mitchell list with the names here

The Champ

Fighting Hellfish wrote:

Do you think it's appropriate that Selig hired his best friend to investigate the matter, when part of the investigation requires looking into Selig himself? Keep in mind that Mitchell is the director of the Red Sox, and there is much controversy over how this particular ownership group came to take control of the team. One could easily make a case that Mitchell "owes" Selig. When The Red Sox went up for sale, there were bids for substantially more money than the "Henry bid". Yet Selig managed to have the Sox sold to the lowest bidder, John Henry and co, including George Mitchell. This whole thing stinks. If a truly independent investigator were hired, I can guarantee you there would be more of an onus put on Selig as commssioner, as well as all owners (Which of course includes Bud Selig, a sowner of the Brewers)

I understand what you are saying, but it's hard for me to believe that Mitchell would jeopardize and/or minimize everything he as accomplished in this world over something like this. Many feel like I do, but you are definitely entitled to your opinion..

Fighting Hellfish

I just think a truly independent guy should have been hired. By hiring a friend and a director of a team, Selig put this whole thing under a cloud of suspicion before it even started

xavier mcdaniel

another thing with clemens is not his performance but behavior. wouldn't it be possible that the two incidents with piazza in 2000 (when the report says he started up again) be related to being on the juice?

mookie9999

xavier mcdaniel wrote:

another thing with clemens is not his performance but behavior. wouldn't it be possible that the two incidents with piazza in 2000 (when the report says he started up again) be related to being on the juice?

You lika da juice?

http://www.hubsrestaurant.com/snl/

Ledbetterus

The Piazza stuff in 200 had nothing to do with steroids. That's like saying every incident in sports or anything for that matter, was because of steroids. "OJ killed his wife cuz he was on R.O.I.D.S. man"

Not true. Anyone who has played a sport in at the earliest, high school, can tell you that it's intense and stuff just happens, it doesn't matter what you're taking.

Also, for Clemens and Pettitte. About 3 or 4 years ago ESPN (or maybe it was YES Network) did a huge segement on their work out regimen. People seem to forget that these two guys spent entire years working out harder than anyone could even imagine. You ever watch the Navy S.E.A.L. stuff on the Discovery channel? Their workouts were similar. I remember Andy was mad that Roger was getting up earlier and more refreshed at the age of 40 (or whatever). Then they had to do like 8 hours of pure strength training and then running, EVERY DAY IN THE OFF SEASON!

Idk, but it was crazy. Who the hell would put this shit into their body after going crazy shaping yourself? It doesn't make sense. I mean, after all of this conditioning, a smart person wouldn't need to touch that stuff, and if they did they wouldn't go through THAT intense of a workout.

Until I hear it from Clemens or Pettitte I will not believe a word of it. This report is hearsay from people trying to get out of trouble.

chikevin

Ledbetterus wrote:

Also, for Clemens and Pettitte. About 3 or 4 years ago ESPN (or maybe it was YES Network) did a huge segement on their work out regimen. People seem to forget that these two guys spent entire years working out harder than anyone could even imagine. You ever watch the Navy S.E.A.L. stuff on the Discovery channel? Their workouts were similar. I remember Andy was mad that Roger was getting up earlier and more refreshed at the age of 40 (or whatever). Then they had to do like 8 hours of pure strength training and then running, EVERY DAY IN THE OFF SEASON!

not to be argumentative, but...are you from new york?

Ledbetterus

chikevin wrote:

not to be argumentative, but...are you from new york?

No.

BetterManningNYG

this is probably the only time you'll ever hear me say these words:

i agree with dan shaughnessy. :eek:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2007/12/14/tainted_gloves/

Why name names? Why sign on to such an obviously incomplete report (Mitchell did not have subpoena powers and almost 100 percent of the ballplayers told him to take a hike)? Why put so much weight on the testimony of a former bat boy and a onetime trainer who cooperated under the threat of prison time?

Mitchell again arrogantly dismissed his obvious conflict of interest by citing his good works and his efforts brokering peace in Northern Ireland. It's astounding that a man as smart as Mitchell can so easily shrug off his compromised position. He either has a blind spot or he thinks his audience is stupid. The man is the official "director" of the Red Sox and he just issued a report that trashes some Yankee gods while leaving the championship Red Sox unscathed (Mo Vaughn played here in the pre-Mitchell era, Eric Gagné was dirty as a Dodger, and who cares about Mike Lansing?). Mitchell's reputation is impeccable, but he had no business holding his Red Sox title while conducting this investigation.

aspoonfulweighsaton

Well, Pettitte has stepped up and admitted to it, which just even further validates everything McNamee said.

Maybe Clemens will own up and be a man next.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-pettitte-hghadmission&prov=ap&type=lgns

Fighting Hellfish

BetterManningNYG wrote:

this is probably the only time you'll ever hear me say these words:

i agree with dan shaughnessy. :eek:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/articles/2007/12/14/tainted_gloves/

did he really hold the trophy? Partake in the celebration?

cubbieblue82

One of the things that strikes me about the report is that there seems to be a good amount of evidence against 80 players coming from 2 distributors! Imagine the number of guys who will go down when they start to bust more of the distributors.

I think Clemens is now guilty by association with the admission by Pettite. I guarantee that if Pettite was doing it, his good friend Clemens did also. It also shows that McNamee does have some credibility and isnt just making up accusations as some of you are suggesting.

I can see how a finesse pitcher like Maddux could keep it up over the years, but there's no way a power pitcher like Clemens could stay successful at his age. If there was ever any doubt in the first place, this puts Maddux above and beyond any other pitcher in this era.

xavier mcdaniel

i'd guess that some of the players from the midwestern cities might start to get named if and when that happens.

The Champ

aspoonfulweighsaton wrote:

Well, Pettitte has stepped up and admitted to it, which just even further validates everything McNamee said.

Maybe Clemens will own up and be a man next.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-pettitte-hghadmission&prov=ap&type=lgns

Wow, I guess that's that....How could Clemens dance around this? Now that Pettitte said he took it for whatever reason..That's it, it's over..

Fighting Hellfish

I still wouldn't go that far. I understand I maybe the 17 year old who still believes in Santa at this point....but I don't think you can say with certainty that Clemens juiced. And that's coming from a guy who thinks Clemens probably did it. And I agree that Pettitte's admission hurt Roger. But 1 + 1 does not equal 3 here

PJ_Saluki

Gimme a break about that. I'm too drunk/lazy to look up the stats, but Rocket got better in his late-30s/early-40s than he ever was before then. He was washed up his last couple years in Boston and he miraculously finds the fountain of youth in Toronto? I'm just pissed the Pirates didn't have more guys juicing. Maybe they wouldn't be killing me with a 15-year losing streak! Sports are dirty kids, whether it's redshirts cheating on tests, pros loading up on pharms or owners holding cities hostage. Life is sport. Take that for what it's worth.

cubbieblue82

xavier mcdaniel wrote:

i'd guess that some of the players from the midwestern cities might start to get named if and when that happens.

Yep. I mean no Sammy mention at all? I'm a Cubs fan and even I was shocked not to see Sosa or Prior on the list. I guess only time will tell if the feds are able to find more of these distributors.

It shouldn't be all that hard. I remember when Sosa was playing for the Cubs he had some kind of clubhouse "friend" that sounds very similar to this McNamee guy. I'm guessing if he was brought in for questioning, they might turn up something.

cubbieblue82

Fighting Hellfish wrote:

I still wouldn't go that far. I understand I maybe the 17 year old who still believes in Santa at this point....but I don't think you can say with certainty that Clemens juiced. And that's coming from a guy who thinks Clemens probably did it. And I agree that Pettitte's admission hurt Roger. But 1 + 1 does not equal 3 here

Come on man. It might not hold up in court but you have to be blind to not know he was on the roids. Do you also not believe that Bonds was juicing since you have his word that he never did knowingly?

It seems like Clemens is almost a mentor to Petitte, so I can easily see Petitte going to Clemens for advice and getting referred to his roids supplier McNamee. I really respect Petitte for coming clean, Clemens can keep his head in the sand all he wants, but as far as I'm concerned he's guilty as charged.

soulsinging

this shit is getting ridiculous. the guy on espn was just comparing this to african apartheid and the northern ireland peace talks. get the fuck over yourselves. it's a fucking sport, a goddamn game. drawing parallels to slavery and prejudice is fucking ridiculous and sick.

xavier mcdaniel

glad i missed that, more nonsense from espn. but i agree with you comparing a sport to those things is absurd.

PJ_Saluki

soulsinging wrote:

this shit is getting ridiculous. the guy on espn was just comparing this to african apartheid and the northern ireland peace talks. get the fuck over yourselves. it's a fucking sport, a goddamn game. drawing parallels to slavery and prejudice is fucking ridiculous and sick.

Where they talking Mitchell's work in the Senate or something? I know he was involved in the Irish peace talks. Surely ESPN insn't that ridiculous, especially after they probably crushed Nick Saban for his boneheaded 9/11 references after a loss.