indians want this title a lot more than the yankees do.

and, yes, i know what players have been 'developed' by the yankees, so don't give me that. it's up to you to decide over whether or not it is a bad thing to buy key players. is everyone on the yankees list bought? of course not. however, all i'm trying to say is that a lot of key players are. could they win without them? who knows - certainly neither of us. however, and this is solely my opinion (and a lot of baseball worlds), one reason we don't hold a lot of respect for the yankees is because they buy a lot of their talent, and a lot gets related back to money. damon and a-rod were the two buys that really put me over the edge, but that's just me. how many of those players would they be hold onto if they didn't have the salary cap that they have? obviously we can't really debate that because neither of us could tell, but it's at least something to think about, and another factor that a lot of consider when saying that the yankees "buy talent".

quote]



your first words are the whole problem w/the argument. I'm not hating on you I just disagree. "You're not really sure?" if the Yankees have pride?

How can you comment on something you are not sure about then?

I am a baseball fan in general, not just a Yankee fan, and I "get" your argument and I did not insult you or call you any negative names so please do not say that about me.

I don't just root for the Yankees b/c they have 26 championships but whenever someone brings that up, if you're not a Yankee fan, people don't want to hear it even though it's the truth. I don't bring that up as the only reason why I like them-I bring it up to talk about the history of the franchise, the legends, the culture, it's a source of pride.

You can't tell from my signature but I am from New York, born and raised.

The Yankees' sole purpose from day 1 in spring training is to win the World Championship. In fact I would argue that any player that suits up has the same goal. To win it all. So I don't see how you can argue your players want it more than ours.


You argument about buying a championship doesn't take into account the 'key' players who have been KEY for the Yankees in their championship runs. They wouldn't have won many of those championships without Derek Jeter and most especially w/o Mariano Rivera . and NOBODY, nobody wants to win more than Derek. Absolutely nobody.

We won in 1996 in no small part to Jimmy Leyritz, who started his career with the Yankees. Paulie O'Neill may not have come up in the Yanks system but Steinbrenner himself called him a "warrior" and he had a lot to do with our victories as well, and Andy Pettite pitched big games in that championship.

If you followed the team and watched all the games you would know that there have been a lot of Key Players, it's not just all about A-Rod.

We haven't even won a championship since A-Rod came on board.


And Damon and A-rod don't pitch. Our second half surge which got us to this post season had alot to do with the pitching and many of those players also came up in the system.

gue_barium

I think they should just play for a couple of cases of beer each game, and a $40 whore for the MVP.

Fighting Hellfish

This is what bothers me most about "The Yankees Buy their championships" BS. The Yankees were very smart in the 1990's under Gene Michael and built the team on:

DRAFTING & SCOUTING

(Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, Rivera, Orlando Hernandez etc...)

REMARKABLY SHREWD TRADES

Dave Cone for Marty Janzen, Jason Jarvis and Mike Gordon,
Scott Brosius for Kenny Rogers,
Paul O'Neill for Roberto Kelly,
Tino Martinez and Jeff Nelson for Russ Davis and Sterling Hitchcock, a move I hated at the time, as it officially ended Don Mattinglys playing career)

AND A FEW VERY SMART FREE AGENTS

Jimmy Key, Wade Boggs, Joe Girardi (another move I hated at the time. Mike Stanley was the man)

That group won 4 WS in 5 years. A feat that will very likely never be repeated. Then after losing the WS in 2001, they started going crazy with the free agents, signing or trading for Giambi, Randy johnson, Sheffield, ARod, damon, matsui, igawa, etc... and haven't won a WS since

Point is, the teams that won every year were built on out smarting other teams, and the Yankees don't get any credit for that. The teams from 2002 on were built on outspending other teams, and they just have 2 pennants and a bunch of division titles to show for it.

Fighting Hellfish

BetterThanYou wrote:

are you honestly saying the reason you don't like the yankees is because when someone is available and the yankees offer them a contract, the player takes it? you think because they're the yankees they shouldn't go after top dollar free agents?

Didn't you know? His favorite team is the Albuquerque Socialists. They're mediocre. Play .500 ball. Then again, every team in the league plays .500 ball.

drew0

Fighting Hellfish wrote:

This is what bothers me most about "The Yankees Buy their championships" BS. The Yankees were very smart in the 1990's under Gene Michael and built the team on:

Point is, the teams that won every year were built on out smarting other teams, and the Yankees don't get any credit for that. The teams from 2002 on were built on outspending other teams, and they just have 2 pennants and a bunch of division titles to show for it.

and i have a tremendous amount of respect for michael and the teams that won the WS those four years - you can't beat that, and i salute them for it. the yankees of the '00s have outspent teams to get a lot of good free agents. yes, it's good baseball, but i just don't have a lot of respect for that - that's my perspective. have they bought everyone? no, but as stated above they've bought a fair amount of key players. as yankee fans, i understand that you don't mind that - that's just my personal preference. not to bash you, because i respect some yankee fans, but people on here that call be insufficient and attack anyone who speaks a bad word about the yankees is the reason that you have such a bad reputation, as fans, in baseball. take it for what you want, but that's just my opinion - i attempted to outline it for you clearly, and i hope you can see where me, and a lot of my peers are coming from.

Fighting Hellfish

well, I'm certainly not going say The yanks haven't gone overboard with spending in the past few years. I have to say, for a while it was considered a joke if they did not win the WS. One point I'm trying to make is that those days are gone. the rest of the league just hasn't noticed yet. Damon was the last big free agent the Yankees will overspend for. I'm not saying they will stay out of the free agent pool, but you won't see the Yanks set the bar anymore, or even take place in bidding wars. Cashman has evem come out publicly and said that if Arod opts out, that they are done with him. They will not get into bididng on him in free agency. A few years ago, Hughes and Joba would have been shipped out on July 31 to bring back some washed up pitcher or slugger. Now, and it may be because Steinbrenner is not well at all, they are going to go with their own more than ever before. Cashman even said this year that he'd rather The yanks miss the playoffs this year, and lose his job, than risk the long term health of the organization by trading away guys like Hughes, Joba, Wang, Cano, etc...

By the way, talking about tardes reminds me of one of the best ever. The Tribe bringing in Sizemore, Cliff Lee and Brandon Phillips from Omar Minaya and The Expos in exchange for Bartolo Colon. Was that Shapiro who ripped off Omar, or Hart?

BetterManningNYG

drew0 wrote:

you can hate on me all you want, or call me unintelligent or claim that i don't do my research. i'm a big baseball fan, but i don't follow it as closely as some of you, or as close as i'd like to.

you come into this thread and immediately state that you have less than absolute zero respect for anyone in here.

and how exactly did you expect us to react? by welcoming you and collectively offering you some biscuits and a cup of tea?

yeah... wasn't gonna happen...

drew0 wrote:

however, i believe i know what i'm talking about, and from my perspective it's close-minded yankee fans like you who fail to see why people like me cannot stand the thought of your franchise. nearly every time i have seen someone highlight the reasons they don't like the franchise to a yankees fan, they take the same approach that you all have. defensive, claiming they "don't know what they're talking about", and fail to even look at the highlighted faults with an open mind.

close-minded? i don't think that's what's going on at all.

i think it's just that the average yankee fan is sick to fucking death of hearing people whine at us all the time. it turns out that you're not the only one who complains to us about our team. there are millions of you all over the world, and i'm truly sorry if we can't make the time to give each and every one of you the attention you deserve...

we're not failing to see anything. you hate the yankees because they win all the time and spend a ton of money doing it. is it really any more complex than that?

what you have to understand is that us real yankee fans (yes, there are a few of us) are fully aware that buying every free agent in the world is not the way to win. we've been against george steinbrenner's agenda for years. even more so than yourself, perhaps...

we couldn't be happier that they're finally starting to reverse their policy. the yankees turned around their season by relying on the help of a lot of very talented young players. if it were any other team, it would have been a great story.

Allie

yeah that's another thing
I never liked the A-Rod trade and I think he's a jinx on the team, and so does my Dad. Who's 74 so y'all can do the math on how many championships he's seen

He wears #13, and we haven't won it all since he's been there. Coincidence?

Plus I said from the minute we got him, what do we need him for? We have a SS and he can't pitch. We needed reliable, younger, starting pitching.

BetterManningNYG

gue_barium wrote:

I think they should just play for a couple of cases of beer each game, and a $40 whore for the MVP.

i call shortstop!

igotid88

Allie wrote:

yeah that's another thing
I never liked the A-Rod trade and I think he's a jinx on the team, and so does my Dad. Who's 74 so y'all can do the math on how many championships he's seen

He wears #13, and we haven't won it all since he's been there. Coincidence?

Plus I said from the minute we got him, what do we need him for? We have a SS and he can't pitch. We needed reliable, younger, starting pitching.

We haven't won since we got Giambi and Mussina. Not just A-Rod.

Fighting Hellfish

igotid88 wrote:

We haven't won since we got Giambi and Mussina. Not just A-Rod.

and Sweeney Murti (WFAN's yankee beat reporter who took over the Yankee assignment after the 2000 season)

Allie

Fighting Hellfish wrote:

and Sweeney Murti (WFAN's yankee beat reporter who took over the Yankee assignment after the 2000 season)

I like Sweeney
but A-rod is a jinx
he comes over and look what happens? That pesky matter with the Red Sox of which will shall not speak

and bupkus since-we lost to Anaheim, and Detroit! DETROIT! (sorry SS)