Who really cares? Sorry, but this guy isn't electable come November. If the Democrats nominate him as expected, then McCain unfortunately wins it in a cakewalk. The problem is with Howard Dean and the DNC disinfranchising millions upon millions of voters in Michigan & Florida. This election is shaping up to be as big a disaster as the infamous 1988 Michael Dukakis campaign.
Sounds like I'm a Republican, right? Wrong! I'm a liberal Democrat who can see this train wreck coming from a mile away. What seemed absolutely laughable less than a year ago appears to be coming true: John McCain will be the next President, which makes nobody happy...Democrat or Republican. What is he, about 107 years old?
Obama hasn't won a single big State, except his own home of Illinois. Isn't anybody paying attention to that? It's all hype, and will cost the Democrats the election in November.
I agree, and somehow the guy who thinks Jim Webb should be VP thinks that we need to go back to poli sci. Jim Webb would bring nothing to the ticket. Virginia? Which Obama should win anyway?
Do you want ad after ad for a lack of Washington experience with an Obama/Webb ticket? While Webb is against this war, there isn't anything that doesn't make me think he might have his finger on another.
Obama is going to take Virginia???? Ok now your just on crack.
first of all, again with the big state thing. you think certain big blue states will turn red? ha.
you also seem to forget that obama won texas in the end.
you may also want to consider new states obama could pick up in a general, like, say, oregon.
McCain has a very good chance of beating Obama in California and possibly New York. Lots of pissed of Clinton supporters here in my State, and there are alot of them, are going to jump ship. Further Obama has lost almost every state with a large Latino population and that certainly wont change in November.
McCain has a very good chance of beating Obama in California and possibly New York. Lots of pissed of Clinton supporters here in my State, and there are alot of them, are going to jump ship. Further Obama has lost almost every state with a large Latino population and that certainly wont change in November.
Wow, so you have the "inside" that all the political experts don't? You should sell your sources to CNN, NBC, and all the others because I'm sure they'd pay top dollar for your expert knowledge on polling.
Yeah, Obama and Dukakis, what an insightful comparison, I've only heard 10 different talking heads claim the same thing over the past two weeks. Or McGovern (http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=ec466d61-a900-414c-8daf-16ff27ccf85c) for that matter. I've even heard adlai stevenson. Can't we all come together as a country and decide once and for all what failed democratic candidate Obama is most analogous to? My pick is James M. Cox.
McCain winning New York or California? I haven't seen many polls that would suggest that. Your anecdotal evidence is fascinating though. These are some of the most pro-choice states in the union, they aren't voting republican. Plus I'm not sure if you've heard of this issue called the Iraq war. Its very unpopular in both states.
And another thing, Latinos may have preferred Obama over Clinton, but theres little to no evidence that they'll support McCain over Obama. Besides, Obama Obama continues to improve his standing in the Latino community as the days go by.
McCain winning New York or California? I haven't seen many polls that would suggest that. Your anecdotal evidence is fascinating though.
Well, I'm sure you haven't seen any of these polls as they don't exist...all have Obama facing off against McCain much better than Clinton. It's been that way for some time. Gauco is talking out of his/her ass without facts.
Obama is going to take Virginia???? Ok now your just on crack.
If you went back to your Poli Sci class you would see that Virginia has taken a hard turn towards the Democratic Party because of the boom in the northern part of the state in the DC suburbs. Obama will make Virginia a state in play, and if Obama and Warner do some campaigning together I think they both could take the state. I think Warner is a shoe in, but Obama can also win.
Also, it should be, "OK, now you're just on crack.".
I'm a poli sci major and I must say I've never been asked to study the current political culture and trends of Virginia. That might just be because I'm a theory guy though. I'm sure they do that in the Potomac area though, but unless he attended a school in VA, that insult probably isn't applicable. I think you guys should find a different insult than "go back to poli sci". Its both nerdy and inaccurate.
All of those sum up the state of Pennsylvania perfectly.
Not at all. However, I think that the Obama campaign projects an image of thinking it, too, sums up PA this way. So long as the Obama campaign continues to apparently sneer at the above groups, it will continue to not be able to slam dunk anyone. With Hillary being as roundly disliked as she is, he should have blown her away. Instead, it will come down to the convention floor.
Being not entirely dull, however, I read that the Obama campaign plans to "fine-tune" itself--it will now emphasize Mr. Obama's humble origins as it realizes that without the working class, non-college educated people, old people, Catholics, etc., he won't be very competitive against McCain in the fall. So, we're going to get a manufactured love fest designed to persuade the chaff that they are valued after all. I'm already getting teary thinking of the mother's day ad he'll run where he gives kindly older women flowers and hugs since he no longer has his own mother to honor.
This race is pretty much over. Hillary can only hope for a miracle. Obama just isn't the kind of guy to make a big mistake. As long as he doesn't say anything really stupid he has this thing locked up. Hillary should bow out after she loses North Carolina but she won't. If Obama loses to McCain it will lie on Hillary's shoulders for dragging this out too long. She expected to be the next Pres and she can't let go and it will hurt the Dems. It's kind of funny to watch her campaigning still knowing she has no chance. Hillary needs to let go of her ego and give her support to the Democratic winner, Obama, before the convention starts or she will look like she wants McCain to win. No way does McCain win California no matter who he goes up against.
i wouldn't consider ten points, with only two candidates, a thumping. Its a solid win, but not a thumping. Furthermore, it wasn't actually a full ten points. About nine actually. Also, when you consider her lead ther was once apx. 30 points, just a few short weeks ago, a 9 point win seems even less like a thumping.
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
i wouldn't consider ten points, with only two candidates, a thumping. Its a solid win, but not a thumping. Furthermore, it wasn't actually a full ten points. About nine actually. Also, when you consider her lead ther was once apx. 30 points, just a few short weeks ago, a 9 point win seems even less like a thumping.
Thank you. I didn't want to bother explaining it.
Another habit says it's in love with you
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
This race is pretty much over. Hillary can only hope for a miracle. Obama just isn't the kind of guy to make a big mistake. As long as he doesn't say anything really stupid he has this thing locked up. Hillary should bow out after she loses North Carolina but she won't. If Obama loses to McCain it will lie on Hillary's shoulders for dragging this out too long. She expected to be the next Pres and she can't let go and it will hurt the Dems. It's kind of funny to watch her campaigning still knowing she has no chance. Hillary needs to let go of her ego and give her support to the Democratic winner, Obama, before the convention starts or she will look like she wants McCain to win. No way does McCain win California no matter who he goes up against.
Call me crazy, but i think, if Obama can survive the clinton smear machine, he may come out of it an even stronger candidate in the general election. McCain's talking points will have already been stolen from him. When he starts to scream "Reverend wright..., ahem bitter..., ahem Rezko..." Many people will yawn. Been there. Done that. "What else ya got, John?"
"When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
Call me crazy, but i think, if Obama can survive the clinton smear machine, he may come out of it an even stronger candidate in the general election. McCain's talking points will have already been stolen from him. When he starts to scream "Reverend wright..., ahem bitter..., ahem Rezko..." Many people will yawn. Been there. Done that. "What else ya got, John?"
This is probably true to an extent. Hillary will out Bush/Rove McCain. However, since right now its Dem v Dem, Fox and talk radio don't really know what to do. They'll be there to help McCain during the general.
I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
Wow, so you have the "inside" that all the political experts don't? You should sell your sources to CNN, NBC, and all the others because I'm sure they'd pay top dollar for your expert knowledge on polling.
Call me crazy, but i think, if Obama can survive the clinton smear machine, he may come out of it an even stronger candidate in the general election. McCain's talking points will have already been stolen from him. When he starts to scream "Reverend wright..., ahem bitter..., ahem Rezko..." Many people will yawn. Been there. Done that. "What else ya got, John?"
I read all about Reverend Wright well before it became public and you are correct. This stuff was going to hit Obama at some point. It was not if he was going to get hit but when. Unfortunately all those super delegates who didn't do their homework are stuck with Obama at this point.....and down goes the ship.
Yeah, Obama and Dukakis, what an insightful comparison, I've only heard 10 different talking heads claim the same thing over the past two weeks. Or McGovern (http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=ec466d61-a900-414c-8daf-16ff27ccf85c) for that matter. I've even heard adlai stevenson. Can't we all come together as a country and decide once and for all what failed democratic candidate Obama is most analogous to? My pick is James M. Cox.
McCain winning New York or California? I haven't seen many polls that would suggest that. Your anecdotal evidence is fascinating though. These are some of the most pro-choice states in the union, they aren't voting republican. Plus I'm not sure if you've heard of this issue called the Iraq war. Its very unpopular in both states.
Then how is it that both States went to Clinton...the candidate who voted to fund the war? Don't kid yourself. And since when are we relying on polls anymore? Hasn't this primary taught anyone anything about the polls. People tell polsters one thing, and do something completely different in the booth.
If you went back to your Poli Sci class you would see that Virginia has taken a hard turn towards the Democratic Party because of the boom in the northern part of the state in the DC suburbs. Obama will make Virginia a state in play, and if Obama and Warner do some campaigning together I think they both could take the state. I think Warner is a shoe in, but Obama can also win.
Also, it should be, "OK, now you're just on crack.".
At least you had the decency to back up your statements with some analysis that sounds intelligent even though it probably won't pan out that way. I can live with "a State in play". That is more accurate than saying Obama WILL win Virginia. Virginia is still the South last time I checked.
Well, I'm sure you haven't seen any of these polls as they don't exist...all have Obama facing off against McCain much better than Clinton. It's been that way for some time. Gauco is talking out of his/her ass without facts.
Well I can see the abundance of facts you back your position up with. Lets see these polls.
i wouldn't consider ten points, with only two candidates, a thumping. Its a solid win, but not a thumping. Furthermore, it wasn't actually a full ten points. About nine actually. Also, when you consider her lead ther was once apx. 30 points, just a few short weeks ago, a 9 point win seems even less like a thumping.
Don't all jump on the messenger. These were John King's words. Not mine. The point was lost.
Step #1: Turn on any tv (it doesn't even have to be HD)
Step #2: Turn to any news station (NBC, CNN, ABC, hell...even Foxnews.
Step #3: Listen
For more savvy types...
Step #1: Purchase newspaper
Step #2: Read front page, political section.
Step #3: Understand what percentages mean.
Ah because the media is never wrong and would never lie to you. Typical Obama supporter. if you seriously think any mock poll between the democratic candidate and McCain has any relevance in April BEFORE the democrats have even selected a candidate and the issue of running mates is not decided, then you are the one talking out your arse. Keep watching TV kid.
Ah because the media is never wrong and would never lie to you. Typical Obama supporter. if you seriously think any mock poll between the democratic candidate and McCain has any relevance in April BEFORE the democrats have even selected a candidate and the issue of running mates is not decided, then you are the one talking out your arse. Keep watching TV kid.
So what the hell do you base your brilliant assessment on? Don't get me wrong, I take the media with a grain of salt but I take them to be a little more accurate than a guy who "knows people" on message board.
Secondly, let me ask you as an apparent expert. How can Clinton win? I will support that cold hearted bitch if she aligns the stars and makes everything right in the world and wins this thing because I don't want McCain winning this shit, but the numbers don't exactly work for her. Even after PA she hasn't picked up A/ONE super delagate (oh and that pesky Obama has). Even if she wins Indiana she'll lose any (regular) delegates she may have picked up in North Carolina.
Tread water as long as you want Clinton, the only thing it will cost you is a ton of money, and whatever respect you still may have.
First of all this is a very old thread. Pennsylvania is old news. Did i say Clinton was going to win? No. Never said it. Never said it was not a long shot. But I am tired of all the Obamites on here demanding that she roll over because it's more convenient for them. The reality is you still have to win and if it's not convenient for the party then too fucking bad. That's what you get when you stab people in the back as many people did to the Clintons. This whole campaign is just another exercise in the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot by nominating the wrong person.....again. Look i was never a Clinton lover myself. I actually worked on another Democrats campaign in 1992. But.....he did manage to deliver the White House to the Democrats twice and think that deserves a little if not alot of loyalty. So...fuck em. On to the Convention. Bring your calculators.
First of all this is a very old thread. Pennsylvania is old news. Did i say Clinton was going to win? No. Never said it. Never said it was not a long shot. But I am tired of all the Obamites on here demanding that she roll over because it's more convenient for them. The reality is you still have to win and if it's not convenient for the party then too fucking bad. That's what you get when you stab people in the back as many people did to the Clintons. This whole campaign is just another exercise in the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot by nominating the wrong person.....again. Look i was never a Clinton lover myself. I actually worked on another Democrats campaign in 1992. But.....he did manage to deliver the White House to the Democrats twice and think that deserves a little if not alot of loyalty. So...fuck em. On to the Convention. Bring your calculators.
Well you know what, I can honestly say I at least respect that kind of response. I took you/saw you a little bit different that what I should and I apologize.
I for one "like" Bill Clinton. I may not be as big of a fan as the rest, but I respect him to some degree. I cannot say the same for his wife. I will support her if she somehow pulls this off...it still blows my mind how anyone voting in the primaries would go to the "other side" if the other guy/girl wins but you know what...it's not surprising. The system, the people are fucked up.
Well you know what, I can honestly say I at least respect that kind of response. I took you/saw you a little bit different that what I should and I apologize.
I for one "like" Bill Clinton. I may not be as big of a fan as the rest, but I respect him to some degree. I cannot say the same for his wife. I will support her if she somehow pulls this off...it still blows my mind how anyone voting in the primaries would go to the "other side" if the other guy/girl wins but you know what...it's not surprising. The system, the people are fucked up.
Comments
Right on here. Obama is Dukakis 2.
Obama is going to take Virginia???? Ok now your just on crack.
McCain has a very good chance of beating Obama in California and possibly New York. Lots of pissed of Clinton supporters here in my State, and there are alot of them, are going to jump ship. Further Obama has lost almost every state with a large Latino population and that certainly wont change in November.
Wow, so you have the "inside" that all the political experts don't? You should sell your sources to CNN, NBC, and all the others because I'm sure they'd pay top dollar for your expert knowledge on polling.
Wow, post explosion.
Yeah, Obama and Dukakis, what an insightful comparison, I've only heard 10 different talking heads claim the same thing over the past two weeks. Or McGovern (http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=ec466d61-a900-414c-8daf-16ff27ccf85c) for that matter. I've even heard adlai stevenson. Can't we all come together as a country and decide once and for all what failed democratic candidate Obama is most analogous to? My pick is James M. Cox.
McCain winning New York or California? I haven't seen many polls that would suggest that. Your anecdotal evidence is fascinating though. These are some of the most pro-choice states in the union, they aren't voting republican. Plus I'm not sure if you've heard of this issue called the Iraq war. Its very unpopular in both states.
Well, I'm sure you haven't seen any of these polls as they don't exist...all have Obama facing off against McCain much better than Clinton. It's been that way for some time. Gauco is talking out of his/her ass without facts.
If you went back to your Poli Sci class you would see that Virginia has taken a hard turn towards the Democratic Party because of the boom in the northern part of the state in the DC suburbs. Obama will make Virginia a state in play, and if Obama and Warner do some campaigning together I think they both could take the state. I think Warner is a shoe in, but Obama can also win.
Also, it should be, "OK, now you're just on crack.".
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
Originally Posted by callen
Clinton won the support of the following:
Non-college educated
older 61%
made up their minds last minute and had ABC debate influence
Gun owners
Catholics
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/04/...ary/index.html
Not at all. However, I think that the Obama campaign projects an image of thinking it, too, sums up PA this way. So long as the Obama campaign continues to apparently sneer at the above groups, it will continue to not be able to slam dunk anyone. With Hillary being as roundly disliked as she is, he should have blown her away. Instead, it will come down to the convention floor.
Being not entirely dull, however, I read that the Obama campaign plans to "fine-tune" itself--it will now emphasize Mr. Obama's humble origins as it realizes that without the working class, non-college educated people, old people, Catholics, etc., he won't be very competitive against McCain in the fall. So, we're going to get a manufactured love fest designed to persuade the chaff that they are valued after all. I'm already getting teary thinking of the mother's day ad he'll run where he gives kindly older women flowers and hugs since he no longer has his own mother to honor.
Does anyone know how many contests Billary has won by 60-40?? More than 2??
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Percentage-wise, that is a thumping.
Delegate-wise, not so much.
for the least they could possibly do
i wouldn't consider ten points, with only two candidates, a thumping. Its a solid win, but not a thumping. Furthermore, it wasn't actually a full ten points. About nine actually. Also, when you consider her lead ther was once apx. 30 points, just a few short weeks ago, a 9 point win seems even less like a thumping.
Thank you. I didn't want to bother explaining it.
Another habit says its long overdue
Another habit like an unwanted friend
I'm so happy with my righteous self
Call me crazy, but i think, if Obama can survive the clinton smear machine, he may come out of it an even stronger candidate in the general election. McCain's talking points will have already been stolen from him. When he starts to scream "Reverend wright..., ahem bitter..., ahem Rezko..." Many people will yawn. Been there. Done that. "What else ya got, John?"
This is probably true to an extent. Hillary will out Bush/Rove McCain. However, since right now its Dem v Dem, Fox and talk radio don't really know what to do. They'll be there to help McCain during the general.
since when is cnn the voice of the people??
"Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore
"i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
~ed, 8/7
wait and see
I read all about Reverend Wright well before it became public and you are correct. This stuff was going to hit Obama at some point. It was not if he was going to get hit but when. Unfortunately all those super delegates who didn't do their homework are stuck with Obama at this point.....and down goes the ship.
Then how is it that both States went to Clinton...the candidate who voted to fund the war? Don't kid yourself. And since when are we relying on polls anymore? Hasn't this primary taught anyone anything about the polls. People tell polsters one thing, and do something completely different in the booth.
At least you had the decency to back up your statements with some analysis that sounds intelligent even though it probably won't pan out that way. I can live with "a State in play". That is more accurate than saying Obama WILL win Virginia. Virginia is still the South last time I checked.
Well I can see the abundance of facts you back your position up with. Lets see these polls.
Don't all jump on the messenger. These were John King's words. Not mine. The point was lost.
Step #1: Turn on any tv (it doesn't even have to be HD)
Step #2: Turn to any news station (NBC, CNN, ABC, hell...even Foxnews.
Step #3: Listen
For more savvy types...
Step #1: Purchase newspaper
Step #2: Read front page, political section.
Step #3: Understand what percentages mean.
Ah because the media is never wrong and would never lie to you. Typical Obama supporter. if you seriously think any mock poll between the democratic candidate and McCain has any relevance in April BEFORE the democrats have even selected a candidate and the issue of running mates is not decided, then you are the one talking out your arse. Keep watching TV kid.
So what the hell do you base your brilliant assessment on? Don't get me wrong, I take the media with a grain of salt but I take them to be a little more accurate than a guy who "knows people" on message board.
Secondly, let me ask you as an apparent expert. How can Clinton win? I will support that cold hearted bitch if she aligns the stars and makes everything right in the world and wins this thing because I don't want McCain winning this shit, but the numbers don't exactly work for her. Even after PA she hasn't picked up A/ONE super delagate (oh and that pesky Obama has). Even if she wins Indiana she'll lose any (regular) delegates she may have picked up in North Carolina.
Tread water as long as you want Clinton, the only thing it will cost you is a ton of money, and whatever respect you still may have.
Well you know what, I can honestly say I at least respect that kind of response. I took you/saw you a little bit different that what I should and I apologize.
I for one "like" Bill Clinton. I may not be as big of a fan as the rest, but I respect him to some degree. I cannot say the same for his wife. I will support her if she somehow pulls this off...it still blows my mind how anyone voting in the primaries would go to the "other side" if the other guy/girl wins but you know what...it's not surprising. The system, the people are fucked up.
Oh well. Sorry to be a dick in early threads.
No one gets hurt here...