Yes, and that is more or less the point...pre-HGH and the spy-gate, NO ONE would use the words "very likely were" to describe the legitimacy of the Pats SBs.
It knocks their franchise down completely, and the questions will remain. Also, what if this is just the tip of the iceberg?
Maybe its just me, but I wouldn't want the championship teams that I follow to have a "very likely were" tag attached to them....and some sports writers have gone even further than Banks.
Yes and all these sportswriters are merely speculating.
Goodell hasn't even said what was on the tape from Sunday. The media is leaping to all sorts of conclusions. Wouldn't it be funny if the tape was of Mangini eating a pregame calzone.
Yes and all these sportswriters are merely speculating.
Goodell hasn't even said what was on the tape from Sunday. The media is leaping to all sorts of conclusions. Wouldn't it be funny if the tape was of Mangini eating a pregame calzone.
Yes, that would be funny. Is that what you are banking on? What if Goodell is waiting so long because he is gathering other evidence as well?
Yes, that would be funny. Is that what you are banking on? What if Goodell is waiting so long because he is gathering other evidence as well?
I'm not banking on it, but it would be hilarious. I think Goodell is waiting cause he's trying to decide the appropriate action to take. Its uncharted territory. So until he speaks, nobody knows for sure exactly how egregious the infraction is, but every sportswriter/anchor in the country has already formed their opinion.
Any Pats fan who doesn't realize that their legacy has been completely washed away by this is kidding themselves, its a stigma that will last forever when talking about 2000-2006. Congrats, you root for the league joke again!
to anyone that thinks that the super bowl wins were not legit...do you seriously think the pats were just toying with the rams and panthers for 95% of each game - just keeping it close for fun just so they could make them driving down the field each time for a winning field goal all that more exciting for viewers at home? please.
i totally agree with this quote...
"It's quite obvious that when you're signaling defensively, the other bench is like a guy on second base. If the pitcher or catcher is giving away signals, then he can relay things. But that's part of the game. You're not talking about having a camera set up on the center field fence that you're looking and shooting the catcher's signals and then studying that before you go play that opponent." -- Jack Del Rio, Jacksonville Jaguars head coach
i remember the cleveland indians had a camera in centerfield that they had to cover because they were accused of stealing signs. i believe it was the red sox that pointed it out late in the season.
also...
from an espn.com article:
"New England realistically may have been able to catch one or two plays from doing that and they could've had somebody in the press box getting the same information," said former Atlanta Falcons general manager Ken Herock, who also worked as an executive in Oakland and Green Bay. "And what you're actually talking about is one or two plays out of about 60 snaps a game. That really isn't a great advantage."
Plus, there is no guarantee a team will capitalize when it knows what plays are coming. A pass can be dropped, a block missed or a snap fumbled. There also are these likelihoods: A team can change its signs frequently, which often happens in the NFL, or a coach can confuse his own players with too much information about opponents.
and...
"One thing people are forgetting is that even if you have the answers to the test, you still have to take the test," he (Donovan McNabb) said. "If they have an idea of what's coming, those guys still have to be able to execute the play."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
i'll wait until the final ruling from the commish before jumping to any further conclusions, but like i said before, as a pats fan, i'm pretty embarassed and disappointed that it (and i mean the filming, not just getting caught) happened.
I'm a diehard Dallas fan. I once punched my own mom in the tits for making a rude comment about Tony Dorsett. Anyway, signal stealing doesn't detract from the Patriots success.
True Story.
All you haters want to win a Superbowl, jump on the motherfucking bandwagon and start paying attention to people on the sidelines who look like air traffic controllers.
to anyone that thinks that the super bowl wins were not legit...do you seriously think the pats were just toying with the rams and panthers for 95% of each game - just keeping it close for fun just so they could make them driving down the field each time for a winning field goal all that more exciting for viewers at home? please.
Frankly, that is horrible logic. In fact your whole post was, no offense.
The fact that they won a lot of close games, and that the advantage of stealing signals is arguably a small advantage is EXACTLY the point.
Stealing one or two signals a game (it was probably more) could easily mean the difference between winning or losing by a field goal.....
i'm pretty sure we'll never officially find out what is on the tape, but i am curious to see what the commish has to say in his official statement.
i'm guessing the sidelines are going to be pretty empty around the league this sunday/monday so as to not let anyone think that there are unauthorized people lurking around doing something against the rules.
Frankly, that is horrible logic. In fact your whole post was, no offense.
The fact that they won a lot of close games, and that the advantage of stealing signals is arguably a small advantage is EXACTLY the point.
Stealing one or two signals a game (it was probably more) could easily mean the difference between winning or losing by a field goal.....
no offense taken, but i'm not sure how it was horrible logic. had the pats known what was coming, why would they have to come from behind to win each time? wouldn't they just have totally blown the other team out?
just because some games were close doesn't mean that any knowledge they were able to decipher from alleged sign stealing would lead them to end up on the winning side at the end of the game.
at this point, whatever. i still love my pats and always will. the team was fined, will lose a draft pick, end of story for me.
i realize that everything for the rest of the season will be under the microscope. if the pats beat sd on sunday night they did because they're cheaters and if they lose it is because they couldn't cheat.
no offense taken, but i'm not sure how it was horrible logic. had the pats known what was coming, why would they have to come from behind to win each time? wouldn't they just have totally blown the other team out?
just because some games were close doesn't mean that any knowledge they were able to decipher from alleged sign stealing would lead them to end up on the winning side at the end of the game.
Its horrible logic because knowing a couple of plays a game won't lead to a blow out, but what it will lead to is a quick 3 and out, or a sack, or maybe an interception. The little things, which over the course of a close game could be the difference.
If you read back in this thread, people are arguing (rightfully) that the Pats blew out the Jets, so even if they did have a few plays, it really didn't matter. That should be your argument, not that close games is proof they didn't cheat!
In reality, knowing the plays probably gives them a 0 to 3 point advantage in each game.
Its horrible logic because knowing a couple of plays a game won't lead to a blow out, but what it will lead to is a quick 3 and out, or a sack, or maybe an interception. The little things, which over the course of a close game could be the difference.
If you read back in this thread, people are arguing (rightfully) that the Pats blew out the Jets, so even if they did have a few plays, it really didn't matter. That should be your argument, not that close games is proof they didn't cheat!
In reality, knowing the plays probably gives them a 0 to 3 point advantage in each game.
i guess we will just disagree.
i don't understand how it would lead to a quick 3 and out if the pats are on offense and they know what play the defense is going to use. i mean, if the pats know what is coming, wouldn't they run an offensive play to take advantage of that...? or am i thinking way too simple here?
official statement from the commish. i don't know if this is all of it.
“This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,” Commissioner Roger Goodell wrote in a letter to the Patriots.
"I specifically considered whether to impose a suspension on Coach Belichick," Goodell also wrote. "I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."
i'm hearing that belichick and the patriots were fined a total of 750,000. bellichick is fined 500,000, patriots 250,000 and if the pats makes the playoffs, they will surrender their first-round picks.
Reading 2004
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016 Fenway 2, 2018 MSG 2022 St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023 MSG 2024, MSG 2024 Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
i'm hearing that belichick and the patriots were fined a total of 750,000. bellichick is fined 500,000, patriots 250,000 and if the pats makes the playoffs, they will surrender their first-round picks.
Pick, no S.
If they make the playoffs they give up their 2008 #1 (they still keep SF's that they got in trade), and if they don't make the playoffs (right) they keep both #1's but give up a 2 and a 3.
i'm hearing that belichick and the patriots were fined a total of 750,000. bellichick is fined 500,000, patriots 250,000 and if the pats makes the playoffs, they will surrender their first-round picks.
NFL fines Pats coach Bill Belichick $500,000 and team $250,000 for taping opponent's signals
By DAVE GOLDBERG, AP Football Writer
September 13, 2007
AP - Sep 13, 1:13 pm EDT
More Photos
NEW YORK (AP) -- New England coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for videotaping an opponent's offensive and defensive signals.
Commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up next year's first-round draft choice if it reaches the playoffs and second- and third-round picks if it doesn't.
"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell said in a letter to the Patriots.
i'm hearing that belichick and the patriots were fined a total of 750,000. bellichick is fined 500,000, patriots 250,000 and if the pats makes the playoffs, they will surrender their first-round picks.
NFL fines Pats coach Bill Belichick $500,000 and team $250,000 for taping opponent's signals
By DAVE GOLDBERG, AP Football Writer
September 13, 2007
AP - Sep 13, 1:13 pm EDT
More Photos
NEW YORK (AP) -- New England coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for videotaping an opponent's offensive and defensive signals.
Commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up next year's first-round draft choice if it reaches the playoffs and second- and third-round picks if it doesn't.
"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell said in a letter to the Patriots.
Ha Ha
HAHA so fucking glad,,,plus this will hang w/ them 4 ever good job bill
u a -hole
As a lifelong NE Patriots fan I see this thread continuing here all season long. I think that's great cause no matter what is said here back and forth the ONLY thing that matters is what happens on the field.
The J E T S will do there thing and the Patriots will do there's. Say when is the date of that rematch now that's a game I'm looking forward to?
Let's see if the J E T S can step and do something in Gillette Stadium.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
As a lifelong NE Patriots fan I see this thread continuing here all season long. I think that's great cause no matter what is said here back and forth the ONLY thing that matters is what happens on the field.
The J E T S will do there thing and the Patriots will do there's. Say when is the date of that rematch now that's a game I'm looking forward to?
Let's see if the J E T S can step and do something in Gillette Stadium.
I have, reputation tarnished and the J E T S still have a date in Gillette Stadium let's see what they'll do.
Still oblivious to the sport of football? The Boston Bruins will rise again...Lets go Bruins at least they're cheating but I'm sure you'll come up with something.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I have, reputation tarnished and the J E T S still have a date in Gillette Stadium let's see what they'll do.
Still oblivious to the sport of football? The Boston Bruins will rise again...Lets go Bruins at least they're cheating but I'm sure you'll come up with something.
"Belichick said in his Thursday night statement: "Part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations of them. My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect.''
You know what that is? It's a classic deflection by Belichick. Instead of simply admitting he broke the rules and saying he deserves to be censured, he throws the changeup and tries to smokescreen us. The "interpretation'' of the rule was in error. That's an insult to Goodell, and to every fan who loves either the Patriots, this game or both.
Goodell slapped Belichick hard, but not hard enough. A suspension should have accompanied the loss of the top draft choice."
Well at least the road games will be fun to watch, I'm sure fans around the league will have some great signs and heckles for Cheater Bill and the Pats. Too bad its two weeks away.
Everyone knew BB was a smug prick, now we all know he's a CHEATER too. We'll see soon how much the low down sneaky cheating helped. I'm not a Chargers fan, but i am this week !
"Belichick said in his Thursday night statement: "Part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations of them. My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect.''
You know what that is? It's a classic deflection by Belichick. Instead of simply admitting he broke the rules and saying he deserves to be censured, he throws the changeup and tries to smokescreen us. The "interpretation'' of the rule was in error. That's an insult to Goodell, and to every fan who loves either the Patriots, this game or both.
Goodell slapped Belichick hard, but not hard enough. A suspension should have accompanied the loss of the top draft choice."
Well at least the road games will be fun to watch, I'm sure fans around the league will have some great signs and heckles for Cheater Bill and the Pats. Too bad its two weeks away.
Everyone knew BB was a smug prick, now we all know he's a CHEATER too. We'll see soon how much the low down sneaky cheating helped. I'm not a Chargers fan, but i am this week !
Comments
Goodell hasn't even said what was on the tape from Sunday. The media is leaping to all sorts of conclusions. Wouldn't it be funny if the tape was of Mangini eating a pregame calzone.
Yes, that would be funny. Is that what you are banking on? What if Goodell is waiting so long because he is gathering other evidence as well?
THANK YOU
i totally agree with this quote...
"It's quite obvious that when you're signaling defensively, the other bench is like a guy on second base. If the pitcher or catcher is giving away signals, then he can relay things. But that's part of the game. You're not talking about having a camera set up on the center field fence that you're looking and shooting the catcher's signals and then studying that before you go play that opponent." -- Jack Del Rio, Jacksonville Jaguars head coach
i remember the cleveland indians had a camera in centerfield that they had to cover because they were accused of stealing signs. i believe it was the red sox that pointed it out late in the season.
also...
from an espn.com article:
"New England realistically may have been able to catch one or two plays from doing that and they could've had somebody in the press box getting the same information," said former Atlanta Falcons general manager Ken Herock, who also worked as an executive in Oakland and Green Bay. "And what you're actually talking about is one or two plays out of about 60 snaps a game. That really isn't a great advantage."
Plus, there is no guarantee a team will capitalize when it knows what plays are coming. A pass can be dropped, a block missed or a snap fumbled. There also are these likelihoods: A team can change its signs frequently, which often happens in the NFL, or a coach can confuse his own players with too much information about opponents.
and...
"One thing people are forgetting is that even if you have the answers to the test, you still have to take the test," he (Donovan McNabb) said. "If they have an idea of what's coming, those guys still have to be able to execute the play."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
i'll wait until the final ruling from the commish before jumping to any further conclusions, but like i said before, as a pats fan, i'm pretty embarassed and disappointed that it (and i mean the filming, not just getting caught) happened.
big fuckin deal
although the reputation hit is worse
i won't give a flying fuck when we win the superbowl
fuck you roger goodell
True Story.
All you haters want to win a Superbowl, jump on the motherfucking bandwagon and start paying attention to people on the sidelines who look like air traffic controllers.
That being said, Tom Brady can suck my hole.
Why would you start was has no end?
Frankly, that is horrible logic. In fact your whole post was, no offense.
The fact that they won a lot of close games, and that the advantage of stealing signals is arguably a small advantage is EXACTLY the point.
Stealing one or two signals a game (it was probably more) could easily mean the difference between winning or losing by a field goal.....
i'm guessing the sidelines are going to be pretty empty around the league this sunday/monday so as to not let anyone think that there are unauthorized people lurking around doing something against the rules.
no offense taken, but i'm not sure how it was horrible logic. had the pats known what was coming, why would they have to come from behind to win each time? wouldn't they just have totally blown the other team out?
just because some games were close doesn't mean that any knowledge they were able to decipher from alleged sign stealing would lead them to end up on the winning side at the end of the game.
at this point, whatever. i still love my pats and always will. the team was fined, will lose a draft pick, end of story for me.
i realize that everything for the rest of the season will be under the microscope. if the pats beat sd on sunday night they did because they're cheaters and if they lose it is because they couldn't cheat.
Its horrible logic because knowing a couple of plays a game won't lead to a blow out, but what it will lead to is a quick 3 and out, or a sack, or maybe an interception. The little things, which over the course of a close game could be the difference.
If you read back in this thread, people are arguing (rightfully) that the Pats blew out the Jets, so even if they did have a few plays, it really didn't matter. That should be your argument, not that close games is proof they didn't cheat!
In reality, knowing the plays probably gives them a 0 to 3 point advantage in each game.
he was probably eating a big fat dick
traitor snitch that he is
Its just like an 8th grade math test William Howard, show your work or you get no credit.
i guess we will just disagree.
i don't understand how it would lead to a quick 3 and out if the pats are on offense and they know what play the defense is going to use. i mean, if the pats know what is coming, wouldn't they run an offensive play to take advantage of that...? or am i thinking way too simple here?
“This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,” Commissioner Roger Goodell wrote in a letter to the Patriots.
"I specifically considered whether to impose a suspension on Coach Belichick," Goodell also wrote. "I have determined not to do so, largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."
Albany 2006 Camden 2006 E. Rutherford 2, 2006 Inglewood 2006,
Chicago 2007
Camden 2008 MSG 2008 MSG 2008 Hartford 2008.
Seattle 2009 Seattle 2009 Philadelphia 2009,Philadelphia 2009 Philadelphia 2009
Hartford 2010 MSG 2010 MSG 2010
Toronto 2011,Toronto 2011
Wrigley Field 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Brooklyn 2013 Philadelphia 2, 2013
Philadelphia 1, 2016 Philadelphia 2 2016 New York 2016 New York 2016 Fenway 1, 2016
Fenway 2, 2018
MSG 2022
St. Paul, 1, St. Paul 2 2023
MSG 2024, MSG 2024
Philadelphia 2024
"I play good, hard-nosed basketball.
Things happen in the game. Nothing you
can do. I don't go and say,
"I'm gonna beat this guy up."
If they make the playoffs they give up their 2008 #1 (they still keep SF's that they got in trade), and if they don't make the playoffs (right) they keep both #1's but give up a 2 and a 3.
NFL fines Pats coach Bill Belichick $500,000 and team $250,000 for taping opponent's signals
By DAVE GOLDBERG, AP Football Writer
September 13, 2007
AP - Sep 13, 1:13 pm EDT
More Photos
NEW YORK (AP) -- New England coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 Thursday and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for videotaping an opponent's offensive and defensive signals.
Commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up next year's first-round draft choice if it reaches the playoffs and second- and third-round picks if it doesn't.
"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell said in a letter to the Patriots.
Ha Ha
first round pick
only 1
and we still have one
big whoop
HAHA so fucking glad,,,plus this will hang w/ them 4 ever good job bill
u a -hole
As a lifelong NE Patriots fan I see this thread continuing here all season long. I think that's great cause no matter what is said here back and forth the ONLY thing that matters is what happens on the field.
The J E T S will do there thing and the Patriots will do there's. Say when is the date of that rematch now that's a game I'm looking forward to?
Let's see if the J E T S can step and do something in Gillette Stadium.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
u said the same thing 8 x ok they play again
reputation tarnished deal w/ it focker
I have, reputation tarnished and the J E T S still have a date in Gillette Stadium let's see what they'll do.
Still oblivious to the sport of football? The Boston Bruins will rise again...Lets go Bruins at least they're cheating but I'm sure you'll come up with something.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
i hope they do rise again
Peter King agrees with you Lou
"Belichick said in his Thursday night statement: "Part of my job as head coach is to ensure that our football operations are conducted in compliance of the league rules and all accepted interpretations of them. My interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect.''
You know what that is? It's a classic deflection by Belichick. Instead of simply admitting he broke the rules and saying he deserves to be censured, he throws the changeup and tries to smokescreen us. The "interpretation'' of the rule was in error. That's an insult to Goodell, and to every fan who loves either the Patriots, this game or both.
Goodell slapped Belichick hard, but not hard enough. A suspension should have accompanied the loss of the top draft choice."
Well at least the road games will be fun to watch, I'm sure fans around the league will have some great signs and heckles for Cheater Bill and the Pats. Too bad its two weeks away.
Everyone knew BB was a smug prick, now we all know he's a CHEATER too. We'll see soon how much the low down sneaky cheating helped. I'm not a Chargers fan, but i am this week !
yea what u said lol
BULLSHIT SUPERBOWLS
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com